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4 year old having trouble at preschool
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 340881" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Welcome, sorry you need us. </p><p></p><p>You've already tried two pre-schools, so I agree, you need to move towards getting him assessed. I think the teachers are being a bit simplistic on maturity angles though - just because there are younger kids there, doesn't mean that he is automatically more mature. I get really cranky with teachers who equate maturity with chronological age.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>My first thought as I read your post, was - what is the difference between the previous child care, and the current pre-school placement?</p><p>Part of that question is rhetorical - we all know that a big difference, is the beginning of much stronger expectations. The change from what he was used to, to what is now increasingly expected of him, could be one trigger factor for him. He's been in child care for years now and been happy. Now he's somewhere where they want him to do more, to conform more and be a bit more personally responsible. He's picked up on this change and resents it. Anyway, that's one possible thought.</p><p></p><p>And of course, the other one is - you are in a pattern of giving him plenty of support with transitions. In pre-school they may be expecting him to transition a lot better than this, and this could also be triggering problems.</p><p></p><p>It is natural for pre-school to do this. It is, after all, preparation for "big" school where there will be even more expectations of personal responsibility and ability to transition. They are doing their job. But it has shown up these problems in sharp relief.</p><p></p><p>You do bend over a long way to give him support - this tells me you are plugged into him more than a lot of others in his world. Perhaps more than you realise. That is going to be useful for you, but it could be why you feel blindsided now. </p><p></p><p>You mention he's fussy about his food and puts ketchup on everything - that also can be indicative of a number of things, but Asperger's is one thing jumping out at me. A lot of what you describe would fit this. However, it's not the only possibility so you need to go for that evaluation.</p><p></p><p>With how to handle him, follow up on "Explosive Child" links and books. It can really help. </p><p></p><p>The problems at pre-school - have you talked to him about the changes? Asked him what it is that seems to be happening, right before he gets angry or upset? Try to talk to him with blame not on the table, and just view it as fact-finding.</p><p></p><p>The purpose of discipline is to teach that certain behaviour is unacceptable and needs to be replaced by more acceptable behaviour.</p><p>The problems here - </p><p></p><p>1) He already knows what's the right thing to do.</p><p></p><p>2) He is already motivated to do the right thing.</p><p></p><p>IN which case - punishment to teach these two things and discourage bad behaviour are not needed and will therefore be ineffective.</p><p></p><p>The bad behaviour is continuing. Why, if he is already aware of what is wring, and motivated to be good?</p><p></p><p>The answer is obvious - he is not able to control his actions at the time of transgression. In other words - it is either impulse control, or he is easily enraged and loses control he had previously. Punishment is only going to make him feel bad about himself, because it's basically punishing him when he can't control the behaviours, so it is only going to increase his stress (increasing his likelihood of blowing up) and make him feel less confident and also "a naughty child who is basically a bad kid".</p><p>You say he is not basically a bad kid. But how does HE feel about himself? And how does he feel about what is happening?</p><p></p><p>I'm not saying that he is right or should control what is going on (although he may want more control!) but listening to what he has to say about it, could give you a lot of clues about what is going on in his head.</p><p></p><p>The assessment - even if his speech is great, it wouldn't hurt to get a thorough speech pathology assessment to identify exactly what, how, where etc his language is at. Similarly - Occupational Therapist (OT) would help, with the sensory issues because food faddishness can often be sensory. So can bedwetting. Although from your description, the house move may have been a contributing factor here. But there could be more to it.</p><p></p><p>Don't stress, don't panic. And remember, he's fine for you at home so you're obviously already doing a lot of things right, whatever the problem is.</p><p></p><p>Let us know how you get on. And in the meantime, keep good notes. Keep a diary on the issues, on any events and as much as you can find out about them. be careful how you question him, try to not ask leading questions. Example - don't ask, "Did you hit Jason?"</p><p>Instead, you ask, "What happened with Jason?"</p><p>If you need to prompt, you say, "I heard that Jason got hit. What can you tell me about what has been happening?"</p><p>The reason you need to be careful - if a kid senses what answer you expect, they can give you what you expect even if it's not what really happened.</p><p></p><p>Another true example - difficult child 3 had been bullied at school, a group of boys were involved. difficult child 3's friend told me that the boys had pushed difficult child 3 over. he came home with bloodied knees and insisting to me that the boys had deliberately tripped him over.</p><p>I carefully asked him what happened and got the story - difficult child 3 had been running through the playground, ran near these boys and one of them stuck his foot out and difficult child 3 fell while running, onto rocks.</p><p>I sent a note to the school, to the teacher, to try to sort out the bullying. I got a note back - difficult child 3 had been mistaken. The teacher had questioned him, said the teacher, and difficult child 3 now understood that he got it wrong. I found out that the teacher had said to difficult child 3, "Now, the boys didn't really trip you, did they? You just fell over your own feet, didn't you? You realise that because of your autism you sometimes misunderstand what is really happening."</p><p>difficult child 3's response to this - Mr S told me that I didn't really get tripped, that sometimes what I see didn't really happen. I didn't know that. I was so certain I saw John stick his foot out, but Mr S said I couldn't have."</p><p>difficult child 3's friend was silent and embarrassed. He'd also been threatened by the bullies. And the teacher - he'd just taken the easy way out, so he wouldn't have to confront the bullies' parents (who were scary people, I gather).</p><p></p><p>So always go carefully and try to avoid leading the witness.</p><p></p><p>There is so much more we can help you with, but it's best to not overload you for now. So stay in touch, let us know how it goes.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 340881, member: 1991"] Welcome, sorry you need us. You've already tried two pre-schools, so I agree, you need to move towards getting him assessed. I think the teachers are being a bit simplistic on maturity angles though - just because there are younger kids there, doesn't mean that he is automatically more mature. I get really cranky with teachers who equate maturity with chronological age. My first thought as I read your post, was - what is the difference between the previous child care, and the current pre-school placement? Part of that question is rhetorical - we all know that a big difference, is the beginning of much stronger expectations. The change from what he was used to, to what is now increasingly expected of him, could be one trigger factor for him. He's been in child care for years now and been happy. Now he's somewhere where they want him to do more, to conform more and be a bit more personally responsible. He's picked up on this change and resents it. Anyway, that's one possible thought. And of course, the other one is - you are in a pattern of giving him plenty of support with transitions. In pre-school they may be expecting him to transition a lot better than this, and this could also be triggering problems. It is natural for pre-school to do this. It is, after all, preparation for "big" school where there will be even more expectations of personal responsibility and ability to transition. They are doing their job. But it has shown up these problems in sharp relief. You do bend over a long way to give him support - this tells me you are plugged into him more than a lot of others in his world. Perhaps more than you realise. That is going to be useful for you, but it could be why you feel blindsided now. You mention he's fussy about his food and puts ketchup on everything - that also can be indicative of a number of things, but Asperger's is one thing jumping out at me. A lot of what you describe would fit this. However, it's not the only possibility so you need to go for that evaluation. With how to handle him, follow up on "Explosive Child" links and books. It can really help. The problems at pre-school - have you talked to him about the changes? Asked him what it is that seems to be happening, right before he gets angry or upset? Try to talk to him with blame not on the table, and just view it as fact-finding. The purpose of discipline is to teach that certain behaviour is unacceptable and needs to be replaced by more acceptable behaviour. The problems here - 1) He already knows what's the right thing to do. 2) He is already motivated to do the right thing. IN which case - punishment to teach these two things and discourage bad behaviour are not needed and will therefore be ineffective. The bad behaviour is continuing. Why, if he is already aware of what is wring, and motivated to be good? The answer is obvious - he is not able to control his actions at the time of transgression. In other words - it is either impulse control, or he is easily enraged and loses control he had previously. Punishment is only going to make him feel bad about himself, because it's basically punishing him when he can't control the behaviours, so it is only going to increase his stress (increasing his likelihood of blowing up) and make him feel less confident and also "a naughty child who is basically a bad kid". You say he is not basically a bad kid. But how does HE feel about himself? And how does he feel about what is happening? I'm not saying that he is right or should control what is going on (although he may want more control!) but listening to what he has to say about it, could give you a lot of clues about what is going on in his head. The assessment - even if his speech is great, it wouldn't hurt to get a thorough speech pathology assessment to identify exactly what, how, where etc his language is at. Similarly - Occupational Therapist (OT) would help, with the sensory issues because food faddishness can often be sensory. So can bedwetting. Although from your description, the house move may have been a contributing factor here. But there could be more to it. Don't stress, don't panic. And remember, he's fine for you at home so you're obviously already doing a lot of things right, whatever the problem is. Let us know how you get on. And in the meantime, keep good notes. Keep a diary on the issues, on any events and as much as you can find out about them. be careful how you question him, try to not ask leading questions. Example - don't ask, "Did you hit Jason?" Instead, you ask, "What happened with Jason?" If you need to prompt, you say, "I heard that Jason got hit. What can you tell me about what has been happening?" The reason you need to be careful - if a kid senses what answer you expect, they can give you what you expect even if it's not what really happened. Another true example - difficult child 3 had been bullied at school, a group of boys were involved. difficult child 3's friend told me that the boys had pushed difficult child 3 over. he came home with bloodied knees and insisting to me that the boys had deliberately tripped him over. I carefully asked him what happened and got the story - difficult child 3 had been running through the playground, ran near these boys and one of them stuck his foot out and difficult child 3 fell while running, onto rocks. I sent a note to the school, to the teacher, to try to sort out the bullying. I got a note back - difficult child 3 had been mistaken. The teacher had questioned him, said the teacher, and difficult child 3 now understood that he got it wrong. I found out that the teacher had said to difficult child 3, "Now, the boys didn't really trip you, did they? You just fell over your own feet, didn't you? You realise that because of your autism you sometimes misunderstand what is really happening." difficult child 3's response to this - Mr S told me that I didn't really get tripped, that sometimes what I see didn't really happen. I didn't know that. I was so certain I saw John stick his foot out, but Mr S said I couldn't have." difficult child 3's friend was silent and embarrassed. He'd also been threatened by the bullies. And the teacher - he'd just taken the easy way out, so he wouldn't have to confront the bullies' parents (who were scary people, I gather). So always go carefully and try to avoid leading the witness. There is so much more we can help you with, but it's best to not overload you for now. So stay in touch, let us know how it goes. Marg [/QUOTE]
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