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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 678731" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>Contempt. </p><p>Yes. And this becomes a behavioral template for their being in the world. They become predatory people. It becomes who they are. They are frozen in is. It is kind of like Jekyl and Hyde. Except there is no regret. No shame. Their personalities become segmented, not fluid. They feel not one thing when they stalk, because it is compartmentalized in a place where morality or any feeling that would moderate it, like guilt and shame, do not penetrate.</p><p></p><p>The guilt and shame, they project onto others, most likely the person who they hate, and seek to destroy. It is like a virtuous circle. The other, becomes the shameful and guilty one, and for that, deserve every bad thing that can be perpetrated on them.</p><p></p><p>The horror of all this is that there is the risk, that we accept this sentence of culpability. We accept this as having deserved it. It would be a miracle to not believe it. Because we were little tiny girls. Imagine growing up in an environment where you were treated as if, as deserving all manner of punishment, abandonment, disdain. And deserved nothing at all of care, of gentle love and acceptance. </p><p></p><p>And then we come to attack ourselves throughout our whole lives as guilty, as undeserving, and wrong, or foolish about our responses to abuse, mistreatment or shunning. At the command of our abuser. That is the risk. And the reality. Of the mindsets we learned, that are always there waiting to be exploited. We are always at the ready to respond to that siren call, "who is the fool here?"</p><p></p><p>What we do here on FOO Chronicles, is decide that. </p><p>Yes. </p><p></p><p>There is a lure of crashing on the rocks, lured by the sirens' call. Because we have abandoned the stewardship of our destinies, to others. We therefore personally bear no risk. No risk. No reward. If we do this, we are in good company. As the political discourse of this past year aptly illustrates.</p><p>In my case, I do not think I needed everybody to be happy. I needed them to be happy <em>with me</em>. If they were not, I accused myself as being bad, guilty, shameful, brazen, out of control...of my appetites and wants. Because after all, my proper place was <em>to want nothing</em>. </p><p></p><p>So this puts the buying in another light. Am I practicing wanting anything or wanting all of it, being out of control, or is it trying to satiate the wanting that never, ever had an outlet? Or all of it.</p><p>Yes. </p><p></p><p>It is a very, very risky thing to look at all of this because look what we are risking. We open the conversation that always up until this moment, had as a result, every bad thing that could happen to a child; we open up the conversation that as adults, had us taking over and inflicting those punishments on ourselves. Because that is what we learned at our mother's knees, how to take over in ourselves their rage and disdain for us, and make it our own voice, about ourselves. </p><p></p><p>That is the bravery that is us. By opening up the conversation, even inside ourselves the risk is to feel the guilt, shame, undeserving, deserving every bad thing, deserving nothing, nothing at all. Deserving abandonment, deserving contempt, scapegoating, deserving isolation, deserving blame. </p><p></p><p>Because that conversation about ourselves, now latent, is always there at the ready, to align with the other, about ourselves. We are always at the ready to betray ourselves. </p><p></p><p>A diagnosis is only a way to draw a diagram, a map, so we know where we are going, by understanding where we have been. But it a very, very important schematic, this provisional schema of self. </p><p>Yes. Forgiving ourselves for having allowed it. Forgiving ourselves for receiving and accepting love in such a form. Because it was the only love their was. Degrading and demeaning and destructive love. Oh, how sad for us.</p><p>And the child that is still in us, too. Still us. That child is still here. We have a choice. It is recognizing that. This is why the map is important. It shows us where we are, where have been and where we may choose to go. It shows us, if we have taken a false turn, where we need to turn back. And that we can.</p><p>Yes.</p><p>Yes. But this requires seeing them first. First seeing them. Then that they are wrong. Then holding faith with ourselves, standing strong with ourselves and each other, as we stand alone, together. This is bravery.</p><p>Yes. That is the risk. By abandoning ourselves, lured by the siren-call of another's love, a love which is treacherous, we re-traumatize ourselves.</p><p></p><p>Now, this is not to say that it is impossible to be in relationship with our families. We can. And should, if we can. But extreme care must be taken to not abandon ourselves, because that will always be the siren call.</p><p>I am not sure. I will look again at the definition. </p><p>When I read this, I felt my mother. I believe my mother loved me. But oh, what a love it was. It was such a love that I could not bear it. Oh how very sad this is for both of us.</p><p>And here I think of my sister. But little by little, I am understanding more.</p><p>Exactly. And what they want us to know is that we are wrong. We are mistaken. We are foolish. We have done shameful things. We are undeserving. We are bad. And most of all, we do not deserve to live in the sun or live at all. Maybe under a rock is OK. But there needs to be a banner or a billboard announcing to all of the world our crimes and our absolute inferiority to the sister and our complete subjugation to her control and definition. Was this biatchy? Sorry.</p><p>Yes. But I still prefer to call it evil. Sorry.</p><p>Yes. This makes me tingle. With what? Fear? Daring? Glee? Recognition? Like I am coming out of the closet? </p><p></p><p><strong><em>I am free and I am proud. Free to be you and me. </em></strong></p><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>The most interesting thing happened with this post. The top quotes, the ones I took at the beginning of your post, turned out to be at the bottom, in inverse order. So I am dropped off here, at the beginning of Cedar's post, where she cites her intent. Her mission statement and why.</p><p>We have.</p><p>We do now.</p><p>You do, Cedar. You are. You have done it.</p><p>It does. We are doing it. We have done it. We have done the hardest part.</p><p>Yes. </p><p></p><p>It struck me this morning after reading your words *my whole morning has been devoted to this, and to responding: We have crossed the river. We may still be in the low water at the other side, but we have crossed the depths.</p><p></p><p>I hear in your voice a confidence and trust in yourself, that I have never before heard. There is a sense of completion and strength that I have never before heard. Bravo, Cedar. You have become your own hero. You are the hero of your life. I am so proud of us. Each of us. I am proud of myself.</p><p>Yes. We are identifying themselves and we are doing them. Helping each other across the river.</p><p></p><p>When we could have abandoned ourselves and each other and watched from the other, far shore. Which now, for you, almost does not exist, except a memory. What a happy day.</p><p>Yes. It most certainly is. I am smiling here. A big, wide smile.</p><p></p><p>Thank you everybody. Everybody had a piece in this victory march which we continue. </p><p>And now what we need to believe, what the truth is of the story, is victory. Transformation. Heroism. Bravery. Commitment to ourselves and to each of us, and by inference commitment to everything good, because we are becoming people of true integrity. Of confidence. Of true voice. True to ourselves.</p><p></p><p>COPA</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 678731, member: 18958"] Contempt. Yes. And this becomes a behavioral template for their being in the world. They become predatory people. It becomes who they are. They are frozen in is. It is kind of like Jekyl and Hyde. Except there is no regret. No shame. Their personalities become segmented, not fluid. They feel not one thing when they stalk, because it is compartmentalized in a place where morality or any feeling that would moderate it, like guilt and shame, do not penetrate. The guilt and shame, they project onto others, most likely the person who they hate, and seek to destroy. It is like a virtuous circle. The other, becomes the shameful and guilty one, and for that, deserve every bad thing that can be perpetrated on them. The horror of all this is that there is the risk, that we accept this sentence of culpability. We accept this as having deserved it. It would be a miracle to not believe it. Because we were little tiny girls. Imagine growing up in an environment where you were treated as if, as deserving all manner of punishment, abandonment, disdain. And deserved nothing at all of care, of gentle love and acceptance. And then we come to attack ourselves throughout our whole lives as guilty, as undeserving, and wrong, or foolish about our responses to abuse, mistreatment or shunning. At the command of our abuser. That is the risk. And the reality. Of the mindsets we learned, that are always there waiting to be exploited. We are always at the ready to respond to that siren call, "who is the fool here?" What we do here on FOO Chronicles, is decide that. Yes. There is a lure of crashing on the rocks, lured by the sirens' call. Because we have abandoned the stewardship of our destinies, to others. We therefore personally bear no risk. No risk. No reward. If we do this, we are in good company. As the political discourse of this past year aptly illustrates. In my case, I do not think I needed everybody to be happy. I needed them to be happy [I]with me[/I]. If they were not, I accused myself as being bad, guilty, shameful, brazen, out of control...of my appetites and wants. Because after all, my proper place was [I]to want nothing[/I]. So this puts the buying in another light. Am I practicing wanting anything or wanting all of it, being out of control, or is it trying to satiate the wanting that never, ever had an outlet? Or all of it. Yes. It is a very, very risky thing to look at all of this because look what we are risking. We open the conversation that always up until this moment, had as a result, every bad thing that could happen to a child; we open up the conversation that as adults, had us taking over and inflicting those punishments on ourselves. Because that is what we learned at our mother's knees, how to take over in ourselves their rage and disdain for us, and make it our own voice, about ourselves. That is the bravery that is us. By opening up the conversation, even inside ourselves the risk is to feel the guilt, shame, undeserving, deserving every bad thing, deserving nothing, nothing at all. Deserving abandonment, deserving contempt, scapegoating, deserving isolation, deserving blame. Because that conversation about ourselves, now latent, is always there at the ready, to align with the other, about ourselves. We are always at the ready to betray ourselves. A diagnosis is only a way to draw a diagram, a map, so we know where we are going, by understanding where we have been. But it a very, very important schematic, this provisional schema of self. Yes. Forgiving ourselves for having allowed it. Forgiving ourselves for receiving and accepting love in such a form. Because it was the only love their was. Degrading and demeaning and destructive love. Oh, how sad for us. And the child that is still in us, too. Still us. That child is still here. We have a choice. It is recognizing that. This is why the map is important. It shows us where we are, where have been and where we may choose to go. It shows us, if we have taken a false turn, where we need to turn back. And that we can. Yes. Yes. But this requires seeing them first. First seeing them. Then that they are wrong. Then holding faith with ourselves, standing strong with ourselves and each other, as we stand alone, together. This is bravery. Yes. That is the risk. By abandoning ourselves, lured by the siren-call of another's love, a love which is treacherous, we re-traumatize ourselves. Now, this is not to say that it is impossible to be in relationship with our families. We can. And should, if we can. But extreme care must be taken to not abandon ourselves, because that will always be the siren call. I am not sure. I will look again at the definition. When I read this, I felt my mother. I believe my mother loved me. But oh, what a love it was. It was such a love that I could not bear it. Oh how very sad this is for both of us. And here I think of my sister. But little by little, I am understanding more. Exactly. And what they want us to know is that we are wrong. We are mistaken. We are foolish. We have done shameful things. We are undeserving. We are bad. And most of all, we do not deserve to live in the sun or live at all. Maybe under a rock is OK. But there needs to be a banner or a billboard announcing to all of the world our crimes and our absolute inferiority to the sister and our complete subjugation to her control and definition. Was this biatchy? Sorry. Yes. But I still prefer to call it evil. Sorry. Yes. This makes me tingle. With what? Fear? Daring? Glee? Recognition? Like I am coming out of the closet? [B][I]I am free and I am proud. Free to be you and me. [/I][/B] The most interesting thing happened with this post. The top quotes, the ones I took at the beginning of your post, turned out to be at the bottom, in inverse order. So I am dropped off here, at the beginning of Cedar's post, where she cites her intent. Her mission statement and why. We have. We do now. You do, Cedar. You are. You have done it. It does. We are doing it. We have done it. We have done the hardest part. Yes. It struck me this morning after reading your words *my whole morning has been devoted to this, and to responding: We have crossed the river. We may still be in the low water at the other side, but we have crossed the depths. I hear in your voice a confidence and trust in yourself, that I have never before heard. There is a sense of completion and strength that I have never before heard. Bravo, Cedar. You have become your own hero. You are the hero of your life. I am so proud of us. Each of us. I am proud of myself. Yes. We are identifying themselves and we are doing them. Helping each other across the river. When we could have abandoned ourselves and each other and watched from the other, far shore. Which now, for you, almost does not exist, except a memory. What a happy day. Yes. It most certainly is. I am smiling here. A big, wide smile. Thank you everybody. Everybody had a piece in this victory march which we continue. And now what we need to believe, what the truth is of the story, is victory. Transformation. Heroism. Bravery. Commitment to ourselves and to each of us, and by inference commitment to everything good, because we are becoming people of true integrity. Of confidence. Of true voice. True to ourselves. COPA [/QUOTE]
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