Any Warrior Moms Reading Right Now? Need Some Quick Help...

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by DaisyFace, Apr 12, 2011.

  1. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    I've just found out that the "Powers that Be" have met amongst themselves and have determined, in their infinite wisdom, that the solution to our family's issues is....

    *Bing! *Bing! *Bing!

    A Behavior Chart.

    State Caseworker wants to know what goals to put on the chart.

    I told her that our Number One Priority is the safety of our family. There was a reeeaaaalllllllyyyyyyy.........llllllloooooooonnnnngggggg.......pause...

    And then caseworker said "Well, that's not a measurable goal that can go on a chart." She wondered if perhaps we could work on grades instead.

    I told her that without safety....everything else means nothing.

    Caseworker got frustrated with me.

    So now, I'm supposed to email her by the end of the day with some measurable goals that can be charted.

    Regardless of Caseworker's attitude - safety is #1. I need difficult child to keep her hands off DS. Period.

    Any ideas how to state that as a measurable goal?

    Cause frankly, without safety - I don't give a rat's a** if difficult child studies hard enough to be Valedictorian!
  2. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    difficult child needs to work on keeping her hands to herself.
    difficult child works on not touching her brother without express permission.

    Behavior chart. Pfoo.

    Parents will know where difficult child is at all times.
    difficult child will not be late for any scheduled activity or pick up.

    Heck, it's a start. Not that it will do a d*mn bit of good.
  3. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    Break out unsafe behaviors individually.

    difficult child will assault 0 people per hour.
    difficult child will go AWOL 0 times per hour/day/minute - whatever time unit you want.
    difficult child will destroy no property per (time frame).
    difficult child will verbally threaten 0 people per (time frame).
    difficult child will use drugs 0 times per hour.
    difficult child will have sex 0 times per day.

    You get the idea.

    Do the behavior chart - these folks aren't going to get that behavior charts are useless with- difficult child until they see it for themselves. Some professionals are just like that. Be cooperative and "enthusiastic", so that you are seen as a cooperating parent and when their brilliant idea doesn't work, they won't have any reason to fault you.
  4. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I hate bureaucrats and their stupid senseless goals. Maybe the goal should be "difficult child keeps her hands to herself at all times"? Or, 0 violence at home?

    Stick to your guns, and let them know that you don't give a rat's skinny ear if she gets straight A's and suddenly can do all the ROTC requirements if your other child is bruised and bloody. I don't think that you should use words like "easy child is safe", instead use words that paint vivid pictures, like "easy child is not bruised or bloodied". Caseworker won't like it.

    The sad part of all of this is that you are going to have to go along with the flippin chart or else they will say they "tried" to help but you wouldn't cooperate or "let them". GRRRRR.

    I am sorry they are so stupid.
  5. Jody

    Jody Active Member

    I am also sorry that they are so stupid. Ugh, why can they not get it? My daughter makes straight A's and is on the high honor roll, but will hurl things at my head like they are nothing. That's what is important to them though, they just don't get it. Maybe you just don't get it until you live with it. I am so sorry.
  6. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Sending support your way. Perhaps you could add a "measurable" school behavior to the chart. That way they won't think you are anti-academic. difficult child is to have 0 poor behavior grades (or write ups) whatever they use at the school. Being a Warrior Mom is exhausting but you're doing great. DDD
  7. shellyd67

    shellyd67 Active Member

    Seriously ! Geeze .... Sish had some great ideas DF. Maybe the caseworker will get the point (or maybe not sounds more like it) Sorry darling ...
  8. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    OK - I think I see what you are saying:

    difficult child will not put her hands on others more than 0 times per day
    difficult child will not make threats more than 0 times per day
    difficult child will not take anyone's things more than 0 times per day
    difficult child will not destroy any property more than 0 times per day
    difficult child will not call anyone a name more than 1 time per day
    difficult child will not use racial slurs more than 1 time per day
    difficult child will not criticize the appearance of others more than 1 time per day

    OK -I can do this!

    Thanks for the ideas and the support! I truly appreciate it!!
  9. I'm with the others who say, put some "measurable" goals but with the #1 goal being ZERO violence towards anyone or anything!
    We have been round and round with "behavior specialists" and it never fails they act like the chart thing will work wonders with a difficult child. been there done that too many times to say. It does NOT work, at least not with my difficult child. My easy child 3 does ok with them but her behaviors are nothing compared to my difficult child's.

    But at least make an effort, shows you are trying it their way, and if they aren't with difficult child for more than a few hours a week, they have no idea what "real life" with a difficult child is.

    Hugs of encouragement! Vickie
  10. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    Just a hint - in my experience, professionals like "positive" goals - rather than saying "difficult child will not", say "difficult child will". I've had folks tell me "thank you will not kill his mother" is not a goal that is phrased in positive language - "thank you will let his mother live" is somehow far more appropriate. ;)
  11. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    difficult child will not put her hands on others more than 0 times per day: difficult child will keep her hands to herself at all times during the day
    difficult child will not make threats more than 0 times per day: difficult child will make positive promises consistently throughout the day
    difficult child will not take anyone's things more than 0 times per day: difficult child will use her own things at all times during the day
    difficult child will not destroy any property more than 0 times per day: difficult child will treat all property with care and respect at all times during the day
    difficult child will not call anyone a name more than 1 time per day: difficult child will use appropriate endearments when speaking to/about others at all times during the day
    difficult child will not use racial slurs more than 1 time per day: See above
    difficult child will not criticize the appearance of others more than 1 time per day: difficult child will say positive things about the appearance of others at all times during the day

    Ugh, I'm making myself ill... LOL
  12. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    O brother! Wouldn't want to harm their precious self-esteem!

    Does this mean we need to re-write the Ten Commandments?

    1) Thou SHALL have one G-d only
    2) Thou SHALL leave graven images alone
    3) Thou SHALL say nice things when speaking of G-d
    4) Thou SHALL keep the Sabbath
    5) Thou SHALL honor thy parents
    6) Thou SHALL let others live
    7) Thou SHALL have only proper relationships
    8) Thou SHALL let others keep their property
    9) Thou SHALL say only the Truth about thy neighbors
    10) Thou SHALL want only what is already yours.
  13. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    DF - UGH! How annoying is this?!?!? Like you, we, anyone asking for HELP! has not tried a friggin' behavior chart before. Give me a break! I had to do it, too. I got, "how will I know it will not work, if you do not try it." I AM TELLING YOU IT WILL NOT WORK BECAUSE I have TRIED IT!!!! Argh!!!

    Still makes my blood boil - after 8 years!!
  14. Star*

    Star* call 911

    How about -

    difficult child will show proper anger management control consistantly throughout her day at home and in school

    This goal will be attained by attending anger management classes, and therapy TB attended by difficult child and paid for by the state, for a period of six months with reviews by a qualified therapist every month. Upon graduation of anger management class and obtaining goals of said class with certificate, difficult child will then enter into a community based volunteer program where she will give 5 hours a week; every week for one year of her time towards learning skills that will get her prepared for a job. Also during this time other goals will be determined to include:

    Work/Life skills - as they pertain to obtaining/keeping a part-time job earning money
    Opening a bank account -
    Learning how to balance a check book
    Academic probation -C's or better - as it pertains to grades in school which can earn her rewards towards other external goals ie; bank money for drivers education, 1 years car insurance, car repairs, and a 1/2 monies of a vehicle. All to be earned while working.
    *all monies for above mentioned items will be banked and not spent before drivers education is even mentioned. If goals are met? Parents provide other 1/2 of monies toward a vehicle, and offer to put daughter on their insurance.

    And above all -
    Our goal of absolute safety in our home must be maintained at all times. Should at any time any family member be harmed by difficult child? Our agreement will be void - This is NOT negotiable.

    Of course - you can replace the car thing with - cool clothes from Holister, or Wet seal or Awesome stereo - whatever HER hearts desire is - It could be a trip to Disney for all i know. But the thing is - it has to be a series of goals that are something SHE wants badly. A new room in the basement ? Something she really wants that she would just jump through hoops for - AND then yes - put the safety NO TOUCH rule as an ABSOLUTE in -

    Your caseworker is inexperienced and not very creative. Call Steve Shoemaker....Have a chat. Explain the problem you are having and revisit this. HE is AWESOME.
  15. Star*

    Star* call 911

    I say this - this way because -------

    IF you start with

    difficult child WILL DO THIS - NOT this
    difficult child WILL DO THIS - NOT this -

    About right here? Shes' going to LOOSE interest - and not read any further and you loose HER too.

    If you make it -

    difficult child WILL GET THIS....when she completes THIS.........and we will XXX this .....

    This statement says to a difficult child mind -

    Okay Here's your PRIZE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Here's how you get it.......oh and MOM and DAD....have to do work too.....
    PRIZEEEEEEEEE........(work 2nd)..........someone else has to do work too...I'm not alone.


    PRIZEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE 1st......I see that as a difficult child now you have my attention......OH and yeah - I see - work OKAY...and hahah...Other will help. Huh.....I'm not doing this myself.

    But the PRIZE comes first.......

    It is the EXACT same as

    difficult child WILL NOT TALK IN CLASS, BECAUSE THIS IS THE RULE. But if you put difficult child WILL NOT - first? like 20 times ? I promise you by the third rule? You loose them. They're bored and it's must MORE rules.....more blah blah, blah....even if you follow it up with THE PRIZE...they don't care - because they get so used to NOT making it, not being able to follow the rules - I mean they aren't dumb - they know they break rules all the time. They know they get into trouble a lot. So why bother?

    THURSDAY if difficult child has not talked in class there will be candy. (by this point? they don't care - they know they won't get the candy and they don't care who is giving it out, who had to buy it....they just know they won't be getting any)

    Try putting the prize FIRST...see if it helps any. Them in the middle.....and YOU as part of the solution and help!

    Best of luck!
  16. Star*

    Star* call 911

    So it would realistically look like this -

    A second hand car can be difficult child's, for completing the terms of our family agreement, One half of car to be paid by Mom and Dad

    Here are her goals: (discussed and agreed upon with difficult child - (date)

    Goal: difficult child GETS HER CAR
    Idea 1:
    Certificate of Anger Management Class, Completed by difficult child with qualified therapist, Supervised weekly with State case manager. (quality time)
    - this ensures safety in our home under this rule: No one will place a hand on anyone else at any time. We will all seek alternative methods to solve our anger issues, and resolve our problems together discussing them as a family. Possibly keeping an anger journal by difficult child that is to remain absolutely and totally private to only be discussed between difficult child and therapist unless difficult child decides to share with family. PERIOD!

    GOAL: difficult child GETS INSURANCE FOR HER CAR

    Idea #2.

    difficult child at 16 years old needs a bank account to save for the things she wants/needs. She will need job skills, and to help her with that we feel she should have some work experience. difficult child will volunteer 5 hours a week at any volunteer shelter OF HER CHOOSING. (hand list) that will pertain to any field she feels she would like a career in, supported by Voc. rehab, Good will or some other job training skill place. (if she wants to be a vet tech - then take her to an animal shelter) if she wants to be a secretary - find her a place where she can put her mad skills to work. etc. But something where she is GETTING INTO THE OUTSIDE WORLD and getting a taste of working. Volunteering so that she can build a resume. Then take that to jobs so she gets an idea of what she may or may not like, and not look like she's quit 10 jobs.

    Get the idea here ?

    She's a brilliant kid - Maybe she likes kids - TAKE HER TO THE LIBRARY - let her volunteer to read on weekends and put books up. Walk dogs at the shelter - whatever it is.....get her working towards .....HER......goals. If she's busy she won't be so bored. If she's not bored.....she is less likely to be so underfoot and aggitated.

    it's just a guess, but I have faith in my niece. She's beautiful, and brilliant.....and I would guess she wants a car....????

    With the extra she can buy her Auntie Star - a donkey.
  17. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Star has a point... But.

    Something they told us in parenting class (yes, I took a parenting class, and yes, it was court ordered, though I was not ordered into it)...

    If you tell a child: Don't spill your milk, what they hear is: yada yada yada spill your milk. (Not.)
    If you tell a child: Let's move your cup away from the edge of the table, what they hear is: yada yada yada edge of the table. (Better...)
    If you tell a child: I have dessert if everyone keeps their cups upright, what they hear is: yada yada yada dessert yada yada cups upright. (Yes!)

    We tried this with Jett... And it worked....
    We tried this with Onyxx... And it worked...
    Except... I don't make dessert much. So we got creative with rewards. Excused from the table early, TV time, board game...

    And then they got older. Jett doesn't spill stuff much - too busy putting the cup toward the center of the table. Onyxx doesn't care.

    Our house rules are set up toward the positive, with consequences and rewards. Apparently, though, money is NOT much of a motivator in my house.

    "...Thou shalt refrain from..." ???
  18. Star*

    Star* call 911

    Thats just it - Daisy has to find out WHAT it is that difficult child wants (I used car for an example) She may want Disney or a stereo or whatever it is.

    Each family has to model it's own Prize, HOW, Help....but we learned REWARD first - then consequence with difficult child always worked better. Always the postive before any negative whether it's in rules, or communication. difficult child wasn't motivated by ANYTHING. But in talking to him? Postive first then rule. Wasn't like he was bound to listen a whole lot anyway - this WAS Dude we're talking about, but at least when we starting talking postive first then rule? He at least listened. It was a start.
  19. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    So.....did you have to send it today and what did you come up with? I think it is awesome that so many knew that the positive sentence was the correct way to go. I still, lol, hope you threw in something about school to appease the idiots. DDD
  20. rlsnights

    rlsnights New Member


    thank you will LET his mother live???

    I see some really good suggestions have been offered about writing longer term goals with intermediate steps. But this is not what I think someone means when they say "Behavior Chart". They mean something with simple, easily measured goals. And my impression from Daisy is that moment to moment safety is in doubt in her home. So longer term goals are nice but won't help if difficult child seriously injures someone first.

    Writing that kind of goal is hard to do in purely positive language but can be done.

    However, I think your deadline is past and the "let mom live" line just is too good to pass up.

    I hope you will forgive my irreverance but really, we should turn this into a game of sorts don't you think? Who can come up with the "best" positive goal for difficult child in the spirit of Let Mom Live?

    When frustrated, difficult child will only break the dishes purchased for this purpose after asking her mother for permission in 9 out of 10 trials.

    Mmm no.

    When upset, difficult child will go to her room when asked and stay there for 2 minutes in 9 out of 10 trials.


    When upset, difficult child will go to her room when asked without touching, hitting, pinching, biting, kicking or otherwise assaulting a family member in 9 out of 10 trials.

    Getting in the groove here.

    When enraged, difficult child will leave the house without assaulting a family member in 9 out of 10 trials.

    When enraged, difficult child will leave the house without assaulting a family member and voluntarily return home the same day in 9 out of 10 trials.


    How's that for a start? she asked the case manager, smiling brightly.:angel:
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2011