7yrs raging over the small things all the time.

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Matty's Mummy, Oct 2, 2011.

  1. Matty's Mummy

    Matty's Mummy Member

    7yrs old with Aspergers is angry and going off his head overthe simplest of things.
    Asking him to put a plate in the sink instead of on thebench sends him into a rage he is so mad he want to attack, he screams andyells abuse...
    I’m at a lost as to how to turn him around, he’s snappingand going off all the time into these rages.
    My daughter said tonight she worries he will hurt us andgrow up to kill someone, scary thing is his dad and I talked about this today.
  2. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    Is he on any medications for the anxiety? Did something happen at school that's bothering him? For mine this was about the age where it really started becoming apparent to her and her peers that she's "different" - more than just by her giftedness alone. That brought out some nasty frustration and angst ridden behavior.
  3. Matty's Mummy

    Matty's Mummy Member

    We are on holidays at the moment, we have been away and hewas aloud his Ds to play a lot more than usual. Playing computer games can sendhim off, but he hasn’t had it much since we have been home. My daughter issitting here with me now she is 17yrs. she said Mum, tonight the look of angryin his face was different he really scared me. I had told him he could have abeater as his sister was making a cake and he wanted to lick one... I didn’ttell her doing other things I forgot, then he seen she had cleaned them off, Isaid dont worry we can dip them in the cake mix and you can have some, but hedidn’t hear that and went off.
    It’s like the level of rage is worse and there seems he doesn’t’care after. My older son with ADHD.. would always cry after he went off and wasso sorry. This child is never sorry, I guess that is worrying me as well. hecan be loving but when he wants, but he is never sorry and it’s always theother persons fault. I know my older son would blame others and it was neverhis fault either it’s just after he would also feel sorry and talk about it. Notthe 7yrs old though, he is not sorry.
  4. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Matt's mommy, BLESS your heart! Your signature touches me so much. I can really relate to your Aspie's flying off the handle over every little thing. Though we are not in perfect shape here we are miles ahead of where we were 4 years ago when he was close to living in res. center. My familly had the same cocerns (and if I am honest, I think them sometimes too) as your daughter.
    For us here (outside of the obvious medication management) is what is helping. You may be already doing these kind of things and just ignore anything that seems to not apply. I certainly do not have magic answers....
    1. picking and choosing our battles. The Explosive Child methods really help us. I find myself starting in on every little rule broken and behavior infraction and then realize that to keep overall stress lower and his anxiety lessened (thus making him able to be more compliant overall--and making me able to make more appropriate parenting choices)....I MUST let some things go. I MUST prioritize our issues and tick them off one by one.
    Maybe, again I dont live your life but just a thought, maybe it could be appropriate for your kids to even be part of that plan...Actually deciding and making a list of, "what we are going to do to help each other be calmer". then the focus can be spread and he wont feel quite as defensive??

    2. We use the same words and methods across all settings. School, Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) (independent living skill workers who take him out in the community and work on life skills at home too), and our family time. Right now we use a color system that combines the "5 point scale" often used with kids in schools and the "how your engine runs" program used with younger kids or developmentally younger people. We have 4 color zones and made a book specifically using his emotions and coping tools. Blue zone=shut down and not very responsive (sometimes a good coping skill to become or stay calm, and sometimes an escape to avoid work). Green Zone=the target appropriate level for a situation. Actions and reactions equal to the situation (words for him are, able to follow directions, using appropriate tone of voice and words, being kind to other kids and adults, keeping hands and feet to self, etc.). Next is Yellow Zone=agitated, louder voice, using naughty words, non-injury physically inappropriate behaviors, being upset and on the way to red zone behavior...(in his case we include swearing here and eventually we will make swearing a red zone behavior, for now words are better than physical rage and injury....you tailor it to each individual child) and finally RED zone=rage, potentially dangerous behaviors like throwing things, hitting, kicking, unable to control self without extreme support). Once they are taught about these areas it becomes (and we are at this point now) as simple as saying you need to get into green. For kids who are set off by verbal input, you can have little color cards hooked together and just hold up the target card. (may show a yellow and say you are here....you need to be here---hold up green OR just hold up the green card) we tell everyone to be prepared to hear him say...I dont care about the dumb zones, I wont be in green etc....(or much more colorful language) but we dont argue and add threats of punishment we just give him time to settle. He nearly always does. Rare that anything goes beyond 5-15 minutes which can seem like a lifetime when a child is in RED zone)
    difficult child is actually using the zone terms himself to describe his state and using to argue for why he should be able to do things. IE "I'm in green and I promise to stay there if I can go play nerf guns with the other kids). His doctors have the color cards too and they use the words with him too.
    Of course it is not fool proof and there are seizure days (his trigger behavior issues) or bad health days or days when he is sooooo worried about something, or even so excited about something (like a school activity he wants to attend after school, he will blow it every time because his mind is too preoccupied to be able to stay on track, I dont let anyone threaten he can't go anymore because he was not getting to go to anything)
    I believe the Occupational Therapist (OT) that developed this now has it published, and I am sorry I dont know the name of it at this time but I will check. send me a pm if you want the info. I like it better than the 5point scale that I even used personally for years at my work because it is more clear, and it has the blue zone which separates out the shut down kinds of states. It can help them express when they are tired or ill or sad/depressed etc.
    It may seem like this is too developmentally "low" for a high functioning child but turns out it is really good especially for the higher IQ kids that become almost out of control due to their stress and anxiety issues/behavioral challenges. you can give a quicker, more specific cue in a way that reduces embarrassment in more public settings.

    3. We are lucky to have Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) time and he is out of the home for most of it. I get a break. Others use respite or PCA or getting a sitter or mentor. Again, if overall stress in our home is lower, I do a better job supporting him. Dont know if you have ssi or some kind of county support for him to get pca, Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) or personal support kinds of services. There are other terms but it is worth asking if you dont already have these things. Some private insurance covers pca services and/or respite. He could be eligible for a cadi waiver or some kind of funding and it is not connected to qualifying for public assistance, it is based on his disability needs. Some programs require sliding scale parent fees.
    Funding is tight and there are long waiting lists in states and counties that do have these programs (though there are usually emergency slots) but it is worth signing up because the waivers are often life long (if they continue to qualify) so it is worth getting on waiting lists. Eventually the monies can be used for job training and support for their living situations.

    hope any of this helps or triggers other ideas that may work, even if not please know i understand and I am thinking of you.
  5. buddy

    buddy New Member

    I suspect that this is all or in part is because he has Aspergers. All of this is just "in general" here so not trying to make all people sound alike. One common thing among all folks on the autism spectrum including Asperger's is that they just have a hard time taking another person's perspective/point of view. If you can't do that well then it is hard to feel sorry or even genuinely happy for another person. It is not the same as someone who is anti-social in a psychotic or just a "mean" kind of way....it is a skill deficit of sorts. They care for people but just dont understand.
    We still teach them to say sorry but it is a social function to help them get along in society, at work, etc. Something they learn to do by rote (when this or this happens you say sorry so things can calm down and move on). We can never teach our kids to actually feel sorry. My son actually said to his Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker yesterday...(after her saying, "do you have anything to say for what happened?") "R?, Is it ok if I just tell you sorry, but I dont really mean it?" He will ask the same question when he is to say thank you or other kinds of social terms. It does make things harder because the whole world revolves around them. I personally am never worried that it means my son is going to become a criminal that hurts people. He WANTS to have friends and does care about people, just can't feel how they feel and doesn't register the feelings that non Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) folks might feel.
    Does that make any sense? Just MHO....
  6. Matty's Mummy

    Matty's Mummy Member

    thanks it's 1am here i'm off to bed. just wanted to say I do pick my battles with him just at the moment it's everything! even just talking to him or trying to. I said to him tonight he has 10mins till teeth brushing time, before I could finish he was going off his yead. he then came out wanting to rip down the poster I made today for the week, daily schedual... he took it off the wall, when I tol dhim to put it back and he did, I knew he was not out of control cause he could hear me and he didnt' distroy it. Yes I think I worry deep inside that there is more going on.
  7. Matty's Mummy

    Matty's Mummy Member

    yep makes sense I get this, i'm sure I'll still worry though, part of my problem. ;-) thanks again.
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I think more is going on too. Although my son doesn't represent everyone on the spectrum and has the typical rigidity traits and dislike of change or transitioning, etc. but he would NEVER harm anyone. And he does have a guilty conscience when he does something wrong. Very much so. He is never violent. Most Aspie kids I know are far easier to manage.

    I would be looking at what else may be going on.

    Sorry it's so hard. I feel badly for both of you!
  9. Matty's Mummy

    Matty's Mummy Member

    well he has changed that is for sure if this was his regular self I wouldn't be as concerned. this morning firt day back at school was not good.
  10. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Just a bit of a brain twist here...
    What happens if we (temporarily, theoretically...) ignore the Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) diagnosis.

    School gets harder every year.
    Unidentified - and therefore unsupported/unaccommodated/unmedicated/etc. - challenges can really bring out the worst in ANY kid.
    What I'm thinking here is... not sure when the last round of testing/evaluations was done, but 7 is an age where they can test for stuff that could not be tested for any earlier (major dates around here are 6-or-7, 9, 12, 15).
    I don't remember what he has for accommodations already.

    Stuff that can show up now includes:
    - fine motor skills - as in, maybe he can actually form the letters, but can't "listen and write" or "think and write"? in which case, there may be neuromotor issues; note: not uncommon with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids, but also not uncommon with ADHD kids (50% of ADHD kids have Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD) as well), and can exist co-morbid with all sorts of stuff.
    - auditory processing issues - in particular, problems with auditory discrimination/auditory focus/auditory filtering - i.e. really has problems following what the teacher is saying because of background noise - can really drive a kid insane.
    - other LDs - dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalcula...

    Plus of course... as our kids get a bit older, the gap in skills between them and the "others" gets bigger, and you end up with two things happening...
    1) bullying from the "others" because difficult child is "different"
    2) secondary mood issues - depression or anxiety - because difficult child notices the gap, can't close it, can't "get there"...

    We went through a cycle like this with a non-Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kid. And it was to some extent "all of the above" (I've expanded the lists a bit to give you more ideas).

    Getting to the bottom of more dxes, getting more accommodations and interventions and medications... made all the difference in the world. It just took way too many years for us to get there (some tests we needed didn't even exist back then!)