Additives

[Malika]

I put J to bed about 20 minutes ago and he is still awake, chattering to himself. This literally never happens. Today he had his roller skating class and after I picked him he was more defiant and rude than usual, harder to manage, really not listening to me at all. There was a child's birthday at school today and he was given a bag of sweets, which he was eating through the evening (I got him to save some until after supper). I never usually buy him sweets (he has chocolate sometimes). I am thinking... wondering... could it be additives in sweets that are making him like this? Or maybe just so much sugar. Anyone else had experience of this? If he were like this all the time, I really don't think I could cope well - already yelled at him and then he got really upset saying "Talk to me nicely!"
The usual moments of sweetness mixed in with the difficult behaviour. He didn't want to brush his teeth (but that is not new) and when I insisted, he started sobbing as though his heart would break and declared "I am going to call the polices because you want me to brush my teeth!"

 

[InsaneCdn]

Could be either - or both.

 

[HaoZi]

Either, both, maybe also the general excitement of the party itself as well.

 

[buddy]

OH no! the popo are coming and you are gonna get it!

It is pretty cute even though he was being a stinker.

This whole area is one I have dragged my heels on over the years. I just dont know overall. Obviously what we eat affects us. But I just couldn't add struggling with food every single minute even when he is out of sight to my list. I think many times I may be missing the boat with that though. Afterall he does have an enzyme disorder for processing medications. I never had him tested then to see if other types of enzymes are missing. I asked the endocrinologist (he is in 3rd %ile for ht. and weight but is growing and is healthy)and he thinks he is just a slow grower based on his bone scan etc. Didn't even think medications were the primary cause. His bio dad was a pro. boxer but not tall (could be bad for me).

I know for difficult child one thing is for sure...the ups and downs of hunger absolutely affect him. He can't do anything but talk about food when he is hungry. He gets really crabby long before that. I keep lots of snacks at school and remind them to give him something to eat as a first step when he is cranky. He always has food available to him. I know I should investigate more. After having "soft foods only" types of diet changes for oral surgery, Ican't imagine the pain of changing his whole diet. But if it is in his best interest I have to just get over myself maybe.

No help, just my confused thoughts.

[funny thing...when my son visits my sisters, the first thing they do is shove food at him...they never risk his getting hungry!]

 

[Malika]

Hmmm... quick trip to google shows lots of correlation: One at random:

Chances are, you’ve had the following chat with the doctor of your child with attention deficit disorder (ADD ADHD) — probably just before the holidays...

"Every time Johnny eats lots of sugary foods, his symptoms of ADHD worsen, and he becomes irritable and hyper. I dread this season because Johnny turns it into unhappy days for everyone."
Your doctor leans back in his leather chair and says, “What your child eats has nothing to do with his behavior! There is no research that supports this idea.”
Think again. While some studies have found no correlation between sugar and increased hyperactivity in ADHD children, other studies on nutrition suggest that some ADHD kids are "turned on" by copious amounts of sweet stuff.
A study conducted by the University of South Carolina concluded that the more sugar hyperactive children consumed, the more destructive and restless they became. A study conducted at Yale University indicates that high-sugar diets may increase inattention in some ADHD kids.

J was definitely more hyper tonight. Wouldn't sit still for the story but was careering all over the place, rushing round after his bath when he usually plays more quietly then. So... I seem to have some evidence. How to keep a child away from sweets? OMG!

 

[buddy]

Well certainly in schools we guard up for the week after Halloween. This year with it being on a Monday (oct 31) they just know the kids will be sugared out and it will be impossible. So for sure it does affect them. But how far do we go with control? and what about other additives? and the whole girlfriend/cf thing....I just get overwhelmed. I am going to look into it more, lets keep talking about it. I think it is important. Is there a midground? or do they need to be "cleaned out" or whatever the term is.

 

[Malika]

I do always look at ingredients of food items before I buy them and avoid those with E numbers (better safe than sorry!) A few times J has wanted something like coke which I never give him - no sodas - and I explain that there is something in it that is not good for him. So far he accepts it (more of less). Will he continue to? Time will tell... The battle can only get harder, so I'm with you on that, buddy!

 

[HaoZi]

At 10 mine still won't touch soda - she doesn't like the carbonation. Every adult has happily reinforced her preference for water.

 

[InsaneCdn]

I am going to look into it more, lets keep talking about it. I think it is important. Is there a midground? or do they need to be "cleaned out" or whatever the term is.

Historical perspective...

Back even a hundred years ago: sugar was expensive. Therefore, you did not use sugar... except for really special occasions. For most families, that meant: Christmas, weddings and funerals. That was IT. The rest of the year - honey if you had or found a hive, maple syrup if you had trees (birch makes decent substitute), dried fruit - but no sugar.

When they did have it, it was a few days of sugar high for everybody - and then, life went back to normal.

NOW - its sugar, sugar, sugar, a hundred times a day. Even plain old applesause - you have to watch, or its "sweetened". Our bodies are bombarded with the stuff... and there's no way we were build to handle THAT much sugar.

We let the kids have a few over-the-top days on longer breaks (xmas, summer) - because "even grandpa got that much". But not day-to-day!

I still prefer sugar to the artificial substitutes. If they have to describe the chemical chain... there's no way its even close to natural!

 

[buddy]

yeah I agree, no substitutes, even for me, I'd rather cut out sugar than use artificial. I get huge headaches with diet pop. difficult child never drank pop until last year, then the deal was up...too many events were everyone was offered a can and I just didn't have the heart to say no you have to stand out in another way. He only has it when out on special times, and I have never noticed any behavioral issues (except an increase in his abiity to do that very nice boy thing....fart) -i know girls fart too but why do boys like doing it so much?????

 

[DammitJanet]

Ok I am going to be the one who is in the negative here. I dont believe there is a correlation between sugar and hyperactivity. I think there is between a party, large quantities of sugar and cranky, rambunctious kids.

If sugar made people hyper, then everyone who ate lots of sugar would be hyperactive and not able to pay attention. That isnt the case. That isnt even close to the case. However if you put a bunch of people in a room and give them even a bunch of good for them food...say vegetables and milk to drink, and play loud party music and everyone is dancing and carrying on playing around...people are going to be overstimulated. At least some people will be. Others will be bored to tears.

I had teachers when my boys were in school who wouldnt let them have chocolate milk with their lunches because they said it would make them more hyper. I was livid. They were on ritalin and there was no way a carton of chocolate milk was going to effect them. They were underweight anyway. It wasnt their call to make.

 

[Ktllc]

I'm not sure about sugar, but I know for a fact that all the additives are extremely unhealthy.
My oldest had severe GERD (acid reflux) and had to be hospitalized over it.
He is now on a very restrictive diet. Until I started cooking everything from scratch, he would still have symptoms and require medication. Now he is completly symptom free and can even eat food that should be forbidden as long as I cook it from scratch and wholesome foods. The famous exemple: home made brownies are fine but definitely not store bought ones. Home made tomatoe sauce from home grown tomatoes no pb, tomatoe sauce out of a can and that's a disaster.
If it affects my son's GERD so much, I don't think it would be much of stretch to say it would affect other disorders such as ADHD.
But then, when it's not life threatening (like my son's GERD), how do you implement it with kids???
I never buy candies, but the school always finds occasions to just give them to the kids. It would be sooo hard to fight that.
We would have to prove to our kids that sweets do affect their behavior/lives in a very negative way... and I'm not sure they would realize it. I don't believe the difference would be that drastic...

 

[InsaneCdn]

I never buy candies

What happens if you make your own? If "home-certified brownies" (i.e. your own kitchen) are fine, then "home-certified candy" should be too...?

Kids don't like to be left out. If you can send a small sealed container to the teacher of one that he CAN have... then he doesn't get left out.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Janet - sugar doesn't necessarily generate hyperactivity - but excess sugar can't possibly be good for you. How it affects YOU may be different than how it affects ME - different body chemistry. But neither of us needs to be eating a double-chocolate turtle cheesecake for supper. No matter HOW hard we worked today! and especially... not every day.

 

[DammitJanet]

insane...no doubt. And no one is saying that eating bags and bags of sugar is what you should feed anyone. But to say that if you eat a candy bar or have kool aid you are going to be hyper isnt true either. Maybe I should make that lemon aid because some people are effected by dyes. My boys actually ate very little candy. The one who ate the most is the one who is most sedate. Cory and Jamie still dont eat much in the way of candy or sugar. They do drink some soda. Jamie loves regular coke but will drink kool aid when they dont have the money for soda. Cory normally drinks iced tea. Or water...he is a huge water drinker. No wonder he is the thinnest one of us. But...Cory is still on the go constantly..something is always moving on him.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Sugar made my bro hyper. As in... one soda? off-the-walls hyper. Meat-and-potatoes? not hyper. Totally predictable.

Me? no impact.

Difference? I'm convinced it is all to do with body chemistry.

As an adult... bro has switched to natural sugars... honey and so on. And doesn't get hyper from that. But plain old white sugar - or standard pancake syrup... and HE knows the impact.

Same with dyes and so on... if YOU react, its a problem. Same with less obvious stuff, like gluten.

 

[DammitJanet]

Soda...could have been the caffeine.

 

[Malika]

Ok I am going to be the one who is in the negative here. I dont believe there is a correlation between sugar and hyperactivity. I think there is between a party, large quantities of sugar and cranky, rambunctious kids.

If sugar made people hyper, then everyone who ate lots of sugar would be hyperactive and not able to pay attention. That isnt the case. That isnt even close to the case. However if you put a bunch of people in a room and give them even a bunch of good for them food...say vegetables and milk to drink, and play loud party music and everyone is dancing and carrying on playing around...people are going to be overstimulated. At least some people will be. Others will be bored to tears.

Just to be clear. There wasn't a party yesterday. The boy's mother (actually J's "best friend") just bought a cake and sweets for all the children. The party is today at a local play centre (help). I am just reporting evidence... J doesn't usually eat sweets. Yesterday he did and he was hyper-hyper and rather out of control. Wouldn't sleep immediately which is unheard-of for him. Coincidence? Seems a strange one if so.

 

[HaoZi]

Could be if he doesn't get much extra sugar. I wouldn't totally rule out excitement as a contributing factor. As IC said, a lot is individual chemistry, and some are more sensitive to certain things than others. My kid? She could eat sugar by itself and it wouldn't be an issue, but processed meats bring out aggressive behavior.