An interesting situation that keeps repeating itself!

[Snowenne]

Hi,
Was wondering if anyone has ever had to deal with a situation like this. My son who is ADHD/Aspergers has started a new we think Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) behiavor. However, its a dangerous one. My son went through a few weeks back a little bout I guess you could say with constipation. Only he wasnt constipated. He was refusing to go. Keeping it in whenever he felt the 'feeling' After a couple days of him doing this we started to give him laxatives (without him knowing) to help. However 4 days of laxatives he was still fighting. Only now hes in severe pain. We tried and tried and tried to tell him he had to go but he wouldnt listen. It ended up with him throwing up screaming in pain before he did anything. Did he learn. NO. He's back at it again not going. What do you do??

 

[keista]

My son did this same exact thing. Only difference was that he was in pre-k and decided not to poo because the Aide in class was telling the kids that poo is ugly. GRRRRRRRRR Hate to tell you but it took 3-4 years to get him to poo regularly again.

Since your son is older, the first thing I would do is ask him is why he doesn't want to poo. If he can give you a 'logical' answer, then it might be enough for you to start changing his thinking. Other than that, I'd start announcing when you are going to poo and when you're done come out being happy and saying how great you feel etc. Get everyone in the house to join in. Sounds silly but it's but you need to turn an aversion into a good thing, and this is one way to do it. (yes, husband and I did employ this tactic when working with son. He still continued with his issues, because it had become a physical habit, but he was less resistant when we made him sit and try to go poo.)

Check with his pediatrician also. There may be a condition I'm not aware of, but when I checked with our pediatrician I was just told to give laxatives, and stay away from binding foods. If it gets serious, you can give him enemas,and or take him to the dr for enemas. That alone may make him 'decide' to go on his own. Unfortunately, it can become a really bad physical habit and if it does/has then it will take longer to correct.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Hmmm... you've probably already ruled this out, but just in case... Is there any chance that some other bowel issue is at work? For example, a small tear that is making it painful to pass stool?

 

[rejectedmom]

Not sure how old your son is but mine had this behavior till he was ten. He sometimes "exploded" into his pants. Fortunately didn't do it at school but did once on a BS camping trip. Lucklily husband was there and took care of it before anyone knew. My son had some bathroom phobias that fed into this behavior and he did end up with encropsis for a bit but thankfully that resolved itself. -RM

 

[AnnieO]

Several years back Jett had an issue like this... BM kept sending really nasty messages through the visitation center saying we had to stop feeding the kids junk food because he was constipated when he came back from our house... We were totally bewildered till we found out totally by accident that the kids ate McDonald's ALL.THE.TIME. because grandma (BM's mom) worked there. Anyway, we totally stopped ever getting junk food, and it helped a little bit, then Jett mentioned he didn't like to go because it hurt. We had him for an entire month and managed to get things moving again, then it was back to the same... Only now he was asking BM for vegetables and fruit...

But anyway. I would also ask him why... If there is a reason, you can work with him. If not? Then it's more complicated...

And enemas are awful - I have had one that I remember, I was in high school, and it was TERRIBLE. I'd do anything to skip that ever again.

 

[DDD]

This is not uncommon, evidently, with those diagnosis's. Our youngest grandson literally would hold it until once it passed it wouldn't flush due to diameter and hardness. My mind is blank right now and I can't think of the over the counter pills I insisted that he take daily. It was not a laxative but added fluid into his digestive system. The problem was solved until me moved out as a young adult and he still does not ingest enough fluid to maintain normal functioning. Sorry you're going thru it. DDD

 

[Snowenne]

I did ask him the last time it got really bad (which was the first time ever) He told me it was because his poo hurt. So we told him that the longer he keeps the poo in the harder it will become and the more painful it will be to finally go. We keep telling him he should be pooing often but he wont listen. When he is fighting it and dancing around in pain if we tell him to go he will rip our heads off.
Told the dr. He didnt seem to care. Once again its like they dont realize that its severe and this is why im bringing it up to him. Its probably been over a week now probably close to 2 weeks since he last went. Glad to see though that this is somewhat common.

 

[Estherfromjerusalem]

Snowenne, if I were you I would go back to the doctor and force him to realize that it's urgent. Just imagine, two weeks of poop inside his intestines, of course it hurts terribly, and he needs help. The doctor for him to see is a pediatric gastroenterologist. My difficult child is now 24 years old, but he had encopresis for almost ten years, and it causes all sorts of complications and damage, both physical and emotional. The main cause of encopresis (no control over bowel movements) is constipation. So nip it in the bud now, get to a children's gastro doctor, and don't take no for an answer from any doctor until you see the right one who will help you. Two weeks -- that's just impossible!

I look forward to hearing that he's "gone" and that you have medical help. Put on your "warrior mom" armor and get out there fighting for him!

Hugs.

Love, Esther

 

[HaoZi]

Kiddo does the same toilet blocking movements. I always ask her why and she says she doesn't know. She acknowledges it's easier and less painful when she doesn't hold it for three days, but keeps doing it.

 

[keista]

TWO WEEKS????????

Yes! Listen to Esther! Get him to a Dr NOW....or you might end up in the ER.

 

[Marguerite]

We had this problem with both boys. difficult child 1 would routinely hold it in for a week or more, it literally need to be bullied out of him. He wouldn't do it in his nappy and wouldn't do it in the potty. It was as if he thought that it only existed once he excreted. Therefore he wasn't going to do it and then he wouldn't have to deal with it. He was about 3 years old at the time.

difficult child 3 also went through a phase of believing that excretion was something you could choose to ignore once you got old enough. One of my favourite memories was hearing difficult child 3 (at about 8 years old) get up in the morning, head to the loo (slamming into the door like a SWAT team on a raid) then hearing the sound of Niagara Falls from behind the door. Then I head an exasperated difficult child 3 announce in annoyed disbelief - "EVERY MORNING there's wee!"

This is a serious problem and you need to get into his head. Why is he doing this? Why is he trying to hold it in? In his mind, he could be just trying to pretend there is no need, trying to resolve the need to excrete with force of will (and our difficult children have force of will in spades!).

I'd shift the pediatrician. A rocket under him should suffice...

Marg

 

[susiestar]

This is a really serious problem. The doctor ignoring it is something you need to stop. You may need to speak to him with-o difficult child in the room, but he needs to know how serious it is. Or take difficult child to the er when he is dancing around in pain and let THEM deal with it. Not fun, but may need to happen.

You need to PUSH food with fiber in it. Fiber will draw moisture to hard poop, pull it out of diarrhea and create enough bulk that it cannot be held in. Go and get those fiber bars in the granola bar section of the grocery. Let him eat ALL he wants of them for a few days. Also get some of the Flatout Wraps - the light ones are very high in fiber and taste pretty good, esp the Italian ones. They add about as much fiber as one of the 90 cal Fiber One bars.

At this point he may actually not be ABLE to poop. The stool may be stuck to the sides of his bowels like concrete. To poop it will have to pull away from the walls and this is going to be PAINFUL. Years ago Jess got backed up and we tried everything. We learned about it because she had incredible pain in her lower back and spent Christmas day in tears. She was actually still having bowel movements that LOOKED like they were normal size or even big for a kid her age. But xrays showed a huge backup and lots of gas bubbles in there. Your son will also have the gas bubbles because they get trapped by the poop and then they get bigger as the poop breaks down in his body.

We did miralax (otc medication that is flavorless and odorless but literally greases the skids - some of the difficult children here have commented that it poops for you even if you don't want to), huge quantites of benefiber, enemas even the stuff they give you to drink before a colonoscopy. NOTHING worked. After a week the dr put her in the hospital overnight for a milk and molasses enema. Yup. Milk and molasses. It is an old home remedy that one of the older docs in town learned from his mother. It works. It CAN be done at home but out doctor had us do it int he hospital because Jess was really getting sick from the backup. They warmed up a jar of molasses (12 oz jar I think) and warmed up 12 oz of whole milk, mixed them and started. It took about 6 doses to get it all in and then out, but it worked. Since then I buy those fiber bars and lots of fruit and veggies and make homemade granola with lots of fiber in it. It has kept her from having problems again.

Asking why he is doing this is important, but it is also important to get his insides emptied out. He WILL end up seriously ill if you cannot get him to go at home. I would give it today (Tues) and if he hasn't gone by three or four I would head tot he hospital. It is possible for him Occupational Therapist (OT) get really ill - fever, all sorts of things- from the stool breaking down. He can also end up rupturing his intestines if too much is in there and it cannot get out. Or he could ned up totally blocked and nto being able to get any nutrition at all.

The throwing up is likely because the food cannot pass out of his stomach because the pipes are full. It is a serious sign that he may be in real trouble, the kind that may need surgery to fix. I grew up with a kid across the street who had his system cut open and part of the bowel taken out because he held his poop so long his bowel got gangrene. He almost died and will ALWAYS have trouble with nutrition and medications because he lost quite a lot of his large intestines. He will never be able to take any time release medications because they don't stay in long and he also doesn't like to eat out anywhere and cannot eat a lot of fatty foods or anything fried because it just runs out of him on its own due to the surgery.

 

[Snowenne]

I know you guys are thinking that I'm not really doing anything about this but I am. We have a laxative here. 2 of them that are tastless and odorless. We do give it to him when we see hes waited 3 days since the last. Then we start pumping the laxatives to help him. We take him to the hospital, tell them the problem they just look at you like really..so they make you wait way longer than you should. They let everyone else go first because not pooping is not a problem....When they finally take him in you explain the problem they tell you to give him prune juice. I tell them he doesnt like it and wont take it then they suggest the laxatives and leave it at that.
I am doing what I can to help my son but where I live the people are idiots I guess. ALl the way down to when I needed to refill his last adderall prescription I ended up having to pull teeth just to get the refill. I shouldnt have to do it this way but I do.

 

[Marguerite]

Glycerine suppositories?

It does sound like the local hospital are not believing you. What if you keep a diary of when he poops? Write down stuff like that as well as what you have done to try to treat it. Take the diary in with you (print out a copy for them to keep in his file) and make it clear - you have already tried everything and it is not enough.

Marg

 

[keista]

I know you guys are thinking that I'm not really doing anything about this but I am.

NOT TRUE We KNOW you are doing your very best!

OK, so the doctors don't believe you. Take him to the ER everyday that he does not poop. If he finally pops (This is gonna really sound gross) but if he finally does poo (probably explode) take a picture of it, with a ruler in the picture. It could look normal, and that won't help you much, but too often, it explodes out in this giant ball. The point of the poicture is to bring it with you NEXT time the issue comes up and doctors don't believe you. I got lucky that my son only exploded once - that was enough for him, never held it for a week ever again, but it didn't stop him from holding it for 3-4 days at a time.

 

[Snowenne]

See thats what Im trying to do this time around at the doctors. Since I am getting such attitude from them I am going with my backup stuff because I refuse to walk out of that office without anything. I will not go until I get what my son needs. I do have a diary and I did start it awhile ago. Not for the doctors to belive me but hoping it might give us some more clues as to what bugs him and to take it to court because we are starting a trial in august between me and his bio dad. Dad has same thing my son has. They are almost exact copies of each other ugh. Yet dad is fighting saying im once again pulling this out of nowhere even though he and the judge has the papers with his diagnosis from a reputible physciatrist. Even she said its not a good idea to introduce dad into the picture right now until we get him into a more comfortable state. So at the same time I am doing all this work and hes going to destroy everything and my son is the one who is suffering I am not in the right place (living in the town we do) we dont have alot of resources here. There are over 400 cases in this small town yet I feel like im the only one. I try, im on mat leave right now so I have all the time in the world to sit and research and do this and do that and thats what Im doing. But it pisses me off when I go to people for help and they give me such a hard time. doctors. hospitals, childrens aid. I think the only place that hasnt given us any problems is Kerrys Place.

 

[keista]

Marg brought up the question of a poo video game on another thread. Don't know if yu saw it so I thought I'd post what my kids recommended here.

http://www.addictinggames.com/action...ottyracers.jsp


It's a game called potty racers where they race outhouses. A possible way to create some levity of the situation with difficult child

 

[HaoZi]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002537/

At least they recognize that it's common in kids like ours.

 

[ready2run]

i've had this problem with my 12yo when she was younger. she had alot of toilet issues. i also used the glycerine suppositories. start with one. if that doesn't work, one more. i'd keeping going until she went. eventually it got so slippery she couldn't keep it from coming out anymore. putting them in wasn't the most pleasant experience for either of us, but they were effective.

as for taking the child to a gastroantologist or whatever, good luck with that! we have a public health care system and it doesn't work like that. you can't just decide you want to see a specific kind of doctor. you need a referal which is hard to get most of the time and then you need to wait on a long long long waiting list. the only chance you really have for medical intervention, in my opinion, is to convince your family doctor.