Any other difficult children have disordered thoughts?

[gcvmom]

One of the therapist's difficult child 2 saw recently said that he was displaying evidence of disordered thoughts. He based this statement on some pictures he asked difficult child 2 to draw and how difficult child 2 described them for the therapist.

When therapist showed them to me, my initial reaction was "difficult child 2 is just being silly." They were some stick figures, one or two doing inappropriate things, and a scribble that he had a very specific, though convoluted explanation for. But then I remembered the comment therapist made, that I probably tend to "normalize" much of GFG2s behavior because I am in it up to my eyeballs, so to speak. I guess it's how I keep my sanity from completely slipping away...

I'm still thinking about all this and wondering if any other difficult child kids out there have ever had this said of them? I worry that I'm not seeing things clearly sometimes.

 

[BusynMember]

Can you give an example of "disordered thoughts?" I'm not sure what you mean. My son has trouble explaining things, but that's because he's on the autism spectrum and has the expected trouble with abstract thinking.

 

[busywend]

I am not sure what you mean either? I can agree that most difficult children I have heard about on this board have a 'different' way of thinking than the easy child.

 

[DDD]

As in "off the wall" ?? As in "interjected ideas shared in the
midst of others conversations about a specific unrelated topic"?
As in "opinions that make no sense on topics he knows nothing
about"?

All the above, around here. DDD

 

[ML]

My son will sometimes journey far with comments in a conversation that may seem unrelated. But usually, if I think hard enough I can often find a connection. He forgets nothing and his long term memory is a curse I think. He'll pull things out of the hat that I had long since forgotten but he's connected with something current. I'm sure in his mind it makes perfect sense.

 

[Steely]

When my son was tested a long time ago, the psychiatrist said the same thing, and I had the same reaction. They had given him a scenario of being on an island, and asked him how he would get off - and he had some answer that was completely illogical. I just assumed that my son was being creative, or silly - he was only 6 at the time - and he is very, very creative.........I could not figure out why the psychiatrist assumed he had disordered or distorted thinking.

Then we went on an antipsychotic and suddenly I noticed that his thinking was clearer. He could figure out how to get from point A to point B without going through points X,Y, and Z first. He did not make up details in stories that were not there (again, I just thought he was lying before). And he was able to think about a situation without getting bogged down in inconsequential details (which lead to less blow ups because he did not perceive as many things as troubling). It is hard to explain, and very hard to see if you are in the middle of it, but I do know what your psychiatrist is talking about.

Recently we have had to discontinue his Seroquel, and his disordered thinking is the first thing I noticed then he went off of it. Funny, how now I had gotten used to his clear thinking, where before it was the opposite.

Does your doctor have any suggestions as in how to help your son's thinking?

 

[Hound dog]

As in "off the wall" ?? As in "interjected ideas shared in the
midst of others conversations about a specific unrelated topic"?
As in "opinions that make no sense on topics he knows nothing
about"?

Hey triple D that's both my husband and Travis.

And those two wonder why everyone refrains from asking them things unless it's absolutely necessary.

Heck even Nichole and I have "disordered thoughts". I can keep a 4 subject conversation going with my best friend and still manage to interject other topics out of the blue. The wonder is that she's also bipolar and can keep up with me without batting an eye. Maybe that's why we're best friends.

I dunno. If you haven't seen anything to truely be worried about, then I'd hesitate to let myself over react to the docs comments.

During Travis second neuropsychologist evaluation you should have seen the looks the doctor was giving us in reaction to Travis' answers to his questions. I kept wondering if he was going to recommend commital before we left the office. lol But you simply cannot ask the boy open ended questions or offer him senderios to fill in, God only knows what will come out of his mouth. lol

 

[gcvmom]

Can you give an example of "disordered thoughts?" I'm not sure what you mean.

The psychologist asked difficult child 2 to draw his family, and he drew a series of crude stick figures, with himself holding a "200 pound steel rod" because "I'm strong." He drew me "sitting on the toilet", he drew his brother "kicking my butt in SSX Blur [a video game]" and he drew his sister "picking her nose". husband was a stick figure "jumping for joy".

The second picture I completely forget what it was -- but I just remember it was another very crude stick figure and the explanation was just nonsense.

The last picture was to be of anything he wanted. It came out as a scribbled mess of circles, which he described as "an atom that's going to blow up -- boom!"

Also, my mom took the three kids to a ceramics shop where they got to paint their own pieces, and she was commenting to me last night that she did not understand what difficult child 2 was thinking when he was working on his piece. The way he applied the glazes made no sense to her. I wasn't there, so who knows... we pick up the piece today so maybe that will tell me more.

I just wonder if I sometimes see more than is really there with difficult child 2, or am I totally glossing over stuff because I'm so close to it?

 

[Mrs Smith]

The psychologist asked difficult child 2 to draw his family, and he drew a series of crude stick figures, with himself holding a "200 pound steel rod" because "I'm strong." He drew me "sitting on the toilet", he drew his brother "kicking my butt in SSX Blur [a video game]" and he drew his sister "picking her nose". husband was a stick figure "jumping for joy".

The second picture I completely forget what it was -- but I just remember it was another very crude stick figure and the explanation was just nonsense.

The last picture was to be of anything he wanted. It came out as a scribbled mess of circles, which he described as "an atom that's going to blow up -- boom!"

Also, my mom took the three kids to a ceramics shop where they got to paint their own pieces, and she was commenting to me last night that she did not understand what difficult child 2 was thinking when he was working on his piece. The way he applied the glazes made no sense to her. I wasn't there, so who knows... we pick up the piece today so maybe that will tell me more.

I just wonder if I sometimes see more than is really there with difficult child 2, or am I totally glossing over stuff because I'm so close to it?

Hi gcvmom. Just wanted to say how much this sounds like my spectrum kid. From my point of view it's nonsense but he always seems to have an explanation and it's usually about destruction or randomness. I wonder why he drew you sitting on the toilet? It would be interesting to find out. LOL!

 

[BusynMember]

I have a spectrum kid too, but he wouldn't draw things like that. He couldn't draw very well...lol...but he wouldn't show hurtful or bizarre drawings, probably more like stick figures. I have no idea what's going on, but I'll tell you what I'd do if it were my kid. I'm a mom who never glosses over anything because I believe that early intervention in any problem is the key. This doesn't sound like typical behavior (I've already raised three kids to adulthood and one Spectrum kid to 14 and have one 11 year old--I guess you can see that on my signature...lol). I would very first off take your son (if he were MY son) to a Child Psychiatrist (with the MD) to see what he thought, and I'd bring the pictures. Most importantly, I'd want my child to have a neuropsychologist evaluation, which is hours of very intensive testing to explore all areas of how the child thinks. That's how we found out my son is on the Spectrum and now that we know, trust me, it's unbelievable to us that nobody else caught it. However, not all Spectrum kids have bizarre thoughts. My son doesn't. More than one thing can be going on at the same time (co-morbidity), another reason why I'd want a neuropsychologist exam first and foremost. No other professionals does the intensive testing that NeuroPsychs do, and in my opinion they are the best professionals at narrowing down problem areas and coming up with solutions. in my opinion, more is going on than ADHD.

 

[TerryJ2]

Sequoia, all I could think about, reading your note, was that if someone asked me how I would get off an island, I would say, "WHY? I'm staying!!!!" LOL!

DDD, I'll 2nd and 3rd that motion--an opinion on topics he knows nothing about! LOL!

My son has difficulty with-answering Q like that, too, so the neuropsychologist referred us to a speech therapist for testing. difficult child actually speaks clearly and has a great vocab, but he takes forever with-"creative thought" and putting solutions into words. You have to prompt him and suggest things in proper order. That's one of the reasons I had him tested for Asperger's (to no avail).

Sometimes disordered thinking has a biological component, and sometimes is psychological. Figuring out the hows and whys, and better yet, what to do about it, is the hard part.

Best of luck, gcvmom. Wish I had something to offer besides support.

 

[Mrs Smith]

I have a spectrum kid too, but he wouldn't draw things like that. He couldn't draw very well...lol...but he wouldn't show hurtful or bizarre drawings, probably more like stick figures. I have no idea what's going on, but I'll tell you what I'd do if it were my kid. I'm a mom who never glosses over anything because I believe that early intervention in any problem is the key. This doesn't sound like typical behavior (I've already raised three kids to adulthood and one Spectrum kid to 14 and have one 11 year old--I guess you can see that on my signature...lol). I would very first off take your son (if he were MY son) to a Child Psychiatrist (with the MD) to see what he thought, and I'd bring the pictures. Most importantly, I'd want my child to have a neuropsychologist evaluation, which is hours of very intensive testing to explore all areas of how the child thinks. That's how we found out my son is on the Spectrum and now that we know, trust me, it's unbelievable to us that nobody else caught it. However, not all Spectrum kids have bizarre thoughts. My son doesn't. More than one thing can be going on at the same time (co-morbidity), another reason why I'd want a neuropsychologist exam first and foremost. No other professionals does the intensive testing that NeuroPsychs do, and in my opinion they are the best professionals at narrowing down problem areas and coming up with solutions. in my opinion, more is going on than ADHD.

Hi MidwestMom. Sorry if I misrepresented the spectrum - have updated my sig to include co-morbids.

I am curious, though, what you saw in the drawings as hurtful or bizarre? I kind of interpreted the randomness as characteristic of the lack of central cohesion common to the spectrum. You know - not being able to see the forest through the trees. His representations were focused on minor details and not a more succinct gist.

Having a very complicated kid, I always like to compare notes. Maybe this is a co-morbid non-verbal Learning Disability (LD) vs asperger's issue?

Thanks for your feedback.

Josie

 

[BusynMember]

Oh, don't apologize :smile: There is NO one type of spectrum kid! :smile:

What did I find odd? Reading back, maybe nothing was violent, but I'd want to see a neuropsychologist anyways. I thought that he held a 200 lb. steel rod was kind of strange--perhaps gradiose manic thinking? I have no idea. My kid never would have thought of that...lol. Showing you on the toilet and brother kicking you was, in my opinion, strange for a ten year old. And the atom bomb--I don't know. Violent? I have no clue, truly, I don't know, it's something that would unsettle me at least enough to check it out by having my child take a complete evaluation. I am not convinced that they are Spectrum issues although it is true that Spectrum kids are all unique. My own son is very logical, black-and-white in thinking, and lacking in imagination. He is quirky, but not prone to bizarre thoughts. What does it mean? I haven't a clue. If it were mine, I would subscribe to my good ole mantra: "It's better to be safe than sorry." And I'd go without having dread in my but because the neuropsychologist may have a perfectly good explanation for you that isn't frightening at all. I don't believe in looking for trouble, but I also do strongly believe in leaving NO stone unturned. Hope this clarified :smile:

 

[Running_for_the_shelter]

Not sure what this says about me, but I didn't think the family picture was all that strange. True, it wasn't the people-pleasing drawing (sweet, smiling family arranged by age) that many cubs would draw, but jeez, he didn't leave out key people, add folks you never heard of, drew the people killing each other or anything. Maybe you can get more info from the doctor next time. I thought Sequoia's post was really interesting. I haven't been on as much as I'd like lately, but I'm definitely interested in seeing how your cub progresses. Good luck!

 

[gcvmom]

Well, I guess I'll be calling UCLA on Monday to see just how long the wait list is for an evaluation. He had a cognitive and behavioral evaluation done about 3 years ago as part of a genetic study for ADHD. We got the report, (all testing was done off-medications) and it basically supported the ADHD-combined type diagnosis, and that he was a really, really bright kid. Maybe that's what I'm seeing in the "silly" drawings" -- his creative mind just taking an idea and expanding it (but forgetting to take us with him so we understand how he got there). But he hadn't had the weird manic reactions to medications like he has recently, so there's nothing in that report to account for what we have now.

Anyway, UCLA said at the time that they could provide referrals for additional testing services if desired, so I think that will be a good place to start.

Thanks, everyone, for the comments and feedback. I'll keep ya posted!