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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 680673" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>You are speculating here Cedar about why you see through their eyes.</p><p></p><p>You see, there was no other way to think at the beginning. Your mother was your world and because she was a tyrant (sorry) she demanded absolutely control. That you dissented at all, which you did, was a miracle.</p><p></p><p>I will speak to my own reality then: I knew. I always knew. I would have lived my whole life choosing for my mother I have come to believe, had their not been one big break. The arrival of my step-father who was a sadistic and horrible man. But I see it now in a different way. I had 6 years of betrayal by my mother and sister...before I emancipated at 17. Those years taught me that (by force) that I was entirely alone and had nobody at all. I watched my mother over and over again choose for herself, and this enabled me to chose for myself eventually.</p><p></p><p>Had my step-father not come, I would have never learned how to be alone because I was alone. A gift, I see.</p><p>I see it as the loss of the imaginary sense that we had anybody. That is not what I sought to keep...the illusion of control...but the illusion I was not alone in the world.</p><p>You answer yourself Cedar, below.</p><p></p><p>For almost all of my life I could not believe in G-d. Because I believed myself to have been abandoned by Him. Joseph could believe in himself because he could believe in goodness. Could we, Cedar?</p><p>I think you could and I think I could. Why for almost 60 years did I remember my mother coming home from work to tell me the first thing that somebody told her she looked like Sophia Loren? (I mean, really, now.) I knew how self-absorbed she was and I knew it was wrong to use your own child as a mirror.</p><p></p><p>I believe you knew, Cedar. But if you were to see your mother as she was...really see...you would have been alone. I do not see how a child could bear it. Not that young.</p><p>I believe you knew it was wrong, Cedar. I do.</p><p>Cedar. You are asking, your adult self is asking, impossible things of that child Cedar. You concealed a part of you, so that it might live. Even when you were depreciated for your kindness, you guarded it. You concealed strengths as a strategy to grow up, waiting for time to wake them up from dormancy.</p><p></p><p>Look at the presidential race. How nobody challenged Donald Trump for months and months...because they knew he would kill them...if they attacked. These are strong men, capable men. Adults. All of them holding important offices. They were afraid.</p><p>Rubio did not lack the ability or the resources to attack. He was afraid of the consequences. He waited until the stakes or his circumstances portended he would survive the attack. While he was waiting he did not accuse himself as a coward. He did not hold himself in self-contempt.</p><p></p><p>Think about it Cedar. You were a baby.</p><p>Yes and no.</p><p></p><p>Cedar. Your mother is Donald Trump. Unlike Rubio there was no super-pac. There was no wife and kids. There was no job. Even the dog could not help.</p><p></p><p>When I wrote that about perceptions is was not for you to hit yourself in the head. While I believe what I wrote to be true for each of us, I was thinking of you New Leaf, when I wrote that. Your sister was a baby, too, just a year older. Her understanding of things, could not have been significantly differently than your own. The intent you ascribe to her and your brother is highly unlikely to have been conceivable to a child of that age. If your siblings at such a young age were left alone there are adults who are responsible. They were innocents as were you.</p><p>You were not a willing victim. You were victimized at home. You had nowhere to go. </p><p>They did want you. They wanted you not-thinking.</p><p>I do not believe this for one second.</p><p>They love you Cedar in the way that they know how to love. Look at your sister Cedar. Look at how she loves her grandchildren. The way your sister and mother love you, now feels toxic to you Cedar.</p><p></p><p>For some reason, Cedar, it feels preferable to think it is they who are rejecting you, and they may well be. But to them, you changed first. For as long as they (and you) could they blamed your D H. Then, when they could not longer hold onto that fiction (and you either) the truth of things revealed itself.</p><p>Your mother and sister love you. You love them.</p><p>Every time I read this I think you are talking about the little girls who were us.</p><p>Add to this the strong need to have control.</p><p>Add to that, our own.</p><p>Crying can feel like a win. For a child crying can get attention. Crying can be a way to punish too. To control. To triangulate. For adults there are far more effective powers.</p><p>The desertion of ourselves comes from relying on behaviors learned 50 or 60 years ago. And a view of the world learned as a 4 year old.</p><p>Are you talking here your mother and sister? I forget. The goal here is to not lie to ourselves.</p><p>I love her.</p><p>I do something similar. I am not sure what because my son is sitting here in my living room and my mind is blocked. I would prefer to be present to this post.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 680673, member: 18958"] You are speculating here Cedar about why you see through their eyes. You see, there was no other way to think at the beginning. Your mother was your world and because she was a tyrant (sorry) she demanded absolutely control. That you dissented at all, which you did, was a miracle. I will speak to my own reality then: I knew. I always knew. I would have lived my whole life choosing for my mother I have come to believe, had their not been one big break. The arrival of my step-father who was a sadistic and horrible man. But I see it now in a different way. I had 6 years of betrayal by my mother and sister...before I emancipated at 17. Those years taught me that (by force) that I was entirely alone and had nobody at all. I watched my mother over and over again choose for herself, and this enabled me to chose for myself eventually. Had my step-father not come, I would have never learned how to be alone because I was alone. A gift, I see. I see it as the loss of the imaginary sense that we had anybody. That is not what I sought to keep...the illusion of control...but the illusion I was not alone in the world. You answer yourself Cedar, below. For almost all of my life I could not believe in G-d. Because I believed myself to have been abandoned by Him. Joseph could believe in himself because he could believe in goodness. Could we, Cedar? I think you could and I think I could. Why for almost 60 years did I remember my mother coming home from work to tell me the first thing that somebody told her she looked like Sophia Loren? (I mean, really, now.) I knew how self-absorbed she was and I knew it was wrong to use your own child as a mirror. I believe you knew, Cedar. But if you were to see your mother as she was...really see...you would have been alone. I do not see how a child could bear it. Not that young. I believe you knew it was wrong, Cedar. I do. Cedar. You are asking, your adult self is asking, impossible things of that child Cedar. You concealed a part of you, so that it might live. Even when you were depreciated for your kindness, you guarded it. You concealed strengths as a strategy to grow up, waiting for time to wake them up from dormancy. Look at the presidential race. How nobody challenged Donald Trump for months and months...because they knew he would kill them...if they attacked. These are strong men, capable men. Adults. All of them holding important offices. They were afraid. Rubio did not lack the ability or the resources to attack. He was afraid of the consequences. He waited until the stakes or his circumstances portended he would survive the attack. While he was waiting he did not accuse himself as a coward. He did not hold himself in self-contempt. Think about it Cedar. You were a baby. Yes and no. Cedar. Your mother is Donald Trump. Unlike Rubio there was no super-pac. There was no wife and kids. There was no job. Even the dog could not help. When I wrote that about perceptions is was not for you to hit yourself in the head. While I believe what I wrote to be true for each of us, I was thinking of you New Leaf, when I wrote that. Your sister was a baby, too, just a year older. Her understanding of things, could not have been significantly differently than your own. The intent you ascribe to her and your brother is highly unlikely to have been conceivable to a child of that age. If your siblings at such a young age were left alone there are adults who are responsible. They were innocents as were you. You were not a willing victim. You were victimized at home. You had nowhere to go. They did want you. They wanted you not-thinking. I do not believe this for one second. They love you Cedar in the way that they know how to love. Look at your sister Cedar. Look at how she loves her grandchildren. The way your sister and mother love you, now feels toxic to you Cedar. For some reason, Cedar, it feels preferable to think it is they who are rejecting you, and they may well be. But to them, you changed first. For as long as they (and you) could they blamed your D H. Then, when they could not longer hold onto that fiction (and you either) the truth of things revealed itself. Your mother and sister love you. You love them. Every time I read this I think you are talking about the little girls who were us. Add to this the strong need to have control. Add to that, our own. Crying can feel like a win. For a child crying can get attention. Crying can be a way to punish too. To control. To triangulate. For adults there are far more effective powers. The desertion of ourselves comes from relying on behaviors learned 50 or 60 years ago. And a view of the world learned as a 4 year old. Are you talking here your mother and sister? I forget. The goal here is to not lie to ourselves. I love her. I do something similar. I am not sure what because my son is sitting here in my living room and my mind is blocked. I would prefer to be present to this post. [/QUOTE]
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