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<blockquote data-quote="susiestar" data-source="post: 612817" data-attributes="member: 1233"><p>Rush, my position is a bit different. I have an adult son who has not lived with us since he was 14 due to his extreme violence making it unsafe to have him here with the other kids and myself. I have an adult daughter who so far cannot work due to health issues. I DO have experience with having a very difficult sibling who flat out refused to follow any rules he did not make, and mostly not even ones he did. </p><p></p><p>I saw (and see) my folks do what you are doing. They drew boundaries, he violated them, they redrew them, he violated them, etc. etc. etc.... It really doesn't matter what rules are there, gfgbro KNOWS that he can break them and manipulate my mom into letting it happen with few consequences. If it gets to the point where she is about to do something to enforce a boundary, suddenly there is a crisis with his daughter or with his ex doing something awful to/near his daughter. My mother goes into 'protect granddau' mode and all is forgotten regarding whatever gfgbro has done.</p><p></p><p>Give her a deadline to get out. She is NEVER going to follow your rules until she grows up and sees that the real world won't tolerate the BS she is pulling. If you need to, set her up in a cheap apartment or motel, and tell her you will pay for X amt of time, after that she is on her own. NEVER COSIGN ANYTHING. NEVER. If you do, figure the entire cost of whatever it is, plus a bundle for fees, is your GIFT to her because she will NOT honor the contract with the other party or with you. It is simply the way it is. </p><p></p><p>You and your husband are NOT helping her by allowing her to do this to you. She MUST learn how the real world works if she is to EVER find real happiness and success. She is NOT going to be happy about this. She may tell you she hates you and never wants to see you again. she does not really mean it, though she may act like she does. If you love her, let her go. While many of us need help at age 19, if we are ungrateful and refuse to follow even basic rules, we NEED to be sent out to figure things out for ourselves. I chose college and had the grades to get scholarships and had parents who were willing to help and able to help. I have friends who didn't have this help and had their own apartments and paid for everything themselves, and they made it. I know a LOT of people who did this. It was a LOT of hard work and cheap living, but it was possible then and it is possible now. </p><p></p><p>If she wants to live the lifestyle of someone working a professional job with a spouse who works a professional job (like you and your husband live) then she needs to go out and EARN that lifestyle by working up to that job. if she wants to live the lifestyle of a young adult who refuses to work hard or earn money or be responsible and considerate, PLEASE do her a favor, do yourself and your husband a favor, and allow this. Send her out into the world to go live this lifestyle. I can promise that if my daughter was physically capable of working and supporting herself, if the doctors could treat what is going on with her, she WOULD be out in the world working and supporting herself. As it is, she is at home, doing her best to figure out and manage her health issues (very complex and difficult), and doing all she can around here to contribute. As she is doing her best, she is here with us. If she refused to do what she could, she would be sent to figure her own way in the world.</p><p></p><p>Your daughter is able to work, she does not see the reason to work because she can go home to mommy and daddy and their warm comfy house with cable tv and internet and hot and cold running water and all the food she can stuff her face with and no one to really make her life uncomfortable. Until her life is uncomfortable enough to motivate her, she will not work to earn her own way. Why should she? Why should she eat only her share instead of all she wants? No one is going to do anything about it. The food will be replaced and she can do it again.</p><p></p><p>I firmly believe that everyone NEEDS education beyond high school. Whether that is college (traditional or community), trade school, a formal apprenticeship, or whatever, it is NEEDED. I don't know if you are able or willing to help her pay for this. You may consider offering to allow her to move back in with you to help pay for college/education once she has lived on her own successfully for a period of time (a year?). By successfully I mean she worked consistently at one job, she paid her bills, she kept her place halfway decent (not trashed). I think that if you don't make her leave and support herself for a period of time before you help her with school, she won't work hard at school. She needs to see why further education is needed and to figure out how to be an adult first. It doesn't seem she can figure this out while living at home, given that she cannot follow even basic house rules. Living on her own or with a roommate would give her a very different perspective of things eventually. </p><p></p><p>These are my thoughts, ideas and experiences. Take only what helps you. Even the parts I am passionate about are NOT things I would judge you for. Only you, your husband and difficult child can figure out what is right for you and your family.</p><p></p><p>I know that one of your fears is that she will hate you forever. I was terrified of that for many years with my eldest. Recently I found out that he not only does not hate me, he even appreciates all of the times I went toe to toe with him to insist he follow the rules and made safe choices and got a decent education. Given time, I think your daughter will also, though it may take until she has her own kids and sees how hard that really is. If my difficult child can get to this point, I firmly believe that any of our kids can and will.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="susiestar, post: 612817, member: 1233"] Rush, my position is a bit different. I have an adult son who has not lived with us since he was 14 due to his extreme violence making it unsafe to have him here with the other kids and myself. I have an adult daughter who so far cannot work due to health issues. I DO have experience with having a very difficult sibling who flat out refused to follow any rules he did not make, and mostly not even ones he did. I saw (and see) my folks do what you are doing. They drew boundaries, he violated them, they redrew them, he violated them, etc. etc. etc.... It really doesn't matter what rules are there, gfgbro KNOWS that he can break them and manipulate my mom into letting it happen with few consequences. If it gets to the point where she is about to do something to enforce a boundary, suddenly there is a crisis with his daughter or with his ex doing something awful to/near his daughter. My mother goes into 'protect granddau' mode and all is forgotten regarding whatever gfgbro has done. Give her a deadline to get out. She is NEVER going to follow your rules until she grows up and sees that the real world won't tolerate the BS she is pulling. If you need to, set her up in a cheap apartment or motel, and tell her you will pay for X amt of time, after that she is on her own. NEVER COSIGN ANYTHING. NEVER. If you do, figure the entire cost of whatever it is, plus a bundle for fees, is your GIFT to her because she will NOT honor the contract with the other party or with you. It is simply the way it is. You and your husband are NOT helping her by allowing her to do this to you. She MUST learn how the real world works if she is to EVER find real happiness and success. She is NOT going to be happy about this. She may tell you she hates you and never wants to see you again. she does not really mean it, though she may act like she does. If you love her, let her go. While many of us need help at age 19, if we are ungrateful and refuse to follow even basic rules, we NEED to be sent out to figure things out for ourselves. I chose college and had the grades to get scholarships and had parents who were willing to help and able to help. I have friends who didn't have this help and had their own apartments and paid for everything themselves, and they made it. I know a LOT of people who did this. It was a LOT of hard work and cheap living, but it was possible then and it is possible now. If she wants to live the lifestyle of someone working a professional job with a spouse who works a professional job (like you and your husband live) then she needs to go out and EARN that lifestyle by working up to that job. if she wants to live the lifestyle of a young adult who refuses to work hard or earn money or be responsible and considerate, PLEASE do her a favor, do yourself and your husband a favor, and allow this. Send her out into the world to go live this lifestyle. I can promise that if my daughter was physically capable of working and supporting herself, if the doctors could treat what is going on with her, she WOULD be out in the world working and supporting herself. As it is, she is at home, doing her best to figure out and manage her health issues (very complex and difficult), and doing all she can around here to contribute. As she is doing her best, she is here with us. If she refused to do what she could, she would be sent to figure her own way in the world. Your daughter is able to work, she does not see the reason to work because she can go home to mommy and daddy and their warm comfy house with cable tv and internet and hot and cold running water and all the food she can stuff her face with and no one to really make her life uncomfortable. Until her life is uncomfortable enough to motivate her, she will not work to earn her own way. Why should she? Why should she eat only her share instead of all she wants? No one is going to do anything about it. The food will be replaced and she can do it again. I firmly believe that everyone NEEDS education beyond high school. Whether that is college (traditional or community), trade school, a formal apprenticeship, or whatever, it is NEEDED. I don't know if you are able or willing to help her pay for this. You may consider offering to allow her to move back in with you to help pay for college/education once she has lived on her own successfully for a period of time (a year?). By successfully I mean she worked consistently at one job, she paid her bills, she kept her place halfway decent (not trashed). I think that if you don't make her leave and support herself for a period of time before you help her with school, she won't work hard at school. She needs to see why further education is needed and to figure out how to be an adult first. It doesn't seem she can figure this out while living at home, given that she cannot follow even basic house rules. Living on her own or with a roommate would give her a very different perspective of things eventually. These are my thoughts, ideas and experiences. Take only what helps you. Even the parts I am passionate about are NOT things I would judge you for. Only you, your husband and difficult child can figure out what is right for you and your family. I know that one of your fears is that she will hate you forever. I was terrified of that for many years with my eldest. Recently I found out that he not only does not hate me, he even appreciates all of the times I went toe to toe with him to insist he follow the rules and made safe choices and got a decent education. Given time, I think your daughter will also, though it may take until she has her own kids and sees how hard that really is. If my difficult child can get to this point, I firmly believe that any of our kids can and will. [/QUOTE]
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