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4YO Daughter diagnosis with ODD - Need advice
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<blockquote data-quote="svengandhi" data-source="post: 86479" data-attributes="member: 3493"><p>Have you looked into Asperger's Syndrome? Your daughter sounds like she meets many of the criterion, which include being very bright and verbal at a young age (my Aspie son read at 3, my gifted daughter not until 7), having trouble with transitions to the point of meltdown, having difficulty making and keeping friends, having certain, limited people or things they are interested in and obsessing over those. Another thing that struck me was your comment that she thinks it's funny when she does bad things or gets in trouble. Aspies often have difficulty reading body language and facial expression and many times what shows on their faces does not necessarily mirror the situation at hand, such as smiling when being disciplined. </p><p></p><p>Tony Atwood's book "Asperger Syndrome" is awesome or google him and go to his website to read.</p><p></p><p>The good thing is that your daughter is young enough and bright enough that if she is Aspie, she can benefit greatly from many new therapies and things you can do at home. For instance, you can show her pictures and ask her what the faces show - they make special cards for this but you can do it with magazine pictures or family photos. When she tells you what she thinks it is (for example, a picture of a girl smiling has her say "She is getting yelled at by her mommmy") talk to her about it and then show her a picture that really shows a girl getting yelled at by her mommy. Don't overload, do one emotion at a time until she gets it and then move on, afterwards you can review a few at a time. Ditto for body language - what does SHE thinks it means if someone has their arms crossed over their chest or is beckoning someone to come over? The part of their brain that analyzes emotion visually doesn't always work right but because they are smart, they can be trained and taught.</p><p></p><p>Another thing is tone of voice. Many Aspies speak in either monotone or loud shrill voices without real modulation. They don't get tone of voice. I will never forget my son in grade 4 being told by a girl "Oh, you are the most annoying person I have ever met!" I was standing right there and it was obvious from the smile on her face and the laugh in her voice that she was joking. He did not get it and said to her, quite seriously: Not only are you annoying, your new haircut is hideous!" I was wishing the floor had opened up and swallowed me whole as I comforted the little girl, who began to cry.</p><p></p><p>My son was diagnosis'ed aspie at the end of grade 8 and he now attends a special HS for kids with his type of issues. He is a senior, has his license, has peers and while all is not perfect (a child with a gifted IQ and massive intelligence will be attending community college because he doesn't want to be away from home), things are so much better. His ability to read and decipher body language and tone of voice have improved, he has friends and will fit in somewhere someday. He even got asked out by a girl last weekend!</p><p></p><p>If you want to keep her mainstream for now, Aspie is one of those cases where it's truly possible. She most likely will not need any academic help at this age. Social skills training in or out of school, a circle of friends at school, counseling, are some things you could try. If she is aspie, once you deal with that issue, her actin out behaviors, which stem from frustration, should improve dramatically. My second son's friend has an Aspie sister, who is now a HS freshman. She excels in math, has friends, plays sports and I have not seen or heard of her melting down in several years now. I see her and she is a success story so far.</p><p></p><p>Do be aware though that bright as she is, your daughter, if she is Aspie, may encounter academic issues down the road. My son read at 3, understood everything he read but even now still has difficulty with the emotions in a story. He can tell you what happened on page X in great detail but if you say to him "How did Jane Eyre feel when she learned about the lady in the attic?" he will look at you like you have ten heads and say "Why should she feel anything, it just is" He does NOT get emotions in writing either, unless they are spelled out - like in "Jane Eyre was terrified when she learned of the woman in the attic" by the way, those are not actual quotes, just paraphrases. Terrified he gets, but if it's not there in black and white, he has trouble, though again, he is improving with age and maturity. He just is one of those people who will never read fiction for enjoyment, but he loves history books.</p><p></p><p>The other academic worry is that many of these kids just partake in what they are interested in. My son loves history so he has always done well in it. Math is another story. Although he scores in the 99 percentile in ability, he has barely passed it since it bores him and he doesn't see the need to apply himself to something that doesn't interest him. Doing well in school just for the sake of doing well or even because it will benefit him in the future holds no attraction to him. The flip side of that is that peer pressure also does not faze him. He has never felt the need to conform and does not yield to peer pressure. When you have HS'ers and drugs are rampant and easily attainable, a child who doesn't care about fitting it is in some ways a blessing.</p><p></p><p>This is long I know because I wanted to share a bit about how Aspies grow and develop. When I was a kid (and I am almost 50), there were kids who were "weird" or strange and didn't always fit in. I went to a HS for gifted kids which was full of them. I wasn't one, I was just smart, and "I" didn't fit in amongst them. Years later, so many of them are now being diagnosed as adult Aspie (the diagnosis did not exist until 1994).</p><p></p><p>Good luck.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="svengandhi, post: 86479, member: 3493"] Have you looked into Asperger's Syndrome? Your daughter sounds like she meets many of the criterion, which include being very bright and verbal at a young age (my Aspie son read at 3, my gifted daughter not until 7), having trouble with transitions to the point of meltdown, having difficulty making and keeping friends, having certain, limited people or things they are interested in and obsessing over those. Another thing that struck me was your comment that she thinks it's funny when she does bad things or gets in trouble. Aspies often have difficulty reading body language and facial expression and many times what shows on their faces does not necessarily mirror the situation at hand, such as smiling when being disciplined. Tony Atwood's book "Asperger Syndrome" is awesome or google him and go to his website to read. The good thing is that your daughter is young enough and bright enough that if she is Aspie, she can benefit greatly from many new therapies and things you can do at home. For instance, you can show her pictures and ask her what the faces show - they make special cards for this but you can do it with magazine pictures or family photos. When she tells you what she thinks it is (for example, a picture of a girl smiling has her say "She is getting yelled at by her mommmy") talk to her about it and then show her a picture that really shows a girl getting yelled at by her mommy. Don't overload, do one emotion at a time until she gets it and then move on, afterwards you can review a few at a time. Ditto for body language - what does SHE thinks it means if someone has their arms crossed over their chest or is beckoning someone to come over? The part of their brain that analyzes emotion visually doesn't always work right but because they are smart, they can be trained and taught. Another thing is tone of voice. Many Aspies speak in either monotone or loud shrill voices without real modulation. They don't get tone of voice. I will never forget my son in grade 4 being told by a girl "Oh, you are the most annoying person I have ever met!" I was standing right there and it was obvious from the smile on her face and the laugh in her voice that she was joking. He did not get it and said to her, quite seriously: Not only are you annoying, your new haircut is hideous!" I was wishing the floor had opened up and swallowed me whole as I comforted the little girl, who began to cry. My son was diagnosis'ed aspie at the end of grade 8 and he now attends a special HS for kids with his type of issues. He is a senior, has his license, has peers and while all is not perfect (a child with a gifted IQ and massive intelligence will be attending community college because he doesn't want to be away from home), things are so much better. His ability to read and decipher body language and tone of voice have improved, he has friends and will fit in somewhere someday. He even got asked out by a girl last weekend! If you want to keep her mainstream for now, Aspie is one of those cases where it's truly possible. She most likely will not need any academic help at this age. Social skills training in or out of school, a circle of friends at school, counseling, are some things you could try. If she is aspie, once you deal with that issue, her actin out behaviors, which stem from frustration, should improve dramatically. My second son's friend has an Aspie sister, who is now a HS freshman. She excels in math, has friends, plays sports and I have not seen or heard of her melting down in several years now. I see her and she is a success story so far. Do be aware though that bright as she is, your daughter, if she is Aspie, may encounter academic issues down the road. My son read at 3, understood everything he read but even now still has difficulty with the emotions in a story. He can tell you what happened on page X in great detail but if you say to him "How did Jane Eyre feel when she learned about the lady in the attic?" he will look at you like you have ten heads and say "Why should she feel anything, it just is" He does NOT get emotions in writing either, unless they are spelled out - like in "Jane Eyre was terrified when she learned of the woman in the attic" by the way, those are not actual quotes, just paraphrases. Terrified he gets, but if it's not there in black and white, he has trouble, though again, he is improving with age and maturity. He just is one of those people who will never read fiction for enjoyment, but he loves history books. The other academic worry is that many of these kids just partake in what they are interested in. My son loves history so he has always done well in it. Math is another story. Although he scores in the 99 percentile in ability, he has barely passed it since it bores him and he doesn't see the need to apply himself to something that doesn't interest him. Doing well in school just for the sake of doing well or even because it will benefit him in the future holds no attraction to him. The flip side of that is that peer pressure also does not faze him. He has never felt the need to conform and does not yield to peer pressure. When you have HS'ers and drugs are rampant and easily attainable, a child who doesn't care about fitting it is in some ways a blessing. This is long I know because I wanted to share a bit about how Aspies grow and develop. When I was a kid (and I am almost 50), there were kids who were "weird" or strange and didn't always fit in. I went to a HS for gifted kids which was full of them. I wasn't one, I was just smart, and "I" didn't fit in amongst them. Years later, so many of them are now being diagnosed as adult Aspie (the diagnosis did not exist until 1994). Good luck. [/QUOTE]
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