25 year old and 30 year old boys still at home.

[Michael G]

I need help in the worst way.
let me give you. Little of my past first. I am 54 years old and married to a wonderful woman.
We have been married for 33 years. I came from a very abusive home if you would ever call it a home lol.

My father was a severe alcoholic and my mother was a enabler and very passive to all the torment that accrued on an hour by hour basis.
there was no love in our house myself and my brothers and sisters all 6 of us and our mentally retarded brother were nervier accepted as siblings. We were mouths to feed and consumers that kept my parents miserable and broke,in sight of all of this I had many emotional problems through out my life.
I somehow managed to find a women to marry me and we had a child the first year of marriage, I said to myself I will break this chain that bound me with my own children ,well after many years and three children later the family curse continues, my oldest son who is the middle child is 30 years old this April 5 and has lived at home now for the third time since he moved out at 17. He has two childern by two different moms and he is not with any of them,long story.....to get to the point he uses bathsalts alcohol,and anything else he can get. We have heard promise after promise on how he is going to get his life together but to no avail. He has stolen from my bank account and also most all of my possessions .
He pay nothing to live with us and even eats us out of house and home.
I have been threatened by him several occasions and have had the police at my house weekly. I know what most of you all are thinking.....throw him on the street. I cannot bring myself to do this and my wife and I are on our last nerve. To make matters even worse my 25 year old son still lives at home also but he is straight with no vices except he refuses to pay or do anything to help out around the house. This kid has no heart and no respect for no one. My wife and I are constantly being screamed at and told that it's are responsibility to raise him because he is our child. I have panic disorder and p.t.s.syndrome and feel like taking my life to escape this torcher . My whole life has been h-ll please help.

 

[DaisyFace]

Hello and welcome!

If you are seriously contemplating suicide then please PLEASE call 911 or the Suicide Prevention Hotline at 1-800-273-8255.

 

[Signorina]

Michael, my heart broke when I read your post. Welcome to the board, but I am so sorry you needed to find us.

I realize that you know in your head that you need to remove your elder son from your home, but that the loving father inside of you can't bear the thought of him living on the street. You see your younger son living a clean life yet having no respect for you as parents and as homeowners. You wonder how a man - YOU - with such good intentions who worked hard to raise his sons well ended up where you are today. You were the father you wish you had and your kids don't acknowledge it and it didn't make them turn out well. I think all of us here understand that frustration. You parents treated you miserably and now your kids are taking over where they left off.

My husband and I were raised in volatile households and vowed our home would be peaceful. And it is most of the time. However, in our efforts to keep the peace, we have often placated situations - especially with our difficult child (difficult child is a board term for our difficult child - aka a"gift from god'). I thought we were doing the wise thing...until I ended up posting a similar plea for help on my 1st visit here in August. What I've since learned, is that by placating our situation AND my 19 yo son(difficult child), I handed him the control. Peace is nice - but not peace at any price...and both my h and I were paying the price. The more we placated, the more entitled and less respectful he became. Sure, common sense tells us he should have been grateful and appreciative - but just the opposite happened. I don't know why. But that's the way it goes.

My guess is that you know your older son needs to be OUT. But you're not ready. That's OK. Posting here is a good first step. Changing the behaviors (yours not his) of 30 years isn't an overnight thing. It's like eating an elephant; do it one bite at a time. I do not attend Al Anon, but many board members do and they find it very valuable. I think with your history of parents who were addicts and now a son who is an addict -- you will find great comfort and lots of help in Al Anon or a similar program. So please take that second step!

You are 54 years old and with the woman you love. Life is too short to live with people who are abusive and out of control. I would work first on getting your 30 year old son out and then on your younger son. My guess is that your younger son mimics his brother's disrespectful behavior because he can. Your older son is setting the tone for your household and it is really time you regained control. Not just of your home but of your life!

So many of us here had to take a stand with our adult children and ask them to leave. Not a single one of us did it easily or without tears and without regret. We all wish it could be different and making our kids leave was an incredible, wrenching heartbreak. Yet, one by one we have all noticed that our homes are now free of the day by day, minute by minute havoc and tension that our difficult child's created. I hate having my difficult child gone, but I hated having him here even more. The fantasy of a respectful, adult child sharing our home with us is just a fantasy. I couldn't make that happen no matter how hard I tried! Eventually, I had to let him go. He wouldn't change; so I had to.

Again, welcome to the board.

 

[toughlovin]

Michael,

I hope you if you haven't found an alanon meeting you will find one soon. Many of us here have kids with major substance abuse problems and have had to take various difficult steps to stop enabling them. It is a process to get to that point... but you and your wife need support for yourselves as you deserve to have peace in your own home.

I suggest you try different alanon meetings until you find one that feels right to you, the one I found is specifically for parents and it has been a huge help to me.

TL

 

[InsaneCdn]

Is it possible for an adult child to live at home and have it work? Sure. I was one of those. Didn't leave home until I was in my mid-20s.
BUT. While I did not contribute money to the home - by agreement - I did over half of running the house. Mom wasn't well, younger (very difficult child) brothers still around, lots to do. I pulled my weight around the place, in return for board and room - a win-win situation.

in my opinion - the only way an adult child should ever still be at home, is if it can be a win-win situation. That applies to both of your sons. It doesn't matter whether their lives are reasonably intact or off the rails. It either works for everybody, or it doesn't work at all.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Michael,
Welcome. I'm so very sorry for all the trouble you and your wife are going through. There are many experienced and helpful people on this board who I am sure will offer you good counsel.
It seems like you are a very caring father, who survived a miserable childhood. I know you don't want your children to feel the abandonment and abuse you endured as a child, but unfortunately, your sons are exploiting your good intentions and are holding you and your wife hostage in your own home. Bath salts are extremely dangerous, and can cause violence and hallucinations. Your substance abusing son is emotionally and physically abusing you, and stealing from you. Your other son may not be a substance abuser, but he verbally abuses you and your wife, and contributes nothing to the household. By allowing this to occur, you are fostering an environment of abuse and telegraphing to your sons that this is OK.
You have so many things to work out; have you gone for therapy at all, or would you consider it? You need to find your sanity and your strength so you can be the rightful head of your household. Your kids are running the show in your own home. If you live in an apartment, as opposed to a home, could you and your wife just move out - the two of you? Could you stay with a relative just for a short while, just to be safe? Would you consider getting your locks changed, or would that enrage your son even more? You need to get you and your wife to safety, as physical abuse only escalates. Whatever they say to make you feel bad, or to make you feel responsible is uncalled for and a total manipulation. Children are to respect and honor their parents - no matter what. They will use you until you have nothing left, and that will not change their behavior, or help them one bit in the long run. I'm not kidding - I would get an order of protection and go far, far away. They are, I'm sure, bigger and stronger than you are, and your older son has already been violent. You are not doing him or your other son any favors by being patient - you are in danger and must protect yourself and your wife.

 

[BusynMember]

Michael...I know this sounds unloving, but it's not.

Both of your boys need to leave home and survive on their own so you can get some peace with your lovely wife. No child over 21 should live at home and not pay rent or do nothing around the house. The 30 year old is dangerous. He needs to either sink or swim.

I am sorry you are going through this, but you do them both no good by letting them stay there and feeling like jumping off a cliff. You are a very special person quite apart from your children, and you have a special woman to share yourself with. It is time your boys grew up and it is time for you to enjoy your life. You can not control or help your grown children any longer. (((Hugs)))

 

[PatriotsGirl]

Welcome!! You have gotten some pretty great advice here and I echo what everyone else has said. They are too old to still be living in your home, sponging off of you. While they are still allowed to do this, they will not grow up. Why should they? Life is sooo much easier this way for them. They have absolutely no motivation to change a thing. It is going to be hard, yes. But, the best things we can do for our children are sometimes the hardest...

 

[gottaloveem]

Michael, I am sorry you are struggling. You and your wife deserve a quiet peaceful existence. You raised your children and now it is your turn to enjoy each other and life.

I met somebody once who could not get her adult children to leave or pay rent. ( I don't know if substance abuse was involved) Regardless, the only way out she saw was to move out. That is exactly what she did, she left her adult children to take care of the house and got an apartment. The adult children at that point stepped up to the bat and paid the bills. LOL.

I realize it is not an answer for everybody, but I did think it was a clever idea.

I hope coming here on this board brings you the help and support you are looking for.

Love,
Lia

 

[Giulia]

No child over 21 should live at home and not pay rent or do nothing around the house. The 30 year old is dangerous. He needs to either sink or swim.

The only thing I could say was I was neither able to study/work, nor able to do anything around the house until the age of 25. Proper diagnosis and proper treatment made the whole difference.
The only thing I could do around the house was searching and trying to find the right treatment for myself, in order to live and not survive.

What you said hurted me.
So, if I understood well what you said, my mommy should have made me go away because "I didn't study/work nor doing anything around the house" ?
Here, mental health is like Middle Ages. Having the diagnosis and treatment for ADHD as an adult is next to impossible where I live, let alone the right care. When I was a child, same story, even more difficult to get the proper diagnosis and treatment.
We needed 5 years to get this diagnosis and treatment for me.
In the meantime, antipsychotic were not having therapeutic effects and I had quite a bunch of side effects, some of them were awful.

You have little services for people with mental health. But here where I live, it is even worse.
So families are, more often than not, left out with their child in need for care.
These persons, especially children, are not only rarely able to help themselves, but they also don't often obtain the help they really need. When they obtain help, it's a very partial help and even, not helpful at all.
I cannot not mention it.

In a few words, my ADHD was so debilitating that working/studying and helping around the house were not an option. I wish it were an option, but it was not actually.
And I was not lacking will to get help, I just didn't receive the help I was needed. As simple as that.

Of course, substance abuse were not in the middle (it was enough complicated like that without substance abuse, let alone if substance abuse were involved !!).

It happened for me to be very unstable. Hurting mom sometimes, verbal garbage, anxiety ++++. I of course called psychiatrist when it happened (or going to GP), but it didn't mean that I still had the right medical care (they did what they could, but they didn't know if it were chicken or eggs).

I still remember my ex boyfriend telling me that mom should make me go out because I wanted to profit from her. It still hurts now.


I am expecting to be lashed out and considered "the nasty difficult child". Do whatever you want at this point.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Giulia - allowing for differences in medical systems is important. North America... ADHD is not normally difficult to get help for. But... I'm assuming you were not threatening your parents? You had your problems, but lived at home "under mutual terms of agreement", right? If your "job" was to look after yourself and that was the agreement... then I don't have a problem with the situation. But it still has to work for all the adults involved... whatever the terms.

 

[PatriotsGirl]

I won't lash out at you. I can only say that I have had severe ADD - which still affects me today. However, I still managed to move out on my own, get a job that didn't require much but serving drinks and went to college. Today I am a successful Accountant with severe ADHD. I can multi-task with the best of them!. I do not take any medications.

I often feel that people use an ADHD diagnosis as a crutch. So many people with ADD and ADHD are very, very successful people.

I am not saying that you are using it as a crutch. I have absolutely no idea what you have gone through growing up and what you go through today. I am sure there are exceptions to the rule. But, I do agree with MWMom. At that age, you should really be self supporting or at least able to help around the house. Helping with the cooking and cleaning don't require much...

 

[Giulia]

Insane, I could threaten when very unstable. We then dealt with my psychiatrist. Some addon therapy. It was helpful somehow, but still not enough to get stable and functional.

Here, in France, obtaining help for ADHD for children is very difficult, next to impossible for an adult. It's not like we could obtain help easily, not at all. When you can get help easily, it's one thing. But when you really darn can't get the right help, or only after extreme efforts, what do we do then ?
If we could obtain easily a help, things would have been completely different. I would had been able to do more, even helping more at home, or studying, or working. More functional. Not only stable, but also functional.

Before telling what I quoted, we have to be extra careful. Not every place has the possibility to purpose help for pathology like these (and Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) is the typical topic in France about such a problem, families left alone without the help they truly need, often told that they caused their child's illness. We were more or less in the same place with my ADHD).
In this kind of situation, you cannot realistically ask a parent to kick out their young adult. Not only it would be inhuman, but also it's absolutely not realistic at all.
As I often say, "we need a village to raise a child with disability". What do we do when the parents are left without the village ?

 

[Tiredof33]

I grew up in poverty the oldest of 6 and an alcoholic father I never liked, so I also wanted so much more for my children. And in my opinion I tried very hard, but, you never know what THEY think.

I married young and the father was not around very long. When we met in high school he was nothing like he turned 3 years into our marriage. Looking back now I think drugs were a huge problem.

My daughter had a serious brush with the law that literally scared her straight. Nothing scares my son, he doesn't learn from his bad experiences. He is in one bad relationship after another.

He started drugs at a very young age and has been in many programs, 2 court ordered rehabs. I tried tough love and it only made him worse. He stole everything from me and helped his friends still from me. I was lucky to get a transfer 20 miles away from him. After 20 years single I met a wonderful man, no one wanted to get into a relationship with the **** my son was pulling!

Recently at 33 yo he quit his job to go to school full time. He was on the Dean's List, but who did he think was going to support him?? The 37yo he was livng with was the worse yet. I met her 1 time in 2 years and I had to call the police to stop he harrassment.

They party alot, fight a lot, he threatens suicide and cuts himself. He (and her) were conning me for about 4 months and I fell for it. Then she tried to kill him and she was sent to detox and he was kicked out.

As much as it hurt I deserve a better life and he may be like this for the rest of his life. That is his choice. You are not talking about young boys in your household, they are adults. You are at an age where you should be planning for retirement, not still supporting grown men. You can not make your sons go for any kind of treatment and you will not be informed, or involved unless they want you to. Read through the posts on this forum and you will read of the frustration of parents trying to help their adult children.

This book is free online and was the first I read and it has helped me a lot. Any book you read and any counselor is going to tell you to get them out of your house, they have to learn to support themselves. All will tell you to detach and let them love their lives. Mine may be homeless at this point, but that is his choice!
http://www.support4change.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=131&Itemid=177
(((blessings for us all)))

 

[DaisyFace]

In this kind of situation, you cannot realistically ask a parent to kick out their young adult. Not only it would be inhuman, but also it's absolutely not realistic at all.

Careful!

Remember that we are advising a parent how to handle feeling as though he and his wife are hostages in his own home....

It is NOT inhuman to ask a man to start acting like a man. Especially since his parents no longer have any control over his choices. His parents may not force him into treatment - his parents may not speak to doctors or rehab centers on his behalf. At the ages of 25 and 30 these MEN really need to start handling their own lives - for better or for worse.

 

[Giulia]

I won't lash out at you. I can only say that I have had severe ADD - which still affects me today. However, I still managed to move out on my own, get a job that didn't require much but serving drinks and went to college. Today I am a successful Accountant with severe ADHD. I can multi-task with the best of them!. I do not take any medications.

I often feel that people use an ADHD diagnosis as a crutch. So many people with ADD and ADHD are very, very successful people.

True for certain people. But not every person with ADHD can manage without medicines. I was and I am still in this case. Without medicines, I am useless, no matter how much I want to be useful.

I am not saying that you are using it as a crutch. I have absolutely no idea what you have gone through growing up and what you go through today. I am sure there are exceptions to the rule. But, I do agree with MWMom. At that age, you should really be self supporting or at least able to help around the house. Helping with the cooking and cleaning don't require much...

I can be useful at home now because I have the right treatment. Not every adult with ADHD can help at home without medicines. Not every person with ADHD can work/study without medicines. I am one of these persons.
I am happy for you that you can function without medicine, but not all adults with ADHD have this ability.

I help at home, I am able to do it because I have now the right treatment. I can manage food shopping, my laundry, feed the cats, repair triple play box (TV, Internet, telephone) and computers. After having the right kind of medicine, these chores have even quite long to master for me. I am still learning how to cook and clean up and for me, it requires much. We cannot generalize your experience nor mine to everyone.
Without medicine, I am useless.

But before 25 years old, we had no diagnosis, nor the right treatment.
I was given an antipsychotic because I desperately couldn't function without medicine, but it was absolutely not the right kind of medicine. So no, I couldn't help, nor having the success despite having all the will I could have.
And psychiatrists didn't even know what darn did I have. But attention deficit was still there, still unable neither to cook, nor to clean up.... It was so debilitating that I couldn't even read a page of a book/magazine. Not een learning chores.
Again, no one with the same diagnosis will be able to function at the same degree without medicine. I am one of these unable to properly function without medicine. There are adults who can.
But other adults can't, and it doesn't mean they are "lazy", "wanting to get profit from their parents".
It's not because you experienced success while having a severe ADHD and without medicine that all the adults with the same diagnosis will succeed without medicine like you.
Again, I am happy for your success. But we cannot be scornful for these who cannot get the same success as yours. Not everyone has the same capacities, and not everyone will succeed like you without medicine.

In my case, ADHD was so debilitating. And without medicine, it's still as debilitating to the point I am useless without medicine.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Giulia,
I understand where you're coming from; I am sure we all do. However, Michael is dealing with a substance abuser, a violent grown man, and another son who is verbally and emotionally abusive to Michael and his wife. Michael stated in his last line that he was so shattered, that he wanted to end his life. This is a man in serious trouble, who did not mention that either of his sons had a mental illness. I think in your situation, you were mentally fragile, and that's requires different consideration, particularly because you were very interested in getting help for yourself.

 

[Giulia]

Careful!

Remember that we are advising a parent how to handle feeling as though he and his wife are hostages in his own home....

It is NOT inhuman to ask a man to start acting like a man. Especially since his parents no longer have any control over his choices. His parents may not force him into treatment - his parents may not speak to doctors or rehab centers on his behalf. At the ages of 25 and 30 these MEN really need to start handling their own lives - for better or for worse.

True.

I realize that my situation is drastically different.

Still, I was and still also say that we have to be careful with generalizing our experience to the others. It's not because we have done X and it worked that it will be the same for everyone.

 

[Giulia]

Giulia,
I understand where you're coming from; I am sure we all do. However, Michael is dealing with a substance abuser, a violent grown man, and another son who is verbally and emotionally abusive to Michael and his wife. Michael stated in his last line that he was so shattered, that he wanted to end his life. This is a man in serious trouble, who did not mention that either of his sons had a mental illness. I think in your situation, you were mentally fragile, and that's requires different consideration, particularly because you were very interested in getting help for yourself.

I believe that your explanation synthesizes everything we can say.

It also can be a warning about generalizing our experience to the others. What is your opinion about ?

 

[Nancy]

Michael, as you can see many of our members have strong feelings on this matter based on their personal experiences. I am concerned for your welfare and no one should ever feel like a hostage in their own home. You need support to help you figure out the best way to handle this situation. Your sons need to be on their own so that you can begin to put your life back together. We are not responsible for our children once they reach adult age.

It is our hope that our responses are helpful to you. Please reply and let us know what is happening.

Nancy