Allegations of abuse?

[PatriotsGirl]

M messages me on Facebook and asks if I have ever considered why difficult child uses. He tells me she uses as a coping mechanism to deal with childhood traumas. I ask what trauma?? He tells me that she told him she was sexually abused by my mother's husband.

My mother and her husband moved to Georgia with us when we first moved here. We all lived in the same house for two of our moves before they moved on their own - my mom always helped out with the kids, etc. difficult child used to love spending time with Nana and J.

He and my mother moved back to Massachusetts after some time. I shipped difficult child off to go stay with them when I first learned of her addiction issues and she refused rehab. She was there until she woke one morning to J watching her sleeping and playing with himself. My mother threw him out but later took him back. I have not talked to her since. J also pulled the same with my neices.

Now, today, difficult child claimed he was sexually abusing her as a child when they were living with us. She tells me it started at the second house we moved to when she was in elementary school. Because this man has a sexual addiction, I don't find this impossible. And it angers me. To the point where I want to do something stupid.

But what does bother me, and I hate that I question such a thing but - she loved spending time with them. If she was being abused - would she have wanted to be with them? Sleep over their house (when they lived elsewhere)? Why would she agree to go up to Massachusetts to stay with them if he had abused her? Is this how a victim would normally act?

She had also told M that I shipped her and her dog up there to be homeless for six months. (I had sent her to stay with my mother!). When I asked her why she would tell him such a thing, she said he doesn't know what he is talking about and to not talk to him. She was telling me to block him on Facebook and was adamant that we not talk anymore.

I ripped off a message to my mother today telling her what I was told. Now I am really wondering if I am being lied to. I know he touched himself in front of them and my neices came forward and told of other things he had pulled at the beach in the past. He would be in the water and tried to get the girls to touch him. Sick.

But I just can't understand why difficult child would spend time with them if she was being abused...

 

[Mattsmom277]

I think, unfortunately, it may be hard to ascertain if these are true recollections. Considering M's story telling of late, drug addiction induced, it sadly undermines her credibility. At the same time however, it is not without possibility that a person who suffered abuse at a younger age may agree to be around their abuser in later years. It is not uncommon, or at least not unheard of. I don't think that should at all be a factor of consideration when trying to decipher if M is telling the truth or not. Considering this guy was exposing himself and touching himself (sexual interference is the name here, a criminal offense and puts the offender for life on the sex offender registry), it isn't impossible that he went further. With M or anyone else. At the same time, there is always the question of why now is M telling this part of her "history". She hasn't been dealing with the real world or the rest of the worlds reality for some time. I would hate like heck for it to be a "cry wolf" thing, whereby her recent history of ludicrous stories causes doubt when she tells the truth, especially about something horrific such as abuse. At the same time, that is a very serious allegation she is making and I do hope it is the truth, in that lies like that can get her in deep hot water. Not that I want her to have been abused (of course I wouldn't wish that on anybody), but it isn't uncommon either for lives to be ruined by allegations that turn out false.

I think you are in a tricky position and I feel for you (And M... regardless if its true or false, your M is one mixed up young woman). Since you don't have contact with your Mom nor her husband, I would let that part go personally. I would only discuss with M if she is willing to be forthcoming and offer the full discussion required to see what really went on between her and your mothers husband. Very sad regardless, and I will be thinking of M (and you).

 

[HaoZi]

She was telling me to block him on Facebook and was adamant that we not talk anymore.

That alone would make me question everything she said - to you and to him. Sounds like she doesn't want you comparing notes. I'd put more stock in what nieces have to say, sorry to say it. That doesn't mean abuse didn't happen, or maybe he simply hadn't worked himself up to the point he got to with the nieces until later. Really no way to know at this point, and I know you'll always question it and that hurts.

I would think she would have shown something, somehow, in her behavior. But I've never been a victim of such and can't personally speak of such things.

 

[recoveringenabler]

For victims of sexual abuse, it obscures their ability to distinguish between love and abuse. It is very complicated for the victims to untangle all of that, especially if it happened when she was very young. Even with all your doubts, not believing her would be another violation, it's tricky for you, however, for her, if she is truly a survivor of sexual abuse, it is devastating. Waking up to her step grandfather playing with himself is enough to harm her in very profound ways. You may not be able to understand why she would spend time with him, but that doesn't mean she wasn't abused. She needs therapy, help to heal from that. Lying, manipulating, trust issues, safety issues, are all part of sexual abuse. I recall reading that often when you get to the root of addictions you will find sexual abuse. It's a tough spot, but I think giving her the benefit of the doubt is important. She may have confided in M before she was quite prepared to confide in you, there is much, much shame for the victim involved in sexual abuse, even though they were children with no responsibility, they suffer enormous shame.

 

[PatriotsGirl]

For victims of sexual abuse, it obscures their ability to distinguish between love and abuse. It is very complicated for the victims to untangle all of that, especially if it happened when she was very young. Even with all your doubts, not believing her would be another violation, it's tricky for you, however, for her, if she is truly a survivor of sexual abuse, it is devastating. Waking up to her step grandfather playing with himself is enough to harm her in very profound ways. You may not be able to understand why she would spend time with him, but that doesn't mean she wasn't abused. She needs therapy, help to heal from that. Lying, manipulating, trust issues, safety issues, are all part of sexual abuse. I recall reading that often when you get to the root of addictions you will find sexual abuse. It's a tough spot, but I think giving her the benefit of the doubt is important. She may have confided in M before she was quite prepared to confide in you, there is much, much shame for the victim involved in sexual abuse, even though they were children with no responsibility, they suffer enormous shame.

I absolutely gave her the benefit of the doubt. I knew if it was true, and I didn't believe her, it could truly squash her. As far as she is concerned, I believe her. I just have the questions in the back of my head.

He exposed himself while she was there a couple of years ago. This is the first she has spoken of him doing anything else to her - including when she was little.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Ugh, that's just disgusting, PG. I don't know the technical term for what difficult child encountered, whether it's considered "abuse" or not, but that's just semantics anyway. Even if the only thing she experienced was waking up and seeing him playing with himself in her room - that's enough to cause trauma in my opinion. That's her "grandpa" figure, for crying out loud.
Based on what your nieces said, and the fact that you say he is (was) a sex addict, then I believe your difficult child. Now, why she said you sent her up there to be homeless, and why she wanted to continue to see them if abuse began in elementary school, I'm not qualified to even guess. If he did abuse her in elementary school, perhaps she didn't know how to react, whether she'd be believed, if she would get in trouble - who knows what he could've told her to scare her. Maybe she thought that the attention he was giving her made her "special" and unique even though she probably felt shame. Abusers of children are phenomenal manipulators of young minds.
That man is vile - also trying to cop a feel at the beach. Sick, sick sick. I would punch his lights out. So sorry about difficult child.

 

[HaoZi]

And it angers me. To the point where I want to do something stupid.

Forgot to mention, totally with you on that. I'm sure we all are.

 

[InsaneCdn]

But I just can't understand why difficult child would spend time with them if she was being abused

Read more: http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/f11/allegations-abuse-52645/#ixzz2LIKSnIps

1) the abuser often pours on the "affection", trinkets and treats, which adds to the confusion. The kid wants THOSE things, but has to do other stuff to get them
2) threats - from harm to the child, to harm to others they love
3) timelines can really get messed up in the brain of a kid who goes through this, as can exact events. The impact of a "minor" situation can be major.
4) Memories can be blocked out so well that even if a similar thing happens later with the same person, "the past" is locked away and not recalled.

Not that I can tell you if she is true or not true or partially true... but I can tell you that there are lots of reasons why you would not have known at the time.

 

[Signorina]

Oh PG - I don't have any words of wisdom. I can totally see both sides of the equation. That man was DEFINITELY and CRIMINALLY over the line; and it's feasible that there was abuse beyond your knowledge. That said, difficult children tend to embellish. A Lot. Especially when it is working for them. I think I have referred to my own difficult child as Joe Isuzu more than once. So, I completely understand your dilemma.

The only thing I have to add is that maybe you can put on your OTT (and not so) pseudo "OMG poor baby, we have to get you some help..." hat and use this a new approach to get her into -- if not rehab -- regular counseling?

But other than that, I don't know how you should cope. Lots and lots of hugs.

 

[BusynMember]

I believe her. First of all, a lot of abuse victims think of the sex as love, especially as kids and secondly, they block out the memories. Because of my kids and the child we adopted and what he did to him I have a compulsion to read about abused children's true stories (written as adults) and most of them were often around the abuser and never told. It is so hard when the abused child is not believed. It can cause so many conflicts that can never be resolved. Why on earth would she lie? If he would stand there playing with himself when she was older, certainly he was capable of doing things to her when she was very young and it's probably fuzzy but somewhere in the back of her mind.

 

[DDD]

Sending support your way. I have not been there done that but based on my reading etc. I don't think you should discount her story because she evidently choose to spend time with THEM...not HIM. Hugs. DDD

 

[InsaneCdn]

Skip "regular counselling"... this requires someone with lots of experience in early-childhood sexual abuse.

 

[Signorina]

IC - PG has been desperate to get her daughter to agree to help before this came to light. If this is her way "in" - I think she should grasp the opportunity to get her in front of a professional in whatever form she can get her daughter to agree. The sexual abuse is terrible but there are other more pressing concerns with a pregnant addict. So professional help in ANY form is far better than pregnant, using and alone, with a troubled past; Know what I mean??

I know with my son it was easier for him to agree to help for his "post concussive" syndrome rather than for his substance abuse. Right now, I am using that avenue and it hasn't triggered his denial and flee response...of course he isn't in counseling yet, but he hasn't fled... it's so hard when these kids respond first with "I NEVER WANT TO SEE/HEAR FROM YOU AGAIN" to your desperation to get them help...

Any help is better than no help.

 

[exhausted]

I believe it happened as well. I have been down this path with my difficult child. You cannot assign reason to much of this. If she was very young
she may not have fully understood what was happening. There is a reason for her use....there is always a core issue. It is complicated and
waffles between shame and need for attention. This guy is a pervert.....why wouldn't he target your girl? I have to tell you the healing from this
is pure heck. It is a tough road. Here we have a rape crisis center that handles all kinds of sex abuse and has EMDR and other trauma therapies.
It is free for those who can't afford it. My guess is there is something there as well. Of course she will have to choose to go. I wish my difficult child would press charges
against her cousin. She still chooses not to. We have been told it really helps with healing. Could you persue a civil action with her cousins?

 

[Kathy813]

PG, ordinarily I would say to believe her since he had a known history of abuse. However, I just can't forget the recent stories about people shooting at her on the docks of Lake Lanier. It's hard to know what to believe at this point.

~Kathy

 

[AnnieO]

Knowing what happened with Onyxx, and then her subsequent trip down addict lane, I would be inclined to believe her.

They believe they will be punished WORSE if they tell. And in Onyxx's case... She knew bio would tell her to say it was husband. But she kept visiting bio (and creep) because she desperately wanted to be LOVED and "affection" from the creep made bio happy.

Given her whole life, I'm not shocked. As for your difficult child, hon, if he did it when she was older - he did it when she was younger. But she may be confused, and therefore not sure exactly WHAT happened when she was younger.

 

[HaoZi]

Regardless of what age it began she does need specialized therapy for help - is she willing to get it?

 

[InsaneCdn]

Kathy... this kind of experience is enough to drive a kid to psychosis... at which point, it IS difficult to separate out what parts are reality.

 

[toughlovin]

PG - I suspect that something happened when she was young, especially given that what happened later on. Depending on how young she was the details may be confused or distorted but I have no trouble belieiving that something happened. And those things are hard for a young child to understand and depending on what it was may not have hurt her physically and she just may not have had a clear understanding of it until she was a bit older.... and so yes she may have still wanted to go there. And it certainly helps make sense of her later behavior.

And it also makes perfect sense that you had no idea when it was happening.

TL

 

[Kathy813]

InsaneCD, it is also possible that the drug addiction has brought on psychosis, delusions, and distorted thinking. Again, it is hard to know the truth after a history of hardcore substance abuse and the lying that comes with it.

I'm not saying that it didn't happen . . . I'm just saying that PG needs to be cautious about blindly accepting what her difficult child says at this point.

~Kathy