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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 680060" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>It would be better, for you Leafy, to let this accusatory way of interpreting go. Sister did not see what you saw. What matters now is whether she is and you are willing not to exclude. Whether you both are willing just to be humans, walking through the dark together, or whether one or the other of you will choose to walk alone.</p><p></p><p>That's pretty much all there is to it, I am beginning to see that.</p><p></p><p>If our sibs continue in abusive patterns now, when we know, and when they know, better, then we will need to choose whether we matter enough to ourselves to choose walking alone.</p><p></p><p>It's as Copa posts to us, Leafy. There is no villain, and we are only victims if we victimize ourselves. Once we no longer require that role of ourselves, the entire construct falls apart. There is no victim. By our refusal to victimize ourselves, there is no victim. Thus, no villain.</p><p></p><p>In our present day interactions, we say so. We say what we see as we see it. No one else has a say in what we see.</p><p></p><p>Either our FOO will consider us, or they will use those energies to create the alliance and the shun. They will see us as slaves, enslaved to whatever it is that fuels the dysfunctional family dynamic. So, when we recognize that, we can understand how it was that though Joseph was indeed sold smack dab into slavery by his own brothers and with his own father's collusion...Joseph was never enslaved to them or to that dynamic, in his own heart.</p><p></p><p>But I think that like us too, Jacob had to be able to see the futility of the win for any of his family ~ including himself, should he have decided to take vengeance. In the way Joseph saw, he freed them all.</p><p></p><p>But the brothers, and the father, still believed he was as they insisted he was. They did this Leafy, because of the power accruing to them in that belief system.</p><p></p><p>All Joseph did was to say: "That was never true. Not for me. Here is food." Note Joseph did not say that he loved them. But he did not say he hated them, either. Joseph stated his truth.</p><p></p><p>What they did with what Joseph knew was up to them.</p><p></p><p>And in what they did, Joseph learned who they were. But who they were no longer created the smallest echo, in his heart.</p><p></p><p>So...I think you were here with us when Copa brought us Joseph.</p><p></p><p>Those threads are somewhere here in FOO Leafy, if you were not here then.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. You have no more right to insist your mutual reality is as you say it must be than she does, Leafy.</p><p></p><p>Here is a beautiful quote:</p><p></p><p><em>The Talmud states, "Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."</em></p><p></p><p><em>Bridges McCall</em></p><p></p><p>Here again, Joseph teaches us: We are only enslaved to what someone else is very certain is reality if we chose that for ourselves. In any event, everything about all of that is written already in stone, Leafy. Nothing can be changed about what did or did not happen then.</p><p></p><p>How do you envision the reality you would create with this sister, Leafy.</p><p></p><p>We only have the present moment. There is nothing else. Know what it is you wish to buy with your time.</p><p></p><p>Then, buy it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What is the source of the anger here, Leafy.</p><p></p><p>What is it you are fighting for? It reads, and I could be interpreting this incorrectly, as though you are still only Leafy with their permission.</p><p></p><p>"<em>...that is her right. So the same for me."</em></p><p></p><p>Two wrongs never yet made a right, Leafy.</p><p></p><p>What are your centered conclusions regarding this sister. Not her conclusions that you take your validity from. What do <em>you</em> feel, New Leaf.</p><p></p><p>This material is sacred.</p><p></p><p>Are you able to see yourself here anywhere, New Leaf. Step out of the circle.</p><p></p><p>And there you will be.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If it were me, I think I would bring a snack or a cup of tea at a certain time each day, and smile at my husband, and leave the room. As he wishes. For this time, for whatever reason, this is what you husband needs. He is human, not perfect. We don't have to be perfect either. But we can choose to be kind. We can choose to respect a wish for privacy and in so doing create that same expectation for ourselves, in ourselves.</p><p></p><p>It has to begin somewhere.</p><p></p><p>Make a kind change. Keep it kind. Visit, and remember that to be human is a very hard thing sometimes, and go on to have your evening.</p><p></p><p>Paint, or write, or garden. You know these things already, Leafy. Make the better choice.</p><p></p><p>We are our own gifts, and we make of those gifts whatever we like.</p><p></p><p>Don't let the little girl with the red balloon float off, unattended and unremarked.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No one can say what is Alzheimer's and what is not but a qualified diagnostician. </p><p></p><p>Unless things have changed, and it has been a number of years since I worked, the diagnosis can only be made with certainty postmortem.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes.</p><p></p><p>Oh, those ways we understand the why behind what our abusers have done are so far reaching, and so powerfully awful.</p><p></p><p>I feel bad for us. Maybe we would all have come through this better if we were not so bright as we are.</p><p></p><p>But that's okay. Now we are reclaiming those energies for ourselves.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>This is true Copa but at the same time, we ~ like, I had to re-see myself during incidents of abuse because the eyes of the abuser name us the thing it is not only okay, but gloriously, finally, exhilaratingly right to hurt or to hit or to kick or to name a worthless thing. Remember when I could not undo it without accessing witnesses who were not me, but who represented the parts of me sealed away to survive the abuse in the first place.</p><p></p><p>It would not have been wise of us to excuse ourselves to our abusers, telling them to come back, later.</p><p></p><p>There was nothing civilized about what happened to us.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>We took on the morally deficient (or he would have dealt with it himself, like we are) abuser's worst darknesses and believed them to be our own. That is where we were hurt. In what lived in those empty eyes. And it had nothing in the world to do with parenting. Not on any level. What was happening to us had nothing to do with us. </p><p></p><p>We were little girls. (Or, little boy children.) </p><p></p><p>Until we understand intellectually that there are human beings who are bad people (simpler than however else I might have described them ~ and the person who needs to know this is me, when I was little. So, "bad people" resonates for me in a way the intellectualized definitions of one illness or another do not. But it helped me to learn that there are such things as bad people in the world. It helped me to believe myself about what happened to me, and to stop believing that nasty, innocence-thieving abuser.)</p><p></p><p>What in the world were they thinking.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>I am in a circle here because I told New Leaf no one could diagnose Alzheimer's but a certified diagnostician. But I bandy around terms like predator and malignant narcissist and etc.</p><p></p><p>Aha. And the answer is: This site is anonymous. No harm done and much healing.</p><p></p><p>That was a close one.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. And how good to know this is so.</p><p></p><p><em>"The distortions we made that hurt us still."</em></p><p></p><p>This is beautiful, Copa. It relieves the guilt of the process of laying bare what happened and how to think about it.</p><p></p><p><em>"The distortions we made that hurt us still."</em></p><p></p><p>I like this very much, Copa.</p><p></p><p>Thank you. These are good words.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That could be. But it was so kind of her to sit with me. </p><p></p><p>I really think she did, Copa.</p><p></p><p>But her heart wasn't wholly in it. Paco liked Dolly being there very much. She seems so huge to him in silhouette against the stars. Sarah wishes you would bring the cat, so they could go together and do nefarious cat things, watching us, and watching for us, out of the corners of their beautiful green eyes.</p><p></p><p>Unless your feline eyes are blue.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, here is my question: Was the mother also jealous of you? Could that have been where those vibes from the other child were coming from? Maybe the mother was tormenting the little girl with your perfection, Copa.</p><p></p><p>Her disparaging your studying is similar to my mother disparaging my writing, or my thinking. So, maybe it was done for the same reason, Copa. We were raised with such strangenesses in our lives that we would have been unable to recognize strangenesses in the homes of our friends. We can be pretty certain though, I suppose, that if we were comfortable there, in those homes, there were some pretty deep currents swirling around.</p><p></p><p>You were a beautiful child, so I have surmised, Copa. </p><p></p><p>Was the other little girl as beautiful and as intelligent?</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 680060, member: 17461"] It would be better, for you Leafy, to let this accusatory way of interpreting go. Sister did not see what you saw. What matters now is whether she is and you are willing not to exclude. Whether you both are willing just to be humans, walking through the dark together, or whether one or the other of you will choose to walk alone. That's pretty much all there is to it, I am beginning to see that. If our sibs continue in abusive patterns now, when we know, and when they know, better, then we will need to choose whether we matter enough to ourselves to choose walking alone. It's as Copa posts to us, Leafy. There is no villain, and we are only victims if we victimize ourselves. Once we no longer require that role of ourselves, the entire construct falls apart. There is no victim. By our refusal to victimize ourselves, there is no victim. Thus, no villain. In our present day interactions, we say so. We say what we see as we see it. No one else has a say in what we see. Either our FOO will consider us, or they will use those energies to create the alliance and the shun. They will see us as slaves, enslaved to whatever it is that fuels the dysfunctional family dynamic. So, when we recognize that, we can understand how it was that though Joseph was indeed sold smack dab into slavery by his own brothers and with his own father's collusion...Joseph was never enslaved to them or to that dynamic, in his own heart. But I think that like us too, Jacob had to be able to see the futility of the win for any of his family ~ including himself, should he have decided to take vengeance. In the way Joseph saw, he freed them all. But the brothers, and the father, still believed he was as they insisted he was. They did this Leafy, because of the power accruing to them in that belief system. All Joseph did was to say: "That was never true. Not for me. Here is food." Note Joseph did not say that he loved them. But he did not say he hated them, either. Joseph stated his truth. What they did with what Joseph knew was up to them. And in what they did, Joseph learned who they were. But who they were no longer created the smallest echo, in his heart. So...I think you were here with us when Copa brought us Joseph. Those threads are somewhere here in FOO Leafy, if you were not here then. Yes. You have no more right to insist your mutual reality is as you say it must be than she does, Leafy. Here is a beautiful quote: [I]The Talmud states, "Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."[/I] [I]Bridges McCall[/I] Here again, Joseph teaches us: We are only enslaved to what someone else is very certain is reality if we chose that for ourselves. In any event, everything about all of that is written already in stone, Leafy. Nothing can be changed about what did or did not happen then. How do you envision the reality you would create with this sister, Leafy. We only have the present moment. There is nothing else. Know what it is you wish to buy with your time. Then, buy it. What is the source of the anger here, Leafy. What is it you are fighting for? It reads, and I could be interpreting this incorrectly, as though you are still only Leafy with their permission. "[I]...that is her right. So the same for me."[/I] Two wrongs never yet made a right, Leafy. What are your centered conclusions regarding this sister. Not her conclusions that you take your validity from. What do [I]you[/I] feel, New Leaf. This material is sacred. Are you able to see yourself here anywhere, New Leaf. Step out of the circle. And there you will be. If it were me, I think I would bring a snack or a cup of tea at a certain time each day, and smile at my husband, and leave the room. As he wishes. For this time, for whatever reason, this is what you husband needs. He is human, not perfect. We don't have to be perfect either. But we can choose to be kind. We can choose to respect a wish for privacy and in so doing create that same expectation for ourselves, in ourselves. It has to begin somewhere. Make a kind change. Keep it kind. Visit, and remember that to be human is a very hard thing sometimes, and go on to have your evening. Paint, or write, or garden. You know these things already, Leafy. Make the better choice. We are our own gifts, and we make of those gifts whatever we like. Don't let the little girl with the red balloon float off, unattended and unremarked. No one can say what is Alzheimer's and what is not but a qualified diagnostician. Unless things have changed, and it has been a number of years since I worked, the diagnosis can only be made with certainty postmortem. Yes. Oh, those ways we understand the why behind what our abusers have done are so far reaching, and so powerfully awful. I feel bad for us. Maybe we would all have come through this better if we were not so bright as we are. But that's okay. Now we are reclaiming those energies for ourselves. *** This is true Copa but at the same time, we ~ like, I had to re-see myself during incidents of abuse because the eyes of the abuser name us the thing it is not only okay, but gloriously, finally, exhilaratingly right to hurt or to hit or to kick or to name a worthless thing. Remember when I could not undo it without accessing witnesses who were not me, but who represented the parts of me sealed away to survive the abuse in the first place. It would not have been wise of us to excuse ourselves to our abusers, telling them to come back, later. There was nothing civilized about what happened to us. *** We took on the morally deficient (or he would have dealt with it himself, like we are) abuser's worst darknesses and believed them to be our own. That is where we were hurt. In what lived in those empty eyes. And it had nothing in the world to do with parenting. Not on any level. What was happening to us had nothing to do with us. We were little girls. (Or, little boy children.) Until we understand intellectually that there are human beings who are bad people (simpler than however else I might have described them ~ and the person who needs to know this is me, when I was little. So, "bad people" resonates for me in a way the intellectualized definitions of one illness or another do not. But it helped me to learn that there are such things as bad people in the world. It helped me to believe myself about what happened to me, and to stop believing that nasty, innocence-thieving abuser.) What in the world were they thinking. *** I am in a circle here because I told New Leaf no one could diagnose Alzheimer's but a certified diagnostician. But I bandy around terms like predator and malignant narcissist and etc. Aha. And the answer is: This site is anonymous. No harm done and much healing. That was a close one. Yes. And how good to know this is so. [I]"The distortions we made that hurt us still."[/I] This is beautiful, Copa. It relieves the guilt of the process of laying bare what happened and how to think about it. [I]"The distortions we made that hurt us still."[/I] I like this very much, Copa. Thank you. These are good words. That could be. But it was so kind of her to sit with me. I really think she did, Copa. But her heart wasn't wholly in it. Paco liked Dolly being there very much. She seems so huge to him in silhouette against the stars. Sarah wishes you would bring the cat, so they could go together and do nefarious cat things, watching us, and watching for us, out of the corners of their beautiful green eyes. Unless your feline eyes are blue. So, here is my question: Was the mother also jealous of you? Could that have been where those vibes from the other child were coming from? Maybe the mother was tormenting the little girl with your perfection, Copa. Her disparaging your studying is similar to my mother disparaging my writing, or my thinking. So, maybe it was done for the same reason, Copa. We were raised with such strangenesses in our lives that we would have been unable to recognize strangenesses in the homes of our friends. We can be pretty certain though, I suppose, that if we were comfortable there, in those homes, there were some pretty deep currents swirling around. You were a beautiful child, so I have surmised, Copa. Was the other little girl as beautiful and as intelligent? Cedar [/QUOTE]
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