Marguerite
Active Member
I wrote earlier, I think in this tread, on how fast these kid can learn. The troubles around Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) (autism and Asperger's as well as Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified) are to do with their lacking the "social sense", the ability to learn social skills the same way the rest of us do. They have to learn a different way. Much of their learning is by observation, analysis, extrapolation, experimentation, observation again, filing the information and then repetition.
I'll give you an example.
difficult child 3 knew that the school rules included, "Do not climb trees. Do not hit other students. Any student hitting other students will be put on detention."
Now, difficult child 3's classroom was a long way from the office (the furthest) and also was behind the other buildings. Their teacher was always one of the last to turn up. Meanwhile the students were supposed to be lined up outside the class, waiting. There were a number of times when I also was there waiting, off to one side, for a quick word to the class teacher. So I observed a lot - these kids would misbehave in front of me, including tormenting my kid, in front of me. Brazen - because the teacher would do nothing about it even when I reported what I had observed. The boys would push and shove one another, often causing a domino effect that sent the kid on the end especially, falling over. Often the kid on the end was either difficult child 3 or another boy who was a bit "different" and also ostracised. But if difficult child 3 got up and shoved back, he would be in trouble. Even if the teacher didn't see it, the other boys would "dob" and support one another's stories. The teacher would listen to the boys' tales, but not even to me.
Now think about the message this sends to difficult child 3. The school rule is "Don't hit other students or you will be put on detention."
But in difficult child 3's mind, this is modified. Yes, these kids are very law-abiding, but it is the laws as they themselves understand them to be. In difficult child 3's mind the rule becomes, "Don't hit other students or you will be on detention - unless that other student is difficult child 3. Then you won't be in trouble."
Another rule in his mind, formed from the first, is "difficult child 3 will always be in trouble no matter what he does."
The ability to use logic to argue is definitely a big part of high-functioning Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). And think about it - these kids learn FAST! When they are learning, when it is within their capability. Obviously an English lesson teaching various abstract concepts could be beyond the ability of his brain to handle (although as he gets older and his brain matures more, that will change). But concrete facts and simple observations of "I do X, then Y happens," will often be learnt as fast as, or faster than, so-called "normal" kids.
Example again - we like to go to the beach. Because I often drive there (even though it is close by and a healthy person could walk there) I must take my wallet which has my driver's licence. Occasionally I drive from the beach to the shops on the way home to buy milk or bread.
ONCE I bought difficult child 3 an ice cream. I bought us each an ice cream. ONCE.
And ever after, every time we go to the beach, as we leave difficult child 3 asks, "Are we going to buy an ice cream? Please? You ALWAYS buy ice cream after we go to the beach!"
ONCE became ALWAYS.
After some years of me constantly refusing, difficult child 3 is earning that I don't always do this. But he remembered the one time that I did, in such delicious detail with such delight, that it swamps all other memories which pale into insignifcance.
This tells me that what he learns fastest, are the things which he really enjoys remembering, or which he has very strong emotions about remembering.
Those strong emotions can be negative - such as you and him arguing, you getting noisily upset (hey, we all do it). You might notice (I'm not sure but I would be surprised if this were not the case) that he gets upset when you shout. It may really set him off - often these kids are highly sensitive to noise, and also to strong emotion being expressed around them. Shouting at them is putting these two things together.
difficult child 3 learnt very early, how to push my buttons. But something I had to keep reminding myself (and it took his teachers longer to learn) - he is not deliberately trying to push your buttons. His aim is not to make you angry, his aim is instead to get what he wants. It is subtly different.
Now, some kids, those who are mischievous and bored, may try to push your buttons purely for their own amusement. But this actually takes a great deal of social sophistication.
So we have the same thing happening, apparently, but in reality it is two very different things at opposite ends of the social skills range.
If you are dealing with a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kid and he does seem to be pushing your buttons, then that is actually a really positive sign. It means that he is very high-functioning, able to mentally multi-task and has a very good prognosis. Such a kid will learn faster in social situations and also undoubtedly has something he is really good at which will make him of great value in the workplace. The added advantage is that generally, what they're good at is also something they love doing. They also tend to have a love for meticulous detail which other people would find tedious. In decades past, such kids might have eventually (if they were lucky) found themselves on an assembly line in a sheltered workshop, and probably been still able to find some level of personal job satisfaction even though there would have been much of the work routine and dull. These days there is more scope and a lot more support.
My experiences with my Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids in the workforce is still a bit limited, but so far we've had some good outcomes.
First difficult child 1 was working as a volunteer in a local zoo. He rapidly learned the facts about the animals but also learned their behaviour and personalities. In studying animal behaviour he was always extrapolating it to human behaviour. He also used his mimicry of the animals to great amusement of people around him.
Next job - difficult child 1 was working at a furniture factory. The boss quickly discovered his eye and feel for imperfections and put him on duty in the sanding booth. difficult child 1 was rapidly assessing furniture for flaws and rough finishes and the quality of the finished product leaving the factory went up. Economic downturn lost him tis job.
Current job - similar story, but he's at least being taught new techniques. He may take a little longer to get it right, but when he finally gets it, he's got it nailed in place. difficult child 1 is slower to learn because he can't mentally multi-task.
easy child 2/difficult child 2 - was working in retail, check-out chick (among other things). Her cash register would always balance. ALWAYS. She could never understand why the other girls' cash registers did not. "Why don't they keep track of the running tally in their head, like I do?" she asked me one day.
I did a double-take. "You do WHAT?"
She explained that with every transaction her mind casually notes how much has gone in, how much has gone out, plus she casts an eye over the notes and coins to ensure her mental rough estimate matches what she sees is still in there. She could not understand that most people can't do this.
And yet at school, she was only average in Maths.
difficult child 3 - he's not legally old enough to work (except under rare conditions) but has already been given money by various people for fixing their computers. He's coached a friend in Maths (easy child 2/difficult child 2 used to do this as well). Already difficult child 3 has shown that his future lies in computers.
To talk with difficult child 3 - he's very fluent when the conversation is on his terms or about what he wants. He's starting to be able to handle more abstract concepts, he's actually finding them interesting. difficult child 1 - very capable with abstract concepts. In fact, it's very difficult to tell these days that he's Aspie, unless you live with him. His wife, when they were merely going out together, didn't believe he was Aspie for a long time. Now they're married, she definitely knows it!
easy child 2/difficult child 2 is a brilliant manipulator. She could argue you blue in the face and still twist the knife of logic. She knows how to push buttons, well and truly. SHe observes how she best gets people's attention - and when she wants that attention she uses the fruits of her observation. It's as simple as that. Luckily for us, she is sufficiently socially capable that she knows (now) that to continually push people's buttons like this will cost her friends and so she doesn't do it much any more.
But crikey, as a youngster we were convinced she was heading for a career in law!
Marg
I'll give you an example.
difficult child 3 knew that the school rules included, "Do not climb trees. Do not hit other students. Any student hitting other students will be put on detention."
Now, difficult child 3's classroom was a long way from the office (the furthest) and also was behind the other buildings. Their teacher was always one of the last to turn up. Meanwhile the students were supposed to be lined up outside the class, waiting. There were a number of times when I also was there waiting, off to one side, for a quick word to the class teacher. So I observed a lot - these kids would misbehave in front of me, including tormenting my kid, in front of me. Brazen - because the teacher would do nothing about it even when I reported what I had observed. The boys would push and shove one another, often causing a domino effect that sent the kid on the end especially, falling over. Often the kid on the end was either difficult child 3 or another boy who was a bit "different" and also ostracised. But if difficult child 3 got up and shoved back, he would be in trouble. Even if the teacher didn't see it, the other boys would "dob" and support one another's stories. The teacher would listen to the boys' tales, but not even to me.
Now think about the message this sends to difficult child 3. The school rule is "Don't hit other students or you will be put on detention."
But in difficult child 3's mind, this is modified. Yes, these kids are very law-abiding, but it is the laws as they themselves understand them to be. In difficult child 3's mind the rule becomes, "Don't hit other students or you will be on detention - unless that other student is difficult child 3. Then you won't be in trouble."
Another rule in his mind, formed from the first, is "difficult child 3 will always be in trouble no matter what he does."
The ability to use logic to argue is definitely a big part of high-functioning Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). And think about it - these kids learn FAST! When they are learning, when it is within their capability. Obviously an English lesson teaching various abstract concepts could be beyond the ability of his brain to handle (although as he gets older and his brain matures more, that will change). But concrete facts and simple observations of "I do X, then Y happens," will often be learnt as fast as, or faster than, so-called "normal" kids.
Example again - we like to go to the beach. Because I often drive there (even though it is close by and a healthy person could walk there) I must take my wallet which has my driver's licence. Occasionally I drive from the beach to the shops on the way home to buy milk or bread.
ONCE I bought difficult child 3 an ice cream. I bought us each an ice cream. ONCE.
And ever after, every time we go to the beach, as we leave difficult child 3 asks, "Are we going to buy an ice cream? Please? You ALWAYS buy ice cream after we go to the beach!"
ONCE became ALWAYS.
After some years of me constantly refusing, difficult child 3 is earning that I don't always do this. But he remembered the one time that I did, in such delicious detail with such delight, that it swamps all other memories which pale into insignifcance.
This tells me that what he learns fastest, are the things which he really enjoys remembering, or which he has very strong emotions about remembering.
Those strong emotions can be negative - such as you and him arguing, you getting noisily upset (hey, we all do it). You might notice (I'm not sure but I would be surprised if this were not the case) that he gets upset when you shout. It may really set him off - often these kids are highly sensitive to noise, and also to strong emotion being expressed around them. Shouting at them is putting these two things together.
difficult child 3 learnt very early, how to push my buttons. But something I had to keep reminding myself (and it took his teachers longer to learn) - he is not deliberately trying to push your buttons. His aim is not to make you angry, his aim is instead to get what he wants. It is subtly different.
Now, some kids, those who are mischievous and bored, may try to push your buttons purely for their own amusement. But this actually takes a great deal of social sophistication.
So we have the same thing happening, apparently, but in reality it is two very different things at opposite ends of the social skills range.
If you are dealing with a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kid and he does seem to be pushing your buttons, then that is actually a really positive sign. It means that he is very high-functioning, able to mentally multi-task and has a very good prognosis. Such a kid will learn faster in social situations and also undoubtedly has something he is really good at which will make him of great value in the workplace. The added advantage is that generally, what they're good at is also something they love doing. They also tend to have a love for meticulous detail which other people would find tedious. In decades past, such kids might have eventually (if they were lucky) found themselves on an assembly line in a sheltered workshop, and probably been still able to find some level of personal job satisfaction even though there would have been much of the work routine and dull. These days there is more scope and a lot more support.
My experiences with my Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids in the workforce is still a bit limited, but so far we've had some good outcomes.
First difficult child 1 was working as a volunteer in a local zoo. He rapidly learned the facts about the animals but also learned their behaviour and personalities. In studying animal behaviour he was always extrapolating it to human behaviour. He also used his mimicry of the animals to great amusement of people around him.
Next job - difficult child 1 was working at a furniture factory. The boss quickly discovered his eye and feel for imperfections and put him on duty in the sanding booth. difficult child 1 was rapidly assessing furniture for flaws and rough finishes and the quality of the finished product leaving the factory went up. Economic downturn lost him tis job.
Current job - similar story, but he's at least being taught new techniques. He may take a little longer to get it right, but when he finally gets it, he's got it nailed in place. difficult child 1 is slower to learn because he can't mentally multi-task.
easy child 2/difficult child 2 - was working in retail, check-out chick (among other things). Her cash register would always balance. ALWAYS. She could never understand why the other girls' cash registers did not. "Why don't they keep track of the running tally in their head, like I do?" she asked me one day.
I did a double-take. "You do WHAT?"
She explained that with every transaction her mind casually notes how much has gone in, how much has gone out, plus she casts an eye over the notes and coins to ensure her mental rough estimate matches what she sees is still in there. She could not understand that most people can't do this.
And yet at school, she was only average in Maths.
difficult child 3 - he's not legally old enough to work (except under rare conditions) but has already been given money by various people for fixing their computers. He's coached a friend in Maths (easy child 2/difficult child 2 used to do this as well). Already difficult child 3 has shown that his future lies in computers.
To talk with difficult child 3 - he's very fluent when the conversation is on his terms or about what he wants. He's starting to be able to handle more abstract concepts, he's actually finding them interesting. difficult child 1 - very capable with abstract concepts. In fact, it's very difficult to tell these days that he's Aspie, unless you live with him. His wife, when they were merely going out together, didn't believe he was Aspie for a long time. Now they're married, she definitely knows it!
easy child 2/difficult child 2 is a brilliant manipulator. She could argue you blue in the face and still twist the knife of logic. She knows how to push buttons, well and truly. SHe observes how she best gets people's attention - and when she wants that attention she uses the fruits of her observation. It's as simple as that. Luckily for us, she is sufficiently socially capable that she knows (now) that to continually push people's buttons like this will cost her friends and so she doesn't do it much any more.
But crikey, as a youngster we were convinced she was heading for a career in law!
Marg
