504 information

Discussion in 'Special Ed 101 Archives' started by BIGBLUE, Oct 7, 2003.

  1. BIGBLUE

    BIGBLUE New Member

    Original Subject Line: MADDER THAN A WET HEN!!! help???

    Alisha Leigh, can you point me very quickly in the
    direction of the list of disabilities that qualify a child for 504's??? I am at work, battling with our drasted school about getting easy child under one. Diagnosed with ADD for three and a half years. On medication all three years. They dropped him from his IEP last year, stated he tested out, wouldn't do a 504 as said he didn't qualify as his disability was not impeding his learning. This year has made several f's on tests, quizzes, homework assignments etc and now has been written up for trivial behavior issues(although quote "they don't see him as a behavior problem even though they have assigned him lunch detention next 3 days dt write ups") All the while they have been informed we are makingmedication changes to STrattera that takes up to 6 weeks to see a difference. They are unwilling to make any accomodations at all. In fact are demanding homework contract etc. I AM FURIOUS!!!!!! Thanks, BLUE
     
  2. Sheila

    Sheila Moderator

    Actually Blue, there's not a "list" like with IDEA. 504 is much broader and basically consists of anything that impacts one major life activity. This link will help in that regard.

    https://web.archive.org/web/2007020...ssues/disabilityrights/resources/lmtslist.htm

    Section 504's definition of an individual with-a disability/handicap is:

    i) has a physical or mental impairment which substantially limits one or more major life activities,

    ii) has a record of such an impairment, or

    iii) is regarded as having such an impairment.

    The regs continue:

    (i) "Physical or mental impairment" means (A) any physiological disorder or condition, cosmetic disfigurement, or anatomical loss affecting one or more of the following body systems: neurological; musculoskeletal; special sense organs; respiratory, including speech organs; cardiovascular; reproductive, digestive, genito-urinary; hemic and lymphatic; skin; and endocrine; or (B) any mental or psychological disorder, such as mental retardation, organic brain syndrome, emotional or mental illness, and specific learning disabilities.

    (ii) "Major life activities" means functions such as caring for one's self, performing manual tasks, walking, seeing, hearing, speaking, breathing, learning and working.

    {iii) "Has a record of such an impairment" means has a history of, or has been misclassified as having, a mental or physical impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities.

    (iv) "Is regarded as having an impairment" means (A) has a physical or mental impairment that does not substantially limit major life activities but that is treated by a recipient as constituting such a limitation; (B) has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits major life activities only as a result of the attitudes of others toward such impairment; or (C) has none of the impairments defined in paragraph (j)(2)(i) of this section but is treated by a recipient as having such an impairment.

    (k) "Qualified handicapped person" means:

    (2) With respect to public preschool elementary, secondary, or adult educational services, a handicapped person (i) of an age during which nonhandicapped persons are provided such services (ii) of an age during which it is mandatory under state law to provide such services to handicapped persons, or (iii) to whom a state is required to provide a free appropriate public education under section 612 of the Education of the Handicapped Act; and

    This is a link with-the federal regs:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20041010200949/http://www.reedmartin.com/section504.htm

    Might want to read this also. http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/sec504.index.htm

    Sorry to hear that your school district is being so obstinate (again). Sigh....
     
  3. BIGBLUE

    BIGBLUE New Member

    Alisha, thanks this is what I was thinking about. Does a child need to have just one of the limitations on major life activities or is it enough per the way I read 504 that the documented diagnosis of ADD, which is considered a mental/nervous diagnosis be enough then? Thanks, BLUE
     
  4. DeeRW

    DeeRW Active Member

    I would seriously consider demanding that a new IEP be put in place since this is proving that he can't function without one. I learned the hard way that 504's do not have to be followed and many teachers and schools use them to simply appease parents.
     
  5. mom5

    mom5 New Member

    My son has an IEP and he is not behind academically at all. The issue with him is that he is NOT where he should be. With an IQ of 135 and 98 percentile plus on all his testing, he should be a straight A+ student, but instead he is pretty much B+ and A in what he really likes (Latin, social studies). He is failing earth science (an honors class usually taken as a regular class by high school juniors, but my son is 13 and in grade 8) due to sloppy labs (he is dysgraphic).
    I am now getting a handle with him on it.
    He gets no resource, but he is entitled to copies of notes, a second set of books for home and not to be yelled at if he appears to be inattentive.

    I basically have the IEP to protect him. Next year in HS, I will have to put teeth in it because the HW is not on the Internet there, like it is in our middle school, so there will have to be e-mailed assignments or some other means of communicating the work to me.

    If your son actually has an Learning Disability (LD), he should be getting an IEP and not a 504. Martie used to say they are not worth toilet paper (or some such) and she is right. Steve had one in grade 6 and I traded up after one teacher gave him a bad grade for NOT LOOKING AT HER IN CLASS! Mind you, he got 100 on every test and knew the answers when she called on him (she admitted she'd call on him to try and humiliate him! She went on maternity leave the next year and is not back yet!) The class grade was an A, but the 'Attitude" grade was a D, which doesn't go in the average, but if you want to run for student council, for instance, you have to have a B attitude average. Lucky for this teacher, my son does not have any political aspirations! so I didn't protest the grade as it meant nothing.

    Good luck, with your school district you will need to fight. I would however use your daughter as your trump card, as I use my difficult child with my school district. Whenever they try to deny me something for one of my other kids, I say "You do realize this child is the sibling of RYAN F? the child you permitted to be emotionally abused at the G school before we moved him, don't you?" Works like a charm, got 4 times a week Orton-Gillingham for my first grader and thrice weekly speech sessions for my 4 year old, who truthfully, barely qualified, but who needed the speech therapy anyway. Kid can't say F, which is a big problem since our last name starts with F, our street name starts with F and our house number is 44! Plus, he's kid number 5!

    Michele
     
  6. Sheila

    Sheila Moderator

    A child can qualify with just one of the three listed. (A diagnosis is not required.) Your's qualifies on all three fronts.

    The disability does have to have a negative impact on academics however.

    You can find additional info on Section 504 on my home and library pages.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20060310004605/http://www.adhd-add.info/
     
  7. BIGBLUE

    BIGBLUE New Member

    thanks guys......this is the quote from the learning support teacher I have tried to enlist help from:
    " a diagnosis of ADD does not automatically qualify a student for a 504 plan. It is necessary to demonstrate that the student's ADD has a severe impact on his academic performance to the degree that it requires significant accommodations. Accomodations, which are typical of a 504 plan, are used by all our classroom teachers, especially 7-2 team(my easy child's team). Expecting easy child to be responsible for writing his assignments down, asking the teacher to sign off each period, and relay the information home is the appropriate ACCOMMADATION(MISSPELLED) at 7th grade"!!!!!!!!!!!!! Excuse me.......this is appropriate for a child with ADD???? continued: "It is necessary for easy child to start now developing the skills he will need to manage high school. Establishing consequences for a homework/commiunication(MISSPELLED) contract can be a joint effort between the team and home. This accomodation is the primary accomodation (MEANING ONLY ONE THEY ARE OFFERING) for ADD students, and it does not require a 504 plan. Since easy child IS NOT at risk academically, the contract should help him learn to manage his assignments. and at the same time hlep him recognize the improtance of accountability".
    Oh my guys...........I have already thrown in the towel. This is the same school district that would not change my difficult child's iep classification to emotionally impaired after suicide attempt, would not help us transfer her to another hs outside the district for her last year to keep her out of the same environment that caused the suicide attempt. Same school district that wouldn't give an ESY for her, wouldn't do a simple after school program to help her with her social skills, wouldn't transport her when I found such a class and on and on. How do you all expect me to keep fighting???????? How do you expect me to expect anything more? I don't ya'll........I feel beat to death yet again. This is what this school district is good for.........beat down the parents so far that they give up.....then we're off the hook. BLUE BLUE BLUE BLUE. :frown: :frown: :frown:
     
  8. SassyGirl

    SassyGirl Active Member

    BLUE,
    I emailed you!
    Sassy
     
  9. Sheila

    Sheila Moderator

    I well remember your first difficult child and the problems you had with-this school district. Can't tell you how sorry I am that you're having to deal with-this again.

    It sounds like what you are being told is that in essence, "We don't do 504's."

    The things you describe are likely related to Executive Dysfunction. Executive Dysfunction is typically a "given" with-ADD or ADHD. It definitely adversely impacts learning. Go to www.pediatricneurology.com and read about it in the ADHD E-book -- it's free.

    I don't typically give this url out because it is a legal site designed strictly for Educators. It tends to scue info to the benefit of school districts in my opinion -- sometimes leaving out caveats that I think are important. For parents new to the terminology, requirements, etc., of IEPs and 504 some info could be misleading to a novice -- again in my opinion. What this tends to mean to me however it that it can be considered a "minimum" requirement for school districts. https://web.archive.org/web/20090224084756/http://www.504idea.org/504_eligibility.html

    Pay particular attention to the verbage "a major life activity is substantially limited when “the individual’s important life activities are restricted as to the conditions, manner or duration under which they can be performed in comparison to most people.”

    A couple of more urls that may be helpful.

    http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/edlite-FAPE504.html

    https://web.archive.org/web/20090109100522/http://os.dhhs.gov/ocr/504.html

    I don't mind telling you that I've heard this school district's argument regurgitated over and over. I understand and agree the concept that our kids have to be taught these skills. What I find is not understood however is that there is no majic age or grade when our kids "get it." In the meantime, we have to just keep trying to teach them.

    Another thing that educators tend to ignore is that kids with-ADD/ADHD are mentally about 2/3rds their age. They may have the capability to exceed academically but without appropriate supports for lack of executive functions, they won't. Every time I hear this particular agrument from a school district, I ask the committee, "Do you expect a child in a wheel chair to magically get up and walk when they hit "X" grade?" The answer is always, "No." My next question is, "Then why do you expect this student to essentially do it?"

    Frustrating.

    I wouldn't mess with-trying to work with these people -- you already know it won't do any good. I'd strongly recommend that you get an advocate well versed in IEP/Section 504 problems.
     
  10. Lizz

    Lizz New Member

    Hi.....

    Your child is entitled to a 504 plan. Period. The fact that your school district is stating that he is not becuase it is not negatively impacting his academic performance indicates their misunderstanding of the situation.

    If you son is not developing social skills or internalizing the "untaught" skills that the other kids are----shows a direct impact on area of daily living. In essence---he is not developing the organizational skills necessary for academic success.

    I believe that if he had an IEP you could include specifics so that the team would be responsible for TEACHING HIM TO BE RESPONSIBLE. by the way, I also think that it is developmentally inappropriate to expect preteen boys to be organized! The ones who are, are the exception to the rule!

    Also, as you know a student doesn't need to be failing, he only needs to demonstrate that he is having difficulty. Your school district has the opportunity to do something before he gets to HS.

    When was his last full evaluation? If he has never had one, request one now. The school cannot turn down your request. They COULD write an IEP that simp[ly addresses his inability to organize himself. Also, I think that he needs a behavior management plan. If he is being given this many suspensions this early i the school year, it will probably only get worse.

    Lizz
     
  11. BIGBLUE

    BIGBLUE New Member

    thanks again guys.........Alisha I think you probably are already aware there are absolutely NO advocates in my area. (In fact if there were anyway in the world I could quit my job now, I would do it in a heartbeat and open my own educational consulting business). So I am on my own. I KNOW that they are bullpooping me. It's just so hard to keep having to fight them over and over. Truthfully I am now thinking they are retaliating against easy child. They seem to be finding every little thing he does and documenting it. They say is "typical 7th grade" behavior, but in my opinion this is not typical of my son. So how do I fight that reasoning? I guess by having them pull out how many times he had lunch detention last year???(none!).
    Lizz, they did a full evaluation last year, at my request, wasn't really due one, as I continued to feel he had processing problems in the language arts/reading areas. However per the results they got, he tested out for an IEP(had had one for the 3 years prior). I asked at that time for at least a 504, they again balked, that since he was not showing academic problems, he didn't qualify.
    It is just the same old crap I have had to deal with for going on 8 years now. I promise you, if I could I would move our whole family out of this district in a second. Anyway as of now, we have a tentative meeting set up for next Tuesday morning( had to fight tooth and nail to get it before school, not smack dab in the middle of the day since husband and I both work). Am planning on taking easy child as I want him to hear that HE HAS to be the one to do everything according to them. I am going to ask for something in writing as to why easy child is not qualified for a 504 and also ask them to show me state statues to back that up. Anything else you all can think of. I of course will take all the info you have pointed me to, even had a pamphlet from the psychiatrist, but in the past they have not even been gracious enough to look at it, or let me speak about it. The really sad thing is that this all started because I asked them for leeway for easy child as we changed from Adderall to Strattera. BLUE
     
  12. Sara T

    Sara T New Member

    Hi Blue,

    Sorry to hear about your struggle with the school district. :frown:

    Isn't there a CAUSE office in Alabama? I had to get an advocate from a larger city about 2 1/2 hours away from me. They are doing things by telephone and mail so I don't have to drive. I too had a very hard time finding an advocate as I live in a small hick town.

    I feel for you having to deal with a school district like yours. I hope things improve.

    Sara
     
  13. BIGBLUE

    BIGBLUE New Member

    There is a group here called SEAC "Special Education Action Committee". When originally formed (and I believe was right after IDEA 97 was passed) they touted themselves as being the advocacy agent for the state as mandated by IDEA since schools received federal dollars. When I first contacted them, they were great. Had me come in with all difficult child
    s papers, IEP's, test results etc. Had a wonderful girl who was a clinical psychologist who went thru everything and found gaping holes, lots of apparent things being done out of compliance. She even went with me to two of the worse IEP meetings ever with this school district, when they denied us ESY and told us our difficult child had just had a "transistion" year and would be a freshman all over again the next year. (this after they had placed difficult child in self contained multihandicapped classroom, when we had thought she was in an Easy Child class which was really what she needed)............However now (if they are even still open, here in Alabama things are very bad with the educational budget so who knows?) they will tell you there only function is to train parents by workshops given only during day time hours of course. They no longer actively advocate. So you see how alone I am. Again why I would love to be able to do it myself. OH well. Will meet with the team next Tuesday morning. Am just going to let them tell easy child what he has to do to pass(that is get all info himself and get it home to me and then back to them) and hopefully will convince easy child it's time to move. BLUE
     
  14. Sheila

    Sheila Moderator

    Have you tried to find an educational consultant to help you and also attend school meetings?

    by the way, I checked out your state education agency's website. Either I didn't look in the right place, or information on IDEA and 504 is just not there.

    The school district should give you a Parent Rights brochure/document. What does it say the procedural safeguards are when there is a disagreement between parents and schools?

    Hope you are documenting with-follow up letters, etc. -- you may end up having to file a complaint with-Alabama Education Agency and/or OCR.
     
  15. BIGBLUE

    BIGBLUE New Member

    Alisha, there are no educational consultants here. That is the whole problem!!! And yes they have given me the procedural rights........I will file a complaint after our meeting next week. I am going to wait to see what they come up with.
    BLUE
     
  16. mom5

    mom5 New Member

    I also remember your problems with your daughter and I feel for you and your easy child. My son was offered resource room as part of his 504/IEP. The intent was to have him go there with his assignments and have the sped teacher help him organize his work. Unfortunately, the first day of grade 7 when he went to the room, the girl he likes saw him and said "Steve, why are YOU going in there? You're smart!" My son muttered something about delivering a message for another teacher and refused to ever go back. It is now a "threat" to him that if he does not do what he is supposed to, he will go back to resource room. I hate to use RR in that fashion as I feel it is a wonderful and necessary place, but even the principal agreed that making my son go was causing more problems than it cured. However, the threat of going back is motivating him!

    The good news is that my son is continuing to improve in his organizing skills each year even without attending resource or getting special help from anyone but me. Even the school personnel see a massive change from grades 6 through now (8). A large part of this is maturity and a desire to keep up with his friends, who are the brighter group in school.

    Lizz is right, a child does not have to be failing to get help. My son is far from failing, as I said before, he gets mostly B's, but it's not what HE should be doing, so therefore there is an educational impact.

    Michele

    PS - Just my 2 cents, but I would NOT bring my son to a meeting like you have planned. You can't guarantee that one of the school people would not say something hurtful or demeaning to or about him. I have never taken my child to a meeting, even though he has asked to attend. In HS, this will change as I believe the child is mandated to attend after age 14.
     
  17. Sheila

    Sheila Moderator

    Blue

    Check out easy child's evaluation reports and compare it to info in the Perceptional skills thread -- might find additional information to help with-the school district.
     
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