any ideas?

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Jena, Oct 16, 2008.

  1. Jena

    Jena New Member


    i need some ideas bigtime. difficult child is having major social issues. yes it is a work in progress at this point. have appointment. with dr. on tuesday night to discuss medication's again since thorazine wans't an option for me. am waiting on call back from a therapist that i want her to see. we stopped the last therapist dr. my ex and i felt that she was way way too passive. difficult child spent several mos just drawing pictures with absolutely no communication, there were no ideas given on how to handle stuff with difficult child, and therapist eventually said she wasn't comfortable handling difficult child without a pyschdoc on board (was looking for current pyshdoc at that time). anyway that's not the point she's gone, was no help at all. so soon we should have therapist in place and medication. i do not want to medicate i am afraid it will affect her theater class she is in now, as well as her sleep iv'e gotten down pat for now with the natural stuff, and also there's enough good there to work with as of late. yet this social anxiety issue is climaxing yet again due to certain factors.

    difficult child made two friends in this school, it's her 2nd year in it. she made them because they were in her anxiety class last year that she attended in school. without that small setting of 5 girls it wouldnt' of happened. i set up play dates and made contact as soon as she mentioned the two girls names, yet now those two girls have alot of other friends and quite honestly are getting tired of hanging out with difficult child who talks to no one but them. so difficult child is now alone in playground again at recess, feeling lost, running to nurse with severe anxiety attacks, isn't eating except for few bites of crackers so it's heightening once again.

    she began hysterical crying tonight at bedtime, she hasn't done this in a while. she said what do i do? i have no friends at school my two friends don't want to bother with me anymore and i'm scared and alone and i can feel my heart beating through my chest when i'm at lunch or in the playground. i feel so sick so i run to the nurse and she helps me calm down i spend recess with her and then i go back to class. so, tell me what to do mom. we have tried in therapy and at home role reversals to teach her how to communicate to people she doens't adhere and wont' do it, i've tried buddy system at school asked teacher to pair her with an outgoing kid who only wound up calling her a freak, i've tried various approaches, i've even gone as far as to make sure that her clothes are exactly waht she likes so she feels very comfortable more than just ok wear this today but making sure material is what she likes she has sensory issues, spend time making her exactly what she wants even if it means refixing it in the car after parking out in front of school.

    so is this where i am now with this? her social anxiety is so so bad. she lost her two friends as of late and now here we are again it's almost like boom brand new bldg. brand new school, new kid syndrome.

    she's expecting some kind of answer from me over breakfast tomorrow morning and i don't have one for her. i had to give her something to hold onto so she'd go to bed for me and not cry all night and get worse. yet i have no idea what to tell her. i can feel my anxiety escalate when i get upset from hearing her be upset i do not dare ever get upset or cry infront of her yet it builds i'm soo soo sick of this.

    ok thanks for letting me vent and any ideas you can think of i'd love to hear them. at this point i hate to do the avoidance thing i'm thinking of picking her up for lunch tomorrow so she doen'st have to feel that way i know that's bad.
  2. Andy

    Andy Active Member

    Ask her to look around and see if there is one other person who is alone. Go over to that person and ask if her/she wants to play or talk. She can ask what that person plans to do for Halloween to start a conversation.

    Or, if she notices two kids playing quietly, she can ask to join in. Tell her that at first it may help to go along with whatever the rules of the play are and wait until they spend more time together to make suggestions of change.

    Do you know any of the kids? Is there one you can invite over to play with difficult child outside of school?
  3. Jena

    Jena New Member


    thanks for responding. she won't talk to anyone else other than the two girls at this point. she really won't. her social skills are non existant. i said exactly what you had mentioned and she just doesn't knwo how to do it, wants to do it yet can't get past that anxiety. medications here we come again.......
  4. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    Is she in an anxiety class again this year?

    Can the school counselor facilitate some friendship opportunities?

    Instead of going out for recess, can she be paired with another girl to help another teacher in her classroom (my younger daughter sometimes uses her recess to help the art teacher with a 4th grade class)?

    Is there a before- or after-school activity she can participate in to help her meet other girls at school (my daughter does a girls running program on school grounds before classes begin)?

    How is she doing socially in her theatre arts program?
  5. Jena

    Jena New Member


    they won't allow her i thought of that as well to help out in class sort of thing. anxiety class isn't running this year. problem is you can pop her in social settings yet she just goes inward.

    in her theatre group just to watch her, wow. she talks to no one, at all ever. she is basically alone in there as well. yet like i said her "want" to be like other kids as she puts it is soo great that she keeps trying so hard. wow she is so cute. yet you can see her nervous in there, unsure, her tics come out in there when she gets excited watching other kids perform or sing. difficult child has always derived her pleasure on some small level from watching other kids play, never from her playing with them.

    yet now its beginning to change. i found out last week girls in school yard were abusing her. they are the cool girls of the 4th grade and they have difficult child moving all their lunchboxes all 5 of them around the school yard and making fun of her while she does it. because she's alone she's an easy target.

    i'm going back to doctor tuesday yet if she will not respond well to prozac, or any ssri's it's kind of like i'm screwed because i'm not popping thorazine in her to get her to talk to kids and have social skills. ya know what i mean? tha'Tourette's Syndrome just crazy.

    you can put difficult child in any social situation and she will not talk or speak, that's just the way it is. yet she's not one of those children with whom are ok with being loner's, she's totally not and i strongly believe this has attributed to her major depressive disorder diagnosis, and to the moodiness and the rest of it.

    i'm so disgusted tonight, sorry. it's just she looks to me to solve things for her and i cna't solve this one. school is of no help in facilitating friendships with her. they did try but what can you do with a kid who is too anxiety ridden in those situations to talk? only way it ever works is one on one. she has two friends for that yet as i said their tired of being with her all the time. one actually said to her point blank you have to make other friends because i can't always be with you. i think that was two weeks ago. at least she gave her forewarning she was flying the coop.

    ugh. i know it's a long road ahead i know therapy is imperative part of this. yet drugs may be as well. if i knew if i gave her a pill her anxiety would lower and she'd be able to talk to other kids, socialize etc. she needs to learn socialization skills also that's soo lacking i would give her a pill. yet whenever we try something it just doens't do it.
  6. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    Jen, in your shoes, I'd give Seroquel another try. If you're concerned about weight gain, you can pair it with Zonegran or Topamax, which suppress appetite.
  7. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It


    To be absolutely honest, the anxiety is crippling her. You need a therapist who will teach her to handle the anxiety. You also may need medications to help handle it. I don't think there will be a solution by breakfast. If there was, you would have found it YEARS ago, because I know you have been looking that hard for it.

    I know medications are a tough call. But I really think something for anxiety would be the best place to start. Even something herbal - what do your books say? Heck, can you find a new candy she has never seen and tell her it is an anxiety pill (sort of like Dumbo's feather, a placebo) to help her open up. Tell her it will help her talk in group settings.

    You may have to consider a small group school. I know we investigated schools in OH and found one with class sizes of 5-6 kids, it was for gifted kids, Wiz would have fit in, but no way was the tuition do-able (cost more than 2 years of college at a private school for just one year!). what does the school counsellor say to help? anything?

    Have you considered homeschooling, if the anxiety is that crippling? The anxiety must be having an impact on her schoolwork. I remember being that kid alone at recess. I actually didn't SPEAK during an entire school year. I felt the other kids hated me, I hated some of them, and I was so dang lonely. No one told my parents - not even wehn I refused to talk to the priest (Catholic school) or even in confession. Don't know what they would have done, but anyway, I truely feel her pain.

    Maybe a medication like atarax? it is an anxiety medication that we used for Jess. It is an antihistamine, but also works on anxiety. It isn't addictive and DID help Jess through those rough months after Wiz left teh house.

    I really hope and pray you can find a way for her to tame the anxiety tiger. It is such a shame it is ruling her life.

    Check your books, talk to the docs, maybe even teach her to meditate? It would calm her if nothing else. Get to an Occupational Therapist (OT) and learn the PROPER way to brush her - THAT and a full sensory workup may do more than you could ever dream for the anxiety.

    I know that the brushing (done properly, with joint compressions) helped thank you pull out of his shell. He wouldn't talk for quite a while at school, other than in class discussions. Now he has SIX friends!!!! For him that is a record.

    I honestly and truely think that seeing a private Occupational Therapist (OT) to find out difficult child's full sensory issues will be one of the key things to help her with this. And as I said in other posts, if you are doing the brushing improperly it can cause real problems (be SURE not to brush her stomach, EVER! according to our Occupational Therapist (OT)).

    Much hugs,

  8. Jena

    Jena New Member


    so, seroquel why do you say that out of curiosity? that's not a known anti anxiety medication.

    susie - i have taught her meditation, yoga, visualization techniques. the herbal doesn't do the trip for the anxiety issue. we tried that drug you mentioned that you had jess on i simply forgot about it. yet difficult child flies on any type of anxiety medication thus far and anthestimes wow she is beyond hyper on that. crippling, yes it is without a doubt. i checked out private school nearby it's too expensive i can't afford it adn there is no type of funding for it. homeschooling she'd love yet i need to find a job which i've been searching for inbetween working the small paralegal business i've opened, with one attny client at this point.

    i took her out today for lunch, out of the bldg that is. seemed to make her a.m. fly better only one trip to the nurse. it ensured she also ate which she doesn't in school. her anxiety is crippling. and like i said if iknew i could find an anti anxiety medication to help her i'd give it to her now. yet nothing has worked out of hte class of drugs we have tried thus far.

    we have our usual friday playdate with one of the two friends. yet she didn't want to go to their house today she feels too confined there and her friend doesn't play with her so difficult child winds up with the anxiety and sitting with me and her friend's mom and not doing anything so i'm trying to set up park again to see if that'll work.

    yes i strongly believe at this point that she needs a medication in place accompanied by a whole lot of therapy than maybe when she's calm enough to learn the techniques she can then be weened off drug. i just feel bad that we have tried the drugs in past and nothing seems to work.

    any ideas on how to work this one on the iep? or what to do at recess besides seeing if a teacher needs help. it's unfortunate susie as i'm sure you know yourself this is the same group of kids she'll travel with now through junior high in a year and a half as well. if she's not making connections now i can't imagine how she'll handle jr. high school. i know stick to now not the future.
  9. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    Seroquel is absolutely used off-label for anxiety. In addition, if a bipolar-like mood disorder is present, Seroquel will not induce mania the way an SSRI might (in fact, Seroquel also treats mania). Seroquel also helps with sleep, which you were having difficulty with prior to the natural treatment you started. That's why I mentioned it as a possibility.
  10. Jena

    Jena New Member

    thanks! i just got in with difficult child from park. I looked up exactly what you said and they just recently did a study that is now written in the medical journal stating just that. seroquel is known to combat anxiety issues and major depressive disorder. see a year and a half ago it was pushed as the BiPolar (BP) treatment, etc. by the dr. so i have the mtg. on tuesday night and will discuss it with him.

    she had a good time at park which was nice she didn't look to bolt and switching her dad pick up to tomorrow a.m. instead of tonight helped a bit as well. so she's got her show's on and is happy in her pajamas. :) picking her up for lunch was good too. it's bad habit to start yet she was so happy to see me. she ate lunch and returned to school with-no problem.
  11. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    It sounds like seroquel might be an option. I didn't know you had trouble with antihistamines, wow, what do you do during allergy season?

    Has anyone tried any of the benzodiazipines? I know they are not commonly used in kids, but if you have tried everything else, well, maybe someone will help you give htat a try? I took a VERY low dose of xanax for YEARS with-o ever going up - it just took the edge off of my anxiety. Xanax is alprazolam. Valium is diazepam, and if used for more than a couple of weeks is a major depressant. Lorazepam seems to be the choice for long-term anxiety treatment among this group, from what the psychiatrists have told me. It is a THOUGHT, though I know you want to stay away from this kind of medication. It couldn't be riskier than thorazine (I know YOU had the sense to say NO to that, but the psychiatrist didn't).

    anyway, you have really worked hard to teach her all sorts of tools to handle this. What does The Bipolar Child say about anxiety? It seems to be the "bible" for bipolar, and was packed with info, maybe there is something in that book to help her?

    I KNOW how hard it is to end up sitting iwth the adults, though, to be honest, for may years I thought the ohter kids were idiots adn was happier listening to the adults gossip adn chat. BUT I was very anxiety ridden at school - and back then no one did anything about anxiety in kids because a kid's life was "carefree" don'tcha know?


  12. Jena

    Jena New Member

    thank goodness she has no allergies. otherwise i'd be in trouble. we first learned of her reaction to medications when she was a year and a half and jumped out of crib and shattered her arm in multiple places. it took two days to get an o.r. for her surgery so they started putting some type of pain reliever supposed to knock her out into her iv. she flew off the hanlde started pulling iv out, screaming, pulling on metal bars on crib it was a total chaotic scene. ex and i had to call in my mom for help because we were both besides ourselves, dirty from the two days in hospital, hungry. 5 hour surgery later she was repaired yet it was hard even then finding the right drug to knock her out in the operating room, wow the stuff you remember.

    seroquel might be the trick once again. i'll talk to him on tuesday night at the appointment. she's already asking how are we giong to handle next week? next week is in the smaller playground, they alternate she hates that one. no swings or monkey bars to hide on or in just an open field. she'll be anxiety ridden the entire week. i was a shy kid yet such a difference between shy and her. i have to say she is holding her own, yet she is a stubborn little person. hence not adhering to anything being taught to her she's thick headed just like her mom :) someday she can use that for good not evil ha ha

    she is so logical too she kills me. she looked at me tonight and said ok here's the deal we both know i have alot of problems but i want a pill one pill tha'Tourette's Syndrome going to do the trick i'm tired of doctors and therapists and all this other junk. i want to play, i want to talk, i want to do these things yet i just can't i try so so hard and it's just not happening and it's frustrating and making me mad and it makes me very very sad and it makes me not want to get up in the morning. i know you tried mom and i know you keep trying but try harder.

    she's way way too much. she was almost yelling at me at one point. i just let her fly with it i can imagine her frustration level at this point. she said ok so i'm almost ten that means i've been having sleep problems for all this time and you still haven't figuerd out what the problem is??

    wow. can you imagine?
  13. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    Most psychiatrists will prescribe Benzodiazapines (Klonopin, Ativan, Xanax, etc) only in the short-term for children because their long-term use can result in addiction. They can also cause disinhibition.