Anyone that had child diagnoised as early as 5?

[Tania_port]

I need some help finding out what to do with my 5 year old. When i turn my back on him he does something nuts like chop on my cat with scissors. he has been living with me for almost 2 years now and right when he came from his dads i had problems with him beating my Dog with a big stick. I took him to get tested and they said post tramatic stress disorder, ADHD possibly, Speech delay. Well the problem here is that he lies non stop and is getting more violent. I cannot tell if hes lying or telling the truth anymore. I have a 3 year old and he hurts her as soon as i turn my back on him. I cannot trust him at all with her. His impulse control doesnt exist at all. If he sees something hes gotta touch it. I have had him in behavior therapy and also hes been seen by a psycologist for a little while. Its to expensive and they wanted him to come every week. My question is who will diagnois this without him having to be seen a lot of times? I dont know what to do anymore with him. He throws fits constantly. If you say no he throws fits. I have to keep him entertained or he will cause problems. I seen yesterday he was playing with my 3 year old and he picked up a big peace of wood and pointed it to her stomach like he was going to stick her with it. If i wouldnt of been looking he would of done it. He is so easily irrated. If my 3 year old sings a song for a few mins then he gets mad and yells at her. Tonight he hit her with a coat hanger after i already told him not to hit. I do not think his mean ways are ADHD. I have told so many people about the problems with andrew and no one seems to want to help me with him. I have told so many doctors even his pediatrician. How do i get him help to control his anger? Every day seems to be getting harder. My son cant wait for my husband to go to work because i am not as hard as my husband. My huband doesnt know what to do either. I am worried hes going to hurt my 3 year old. I have been struggling with him since he was 3 years old. Unless the punishment is so bad he will continue doing what he wants. What if the punishments that i have end up not working at all then what do i do? My huband has been off of work for a week now on vacation and im scared for him to leave me with my son. Not really because im scared of him its because he is awful if my husband isnt around. He wont listen to me. I have even had him laugh at me when i have given him a spanking. I dont spank him anymore because of it. I take his favoriate toys away from him. Will this disorder go away or does it only get worse? Does my son need to be in a special school? Im confused because hes so young to have this disorder. Hes got speech delay and ADHD. Plus the behavior issues. Im just worried about him. I love him but i dont know how to help him. I want him to be happy but he is never happy. He is so Negative and he loves violence. He has been evaluated by arkansas children hospital for 2 hours because of the animal cruelty and his speech delay. Does anyone know what i should do to help him? He comes from a dad thats a sociopath. Hes a con man. I dont know if this has effected my kids genetics or not. I have told all the doctors of all the heck this guy put us all threw so seems like they would know my sons got a lot of problems. My son isnt in school because they told me we make to much money for him to go into prek. We are in bankrupsy,we dont have the money for school,We have 4 kids and the other kids seem to be normal and i was with his dad for 7 years and all of the kids are his kids. I dont even have the money for the therapist. This year he will be in school. Guys if you have any suggestions for us please let us know. We love this boy with all of our heart and would hate to see him grow up to do some terrible things to people. Can these kids be fixed? I sure hope so. Its hard when your kids seems to hate life and they are so young. And the problem is he thinks hes the one being wrongly done and hes the one causing the chaos for everyone even himself. Its an awful disorder. I wish doctors would help more when someone comes to them with complaints like this. My next step is probley going to be the SSI office and tell them that i have a violent child. We are at our witts ends with his behavior.

 

[JJJ]

Hi Tania,

Welcome. My children were diagnosis between ages 2-5.

Your son has some very serious red flags. in my humble opinion he needs intensive therapy, now. With the severity of his problems, he should qualify for an Early Childhood Class through your school district. Your county mental health services should also be a good resource.

Even though your son is your biological child, since he did live with his dad in a less than ideal environment, you may benefit from reading some books written for adoptive parents: "Adopting the Hurt Child" and "Parenting the Hurt Child". Other key books are "The Explosive Child" and "The Defiant Child".

What State do you live in? We have members here from most states are someone from your state may be able to steer you in the best direction for services.

 

[helpangel]

Wow your post brought back a lot of old memories, JJJ gave some really good advise; the book the Explosive child by R Greene is a good one and as she mentioned he should qualify for public school Special Education because I can't imagine him going into a regular kindergarten class like this. Our district they call it Early intervention up until 3yo then PPI (pre-primary impaired) for 3-6yo.

I could be wrong but this sounds to me more on the Autism spectrum then adHd. If that's the case diet & therapies will be a big piece to the solving the puzzle. What helped much with Angel was I would jot notes on calendars (started them when she was 3yo) different colors of ink
red - anger/hostility
blue- sad
purple- sexual
orange- stealing/lying
green - possible food related
She had a bad blowout that went on for 14 hours when she was 6yo and she was admitted to a psychiatric hospital for 15 days - those calendars helped the psychiatrist a lot in coming up with a treatment plan for her - the child who came out of the hospital I didn't know because she looked like my kid but this kid was a little sweetheart. She did very well on the medications they came up with for 2 years.

You mentioned something about going to SSI (why not?) while down there apply for SSI because the truth is all this testing and therapy does cost a lot and if child qualifies for SSI medicaid comes with it - will pay for a thorough neuro psychiatric evaluation, developmental pediatrician, therapy, nutrician services, Occupational Therapist (OT), and even a psychiatric hospital (if it's needed) hopefully you can get some answers before that happens but its good to leave as many options open as you can.

Don't lose hope what you're going thru is what I think back to as the dark days before diagnoses, and they were dark days. Dealing with the unknown was more terrifying then anything I've ever gone thru with my kids and once I had some answers it helped me to know which direction to look for treatment.

 

[BusynMember]

Hi and welcome.

It's common to get a diagnosis. as early as five, but it's often not the real diagnosis and it gets changed as the child gets older. ADHD is the most common young diagnosis., but often it doesn't stick.

Was your child abused in his bio. dads house? He is doing some scary stuff with the animals and in my opinion he's very violent for a three year old and that's a big red flag. I'd call it way over the top for ADHD--I think he needs serious SERIOUS help. While his speech delay could mean he is on the autism spectrum, which can cause raging, his hurting of animals makes me think that, even if he's on the spectrum, so much more is going on. Can you give us a better background so we can help you more? To answer if a sociopath is more likely to have a sociopathic child, the a nswer, I've been told, is absolutely yes. Often adopted kids (I've adopted four) who had sociopathic parents can live in a wonderful home and still become a sociopath. Doesn't always happen, but it's more likely. Plus being moved around is always a bad thing for a child.

You may want to do a signature like I did below. Welcome again.

 

[Nomad]

I'm so sorry that you, your son and your family are hurting due to behaviors of this child. Often times, physicians will simply give the diagnosis of ADHD when they are unsure of what is going on. Sometimes that is the case, but usually it is not as simple as that. My child was diagnosis'd ADHD around the age of 4 or 5 (her diagnosis was later modified).

Has your child seen a child psychiatrist? If the problems are severe (and they sound like they might be), it might be time to see a specialist.

There is a book called 123 Magic that I really loved when my special needs child was young. It gave me techniques that helped get her to calm down a bit...we were able to use them to help her with self control. If you can not afford the book....PLEASE see if you can order it at the library. It is well worth the effort.

The doctor gave us some medication...also very helpful.

It's not easy, but try not to let this child damage your relationship with your spouse or other children. Keep some space/distance between this child and others if necessary. Spend some quality time with each child.

You might find it necessary to use the services of a family counselor.
Do you belong to a church? Sometimes they have access to counselors that work on a sliding scale.

When you say you don't have the money for school...what do you mean by this? When your children are ready for Kinder or first grade...they can attend for free in public school.

Do you have any relatives that might help you with a few school supplies?
What about babysitting? You can ask for help with one or two of the children once in a while to help keep things a little calmer.

Remember, although it is not easy, you can make a personal choice to be strong and keep a positive attitude. Be creative with reference to solutions. Be a role model for this type of behavior. It seems like your child has much baggage...much going against him. If he has a good role model to emulate...this will help at least a little (maybe more).

Do what you can to strengthen yourself. Keep in contact with nice friends and fill your mind with good thoughts. Speak with doctors about your son's condition and use the internet or library to do research.

You said:
"And the problem is he thinks hes the one being wrongly done and hes the one causing the chaos for everyone even himself."

I do wonder if this child has a combination of entitlement concerns, low self esteem, as well as some sort of neurobiological condition. This is a nasty combination we have had with our child. She is diagnosis'd with bipolar illness. It's a long shot...but you might want to read up on this diagnosis. There is a famous book called "The Bipolar Child," by Dr. Papolus. The "Explosive Child," is another good one. (See post by JJJ). All these books are helpful to moms in your situation.

Consider letting your child know that he is loved, but at the same time set up BOUNDARIES. Google the words "logical consequences."

One thing that I found helped with my child...giving her choices...but using boundaries. For example...
What would you like to wear today...Choice A or Choice B?
I would hold up two outfits and she would pick.
(Otherwise...she would wear something inappropriate).

If there is real benefit of going to SSI, you might go ahead with that. Will that give you any money to get some help with him? Can you use the money to see doctors, buy books, school supplies, etc.???

With good parenting, therapy, possibly medication, patience and time...things can get better. Remember...this is not your fault. Since your child is young, you are responsible to educate yourself as best as you can to help your child. You are starting that process and will do a good job. Ultimately, your child will have to make a personal choice to make improvements.

Please take good care of yourself and as soon as you are able, please consider a trip to the library to pick up or oder the books mentioned! You'll be glad you did.

Wishing you well.

 

[Tania_port]

Wow your post brought back a lot of old memories, JJJ gave some really good advise; the book the Explosive child by R Greene is a good one and as she mentioned he should qualify for public school Special Education because I can't imagine him going into a regular kindergarten class like this. Our district they call it Early intervention up until 3yo then PPI (pre-primary impaired) for 3-6yo.

I could be wrong but this sounds to me more on the Autism spectrum then adHd. If that's the case diet & therapies will be a big piece to the solving the puzzle. What helped much with Angel was I would jot notes on calendars (started them when she was 3yo) different colors of ink
red - anger/hostility
blue- sad
purple- sexual
orange- stealing/lying
green - possible food related
She had a bad blowout that went on for 14 hours when she was 6yo and she was admitted to a psychiatric hospital for 15 days - those calendars helped the psychiatrist a lot in coming up with a treatment plan for her - the child who came out of the hospital I didn't know because she looked like my kid but this kid was a little sweetheart. She did very well on the medications they came up with for 2 years.

You mentioned something about going to SSI (why not?) while down there apply for SSI because the truth is all this testing and therapy does cost a lot and if child qualifies for SSI medicaid comes with it - will pay for a thorough neuro psychiatric evaluation, developmental pediatrician, therapy, nutrician services, Occupational Therapist (OT), and even a psychiatric hospital (if it's needed) hopefully you can get some answers before that happens but its good to leave as many options open as you can.

Don't lose hope what you're going thru is what I think back to as the dark days before diagnoses, and they were dark days. Dealing with the unknown was more terrifying then anything I've ever gone thru with my kids and once I had some answers it helped me to know which direction to look for treatment.

I thought with the testing he has had that i was the one with the problem. i thought with the testing they would of diognoised him with what ever hes got. Most of the time with andrew though he doesnt usually start acting up unless you tell him no or you have been around himn for a few hours. They tested him for 2 hours and my insurance was suppose to pay for 4 hours but they decided against it. Im unsure what social security office can do for me. I remember my mom saying something about them doing a psy exam on her and the lady accross the street also said i should take him down to the social security office. The reason why i said i cant afford school is because he was suppose to go PreK this year and i took him up to enroll him and they had a pay scale to look at to see if we qualify. We make to much money they said but we dont have any money extra to put him in a preK. I live in Northwest arkansas. He rules are lives.

 

[Tania_port]

I am keeping the best attitude as possible. I have talked with doctors and the school district. I had an interview with the school system about the problems we have with andrew and i am suppose to be getting him tested when they send me some things in the mail. I told them that i do know what to do with andrew. They know all these things about him they dont know about the recient thing with my cat though. Ive been waiting for the papers to come in the mail to take him up to the school for testing. Its hard to keep to positive when he acts up all day long. Speacially when you love your kids so much. It kills me to see him not caring one bit how he effects us all. I can afford school supplies. Thats not the problem. I cannot afford to take my kid to therapy every week. We woke up this morning to him messing with the cats again. Even though he knows hes not allowed to touch them. All of his toys are in the closet and he hasnt rode his bike in 2 weeks now due to what he did to my cat. He constantly does exactly what he want to do unless punishment is really terrible. Im not as strict as a man so i get treated really bad when my husband leaves me with him. And im so sucked into his lying. I feel sorry for him all the time. I dont know why i always feel sorry for him i know he lies and sometimes i jump in when my husband is diciplining him. I try so hard not to do it but sometimes i do. I Talked with one doctor online that wrote the book Just like his Father and she told me love is the most important thing. She said i have to love him with all i have and show him but how can i if he wont stop going against all the rules? I told her im not going to reward the bad behavior. And i have also had a therapist tell me that when he throws a fit just grab him and hug him. Why is it that they want me to reward the bad behavior. He already thinks im to soft on him thats why he cant wait for my husband to go back to work. He knows i love him a lot and thats why i think he ignores my rules. He has accused his dad of some sexual things and i had to report it to the cops. They did an investigation and found it unfounded. Im thinking i need someone that isnt going to feel to sorry for andrew. He munipulates me all the time to get his way. I always have such pity for him. And the reason why hes introuble is because of stuff he does. He totally disreguards our rules unless the punishment is took tough on him. They said that hes got a learning disorder also but the problem is i see him every day. They dont see how smart this kid is. He applies all his smarts to all he wants to. If hes uninterested in what you want him to learn of course he isnt going to be smart in the subject. I think hes very smart when he will comply. To comply with your subject he has to be pumped up about it. You have to get him really excited to learn what you want him to learn. Otherwise he could careless. He just learned to do buttons on shirts and thats because he never cared before. He seen my daughter getting attention and he decided he wanted it also. When he sees someone else other then him getting attention he has to make my life very hard. He cant stand the focus being off of him. I have 3 daughters and non of them like him, I feel terrible about this but the thing is hes so mean that no body wants to play with him. I better stop tying now i could go on all day with this kind of stuff. Im getting some books to help us out with this disorder. Im sure there is helpful tips to effective parenting these kids. Im going to try to get him on medicine for his ADHD also that may mellow him out. Good luck guys and i thank you guys for listening im sure i sound like a baby. I sure do to myself. Thanks again. Good luck everyone.

 

[jbrain]

Hi Tania,
I just wanted to say that whenever I felt sorry for my dtr because of her problems she took advantage of me. You will have to learn not to parent from a guilty or pitying place because it only makes things worse and you are not doing your child any favors. I'm not sure what your husband does that keeps your son in line but it is clear he needs firm boundaries. Even if you are afraid to be alone with him you are going to have to act as if you are not.

I'm so sorry for what you are going through and also what your pets and dtrs are going through. My youngest dtr was greatly affected by her older sister and has been in therapy trying to deal with it for several years.

Hugs,
Jane

I'm sorry things are so bad for you--sounds exhausting

 

[TerryJ2]

Hi Tania,
nice to meet you.
You have your hands full! He definitely has more than one thing going on.

One thing you might try ... during a calm moment, call the dog (assuming it's a big dog and obedient) and have him sit. Call your difficult child and the min your difficult child hits the dog, grab your difficult child's hand and say, "Pet the dog!" in a firm voice, then unwrap his fingers so he's not making a fist and it's a flat palm, and force his hand back onto the dog like he's petting it, and say, "Good pet the dog."
Do it over and over and over. Do again in a cpl hrs. And the next day.
Clearly, he wants contact with-animals, people and things but something in his mind is preventing him from "getting it."
He's not going to understand empathy at this age. But he will understand repetition.
Take it one step at a time.
Work on one behavior at a time.
You are trhing to bite off too much. It is overwhelming.
(I know the feeling!)
I'm glad you've gotten some testing done, and I agree with-MWM that the diagnosis will change over time. Just work with-what you've got.
I am sorry that you slipped through the cracks with-educ. financing. Isn't that always the way?

You will probably not be able to get ANY work done when you are at home with-your difficult child. That was one of my biggest mistakes. My son would break things or run out of the house the 1 sec I wasn't looking (or flood the back porch). I coudn't even go to the bathroom. No kidding.

It does get better but you need intensive intervention.

I am glad you quit spanking him. I'm wondering if he's like my son, in that he likes rough play and hard, hard squeezing? My son and I used to have squeezing contests. He always won--even when he was 3. I'd break out in a sweat. Whew!
He also liked it when I sat on him. (Make sure it's in his lap or butt, not on his stomach, if you do that.)

 

[helpangel]

Getting an accurate diagnoses on a kid is difficult, would be so much easier if they were like cars - take them to shop mechanic hooks up to computer and gets a printout letting them know wiring is shot, transmission is going, needs an air filter & oil change. It doesn't work like that with humans - this is why I suggested the calendars - it gives the reader a condensed, organized glimpse into what's going on at home. My kids rarely will exhibit the behaviors I'm reporting in front of the person I'm reporting them to.

The school I was referring to goes into FAPE (free and appropriate public education) that every child is entitled to under federal law. Many parents get into battles with school districts when the district doesn't have something that would make their program appropriate for a kid and district doesn't want to spend the money to offer it.

If your district disqualified your child from the preK claiming you're over income I think it was a program like what is called "Head Start" here (federally funded) and it is a preschool that is offered to low income families who can't afford preschool (but disabled children qualify regardless of parents income)

I'm not sure if federal or state law but in my state under FAPE disabled children are eligible for public education from birth - age 26 or graduation whichever comes first. birth -3yo Early intervention; 3-6yo either POHI (physical or health impaired) or PPI (pre primary impaired) after 6yo this would fall under special education services offered in the public school setting. With Angel public school didn't have a program that they felt could handle her so they pay for her to attend a day treatment school outside our district, including transportation to that program.

Your sons age you should look at PPI (POHI is kids with walkers & feeding tubes, etc.) both of my girls got PPI 12yo graduated from early intervention when she turned 3yo, Angel however got in by lack of social skills & wetting her pants when 5yo because she wasn't quite emotionally ready for kindergarten. The PPI placement was also like a "heads up" to the district this child was going to need some services in Special Education when doing the K-12 grade part of her public education. The PPI teacher was the one who loaned me books based on what she was seeing with Angel - Out of Sync child where I learned about Sensory Integration Disfunction, Explosive Child where it reinforsed what teacher was saying about picking my battles etc.

From what you posted I think Explosive Child is still the first one you should read, and in the beginning everything is going to be basket A or C - A being safety issues that you will be willing to go to the wall enforsing & C being things you choose to ignore at this time because you're busy dealing with more important issues. With time you can start moving things from the C basket to the B basket but for now set the B basket aside and focus on safety issues.

Your second sentence of 1st post said something about turn your back and he's chopping at cat with scissors - your child should NOT have access to scissors. Our house there is a padlock on cleaning supply cabinet, a suitcase in my room with combination lock for medications, and a toolbox with combination padlock on the kitchen counter for the sharps.

I'm sorry if I come across as a bossy little know it all , because honestly I'm not I try to learn a little more every day and I'm always looking for more info on whatever issues I'm dealing. So much of my effort when my girls were younger was just keeping Ms12 alive with a older sibling like Angel around.

As with anything you read on the internet please take what you need and ignore the rest. I hope something I wrote here can help you find a little peace. You're already ahead of where I was with this because you have a husband, being single I'm dealing with this stuff on my own.

 

[BusynMember]

neuropsychologist evaluations are the best ones. They don't rely on kids acting up and they run actual tests for everything and anything. That's what I'd do. This child has some very serious issues that can turn into worse things. I'd want the whole she-bang diagnostic bit, not just a therapist waiting to see a kid act out. Therapists, even psychologists, are often terrible diagnosticians. Good luck, whatever you decide. I seriously doubt if this is just ADHD. And in my opinion it's not going to respond just to normal behavioral therapy methods--hurting animals and people can be very serious and even the great "The Explosive Child" book in my opinion is not enough. This child will need a total evaluation and intensive treatment, depending on what is found in the evaluation. I sadly had an eleven year old foster child who was a total sociopath only we didn't know it for a while. He ended up killing two of our dogs and sexually abusing the younger kids. We learned from CPS and social workers and psychiatrists that there are three BIG red flags for sociopathic behavior in kids: harming animals, setting fires (obsession with fire) and peeing and pooping in inappropriate places. You don't want it to get to that point. Please be proactive.

 

[Tania_port]

Well another crappy day as expected with andrew but guess what??Im so excited. I found a Mental Health facility pretty close to us. I read on there website and it looks like their evaluations are free. Gosh i so happy about this. He maybe able to get some help and maybe we can get some relief. Its call Vista Health. My neighbor mentioned it to me a few days ago. Cross your fingers for me guys cause this kid needs serious help. Im trying not to let him work me but its hard. Im his mom. I feel so sorry for him because he wont ever listen to what we say. Thank you guys for all the help. Im so glad i found this site. Atleast i know i have some people to talk to that deal with the same sort of problems. Andrew tried to hurt me today so i threw away one of his toys. His favoriate toys at that. He didnt even flinch though. It didnt both him at all. I told him to hold my hand and he squeezed as tight as he could. I asked him why he did it and he said it was an accident. Well ive gotta get off here. I took him to the sitter tonight so i could take the girls to the movies or something. You guys take care. I will let you guys know how the Vista Health ordeal goes.
Thanks again!

 

[Tania_port]

Well today was another crappy day. Today we was aggressive with my 6 year old she said that he grabbed her face but i got him alone and asked him what he did and to do it to me what he did to her. He grabbed my throat with both hands. Today i notice hes been very aggressive. I wrote his name on something and he snatched it out of my hand like he was mad. I asked him if he hates me and i think he said no.

 

[BusynMember]

Tania, this is a very disturbed kid with some scary behaviors and he is dangerous to your other child (and will probably be just as dangerous to other kids once he starts school if you don't get a handle on what is wrong with him). I know it's expensive, but I'd try to find a private neuropsychologist to pay out and have them test him. If you do have four hours of testing, I think you should find one who will do all four hours. My son was tested for ten hours and it was well worth it.
With all the issues your son has, in my opinion you won't get satisfactory answers from the schools. They aren't equpped to diagnose much. They can't tell you why this kid tries to cut the cat or choke you. It's certainly more than ADHD and may require medication and, yes, ongoing therapy, especially if Dad abused him. And I would highly suspect abuse. in my opinion you can't do this yourself just by using therapy methods that work for "normal" kids. You need a diagnostician who is very sharp (and unfortunately schools don't usually have them) and somebody who can see this child on an ongoing basis. There are county mental health clinics if you can't afford anything else, but I'd take the neuropsychologist evaluation to a private person. It's a one time thing.
It really WOULD help if you'd fill us in more on the reason he was diagnosed with PTSD. Did his father mentally, physically or sexually abuse him? What kind of issues does his biological father have? The more we know the more we can try to help.

 

[Tania_port]

Okay, I found the hospital close to us. Its called the Vista Health and they do outpatient care. They have a special program for kids with behavior problems. His dad took him for 9 months and hid them from me. I found them and took the 2 smallest kids away from him threw court. I could of took the other 2 also but i couldnt financally take care of them all 4. My oldest girls live with their dad and i get to see them on the weekends. Jason which is andrews father is a con-man. Sociopath or whatever you want to call it. I was with him 4 7 years. We have 4 kids together. He did nothing but con people when i was with him. He skipped from job to job scamming people. He would say that he could do a wonderful job for them and within a few months he would be fired. He has stolen money from banks and taken peoples identity. He was indicted by the federal Gov for the banks he ripped off in 2003 i think and ended up serving time in the prison boot camp in Georgia. He have 2 differnt credit scores and is a compulsive gambler. Anyways thats a little about this guy. When i got andrew back he was different. He complained about sexual assult by his father and i took him to an avocacy center and examined him plus the cops. I did the best i could but nothing could be proven, Andrew went to therapy when we first got him back because he was beating my dog with a stick and being mean to my cats. The lady said PTSD. plus mixed developemental disorder. I dont know what happened to him. Hes got speech problems also. I didnt relize that this man was a freak until about a few weeks ago. I knew he lied but didnt know he reallly had a name attached to him if you know what i mean. Andrews really got some problems and i only want him to get some good help. Im unsure what someone really did to him. I know what he told me and i tried to keep his dad away but the problem here is andrew lies non stop. He could have been lying. he lies more then anyone i have ever seen in my life.

 

[Star*]

Hi -

FIrst welcome to the family - second do NOT take offense at what I am going to post to you - just listen, take from it what you can - and do the best you can. What you don't know now is that what your son suffers from PTSD is a long, long process of remapping his brain and learning how to speak to him and treat him as a parent a little bit differently than your other children. WHat THEY will need therapy for is witnessing what their brother is doing and WHY it's not okay for them to mimic what he does - and that he really does have a problem. What YOU and husband will need therapy for is to learn HOW to detach, how to relate, redirect and support each other. Kids like ours often break up marriages which end in divorce. You're really going to need to know how to deal with him and the fall out of his PTSD will/can be severe at times, absurd most days and make you feel like an utter failure as a parent at any given moment. You can get looks in a grocery store, called into the school more times that you want to be called out. It will wear you down mentally, physically and if you KNOW from a trained professional WHAT you could possibly be expecting or WHAT you can do to work together as a team to help this child? You'll be better off than saying "We can't afford it -" pay now or pay later.

All mental health county offices will see your entire family on a sliding scale fee - if you are in bankruptcy - and have little to no money - the therapy is little to no charge. Find it - make an appointment. GO to it. THey have connections and people in the know. Your school? Not going to be very helpful - they are doing what they are doing to legally cover themselves should your son hurt someone or himself. They are NOT educated to deal (most schools) with our kids - and you are going to have the benefit of educating them about him, about his problems....and it's NOT just "oh he will grow out of this with love" situation. If it were that? It would have already happened - and it hasn't - so like I said - take out of this what you want - but I've been there, and tried it, and I'm glad I stuck with therapy even when it didn't seem like it was working - some days Dude just went and played checkers, some days he sat with a pillow over his head while the therapist did some biofeedback. Some days he left therapy and was WORSE than when he went in - depending on what they touched on in his memory. But if you don't go too? You won't know how to handle that. It will just seem like you are throwing your money out the window and wasting your time. What you do when you go despite not wanting to go is establish a pattern - a place/a safe place for your child to vent. A place that will teach him how to cope with his anger, how to learn that it's okay to be angry - but HOW to appropriately deal with the anger and not stab the cat or hurt his siblings.

If you don't get your kid into therapy LONG TERM now - and find a way to get the siblings in as well - and yourself and possibly your hubby? You're going to pay a lot more later and throughout life than you're worried about paying now. These kids LIVE to divide and conquer - they lie, they steal they cheat, they're mean and they don't want to be but at 5? Telling him "Don't do that - it's mean" is like saying "Blah blah blah blah ......balh balh." it makes about as much sense -

There are techniques you can learn to get him to talk, open up about his feelings, talk about what is bothering him - but it's going to be up to him to decide if he's going to participate and help himself. Dude is now 18 - I've had a life of him being like your son and worse from age 4 - about 17 1/2. IT's just been in the last few months that we've seen progress - but it's like a boomerang effect - and it seems that ALL the stuff he learned/heard/stored for the last 12 years is finally being used. LIke all that help laid dormant and now he's drawing on it to try to improve himself......of course he thinks that MOST of what is going on is his doing - and I don't care - partly because he's right. No matter HOW many coping skills we put in his head - unless he knew them, and used them - they'd just be wasted. But I'm glad I know that we did do therapy for 12 years - because now he's going on his own - a pattern/habbit was established for him to have an outlet for blowing off steam and getting good answers to solving things that bug him.

This is not an easy life. These are not children for the faint of heart. Even getting a diagnosis however close to accurate as possible? Isn't a cure - there isn't a cure other than time, retraining their brains and becoming the best unified parents you can be - and along the way helping your other kids to understand what is going on - b ecause right now? They're small and they'll forgive - in a few years - they won't forgive and your sons behavior can cause them an entirely NEW set of problems - acting out as well, or becoming introverted, feeling abused, or being uptight and having their own PTSD symptoms from their brother.

I would not tell you what I know if I hadn't lived it. I'm sorry that it's happening to you, your son and your family - but if I told you to just batton down the hatches and hang on - I'd be doing you a disservice as a board member. I wish someone had told me early on that this takes a LIFETIME to help - no quick fixes. And in therapy you figure you get 1 hour a week - to fix something that has taken your sons entire life of 5 years to fix. So it's slow going, and occasionally there is out of home placements, or psychiatric. hospital placements to get their medications correct, and that is harder than ANYONE realizes. But it's better that they go to these places NOW while their young than you putting money in their commisary in prison when they are older because you just figured it would go away with patience or more stern parenting.....or love.....or whatever else we all thought would fix them. Self included.

And - of course, come to the board, and get it out of your system and get ideas from others who have been where you are - and take what you can from it and leave the rest.

Welcome - you have a lot of work ahead of you, but you have tons of support here.

Hugs
Star

 

[Tania_port]

OMG! Im scard now. I want him to be happy more then anything. I was recommended to a new behavior therapist today. Im going in to talk to him tomorrow. Im desperate for him to get help. He didnt care to tell the lady today that he knew that choking his sister could hurt her. He doesnt care about anything. My husband just about threw this relationship away because of my son. Now for some reason i am awake. I maked excuses before that hes just a kid. I agree with all you have said. Im going to try to help. I only hope that i dont have to give him up. Today the lady at this health place told me there is a place not to far away that does in patient treatment but its for 6 months. I dont want my 5 year old gone that long. I hope to get him on some medications to maybe help with the ADHD and his aggression,impulse control. Did you ever have to have your child commited? Is my son going to do really awful things? Hes only 5 and hes been acting up since he was 3 and its getting worse. Is this from abuse? I dont know why hes acting like this. Was your son abused by someone? All i want is my kid to be atleast a little bit happy. Hes my only son. He makes such awful choices and i pray he doesnt do it when hes older. Im thinking about him not going to Prison. My new husband keeps reminding me andrew needs help so he wont go to prison. Im going to get this help anyway i have to. Im going to go to this appointment tomorrow and after that im headed down to the SSI office to see if they can help with funding. I know that these therapist are very expensive. I thought andrew would grow out of this. And it started 2 years ago. I know that my love isnt going to change him. Look what its done for him. NOTHING! Im not in denial anymore. Im more modivated now but my family and you guys. My husband was only angry when he would say andrew is a brat..and whatever. I thought he was the 1 with the issues the last 2 years. Hes 52 so i thought he was a crab that didnt like kids to be honest. We have fought for 2 years over andrew and i always stood behind andrew. When andrew is in trouble he screams for momma to save him. so he wont get introuble and thats only because i let him do this for so long. I have always felt sorry for him. The last month or so i have been trying so hard not to feel sorry for him anymore. I thank you for your input and i am not offended. I wish someone would of told me a few years ago that my kid had serious problems. My husband did but i really though he was an angry ahole. Thanks again Star. Maybe you can tell me a little more to expect from these kind of kids. Why wont they listen? My son tends to blow women off more then men. He will listen a little to my husband. Not too many women at all.

 

[Star*]

OMG! Im scard now. Good that's the first sign that you realize there is something wrong. I want him to be happy more then anything. We all do, but happy can't happen until he's mentally well. I was recommended to a new behavior therapist today. Im going in to talk to him tomorrow. Im desperate for him to get help. He didnt care to tell the lady today that he knew that choking his sister could hurt her. He doesn't care, stop asking him to do things he can not do at this point. He doesnt care about anything. Why should he - he doesn't care about himself yet. He's damaged, angry and has NO ability to cope because no one has taught him how. My husband just about threw this relationship away because of my son. Don't blame him - I told you that everyone in the family has got to be committed to helping and learning and adjusting - these kids will split a marriage our divorce rate is high. Now for some reason i am awake. I maked excuses before that hes just a kid. He is a kid - just not a normal thinking one. I agree with all you have said. Im going to try to help. I only hope that i dont have to give him up. Being a parent stinks -but I'd rather give up my kid for 18 months than give him to the prison system some day for life. Today the lady at this health place told me there is a place not to far away that does in patient treatment but its for 6 months. I dont want my 5 year old gone that long. This isnt' about what YOU want this is about being the best parent you can be, sacrafice, and doing all you can to get this child well - it's a lifetime committment and if you start NOW - you "MAY" see change in him by the time he's 18. I hope to get him on some medications to maybe help with the ADHD and his aggression,impulse control. medications are not a cure all - and rarely work well alone without weekly therapy. If there was a pill out there that cured ADD or ODD or ADHD don't you think the rest of us would have bought it? Wishful thinking - but not realistic. Pills only HELP a child to hold themsleves together so that the therapy can sink in and eventually work. My son has been on 65 medications - he's 18 - nothing cured him. Did you ever have to have your child commited? Yes - 5 times to a psychiatric hosptial, 1 time to a group home 150 miles away for 10 months at age 10. 1 time to an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) 200 miles away for 18 months. 1 time to an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) for 12 months, then to a psychiatric hospital for 6 months, then back to the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) for 13 months until he had to have surgery, then home for 6 weeks, then to a group home we had shut down, and then to jail, then back home, then to foster care. And several in between. Is my son going to do really awful things? He could - at this point his ability to consciously reason is kinked. Hes only 5 and hes been acting up since he was 3 and its getting worse. Is this from abuse? Do you know he was abused? It could be that he was just born like this no one knows for certain. All i want is my kid to be atleast a little bit happy. Then you have to make some tough decisions and grow a rhino hide to help him. It's not easy. Hes my only son. He makes such awful choices and i pray he doesnt do it when hes older. Praying alone doesn't hurt, but we are given free will - that includes the ability to get him into therapy and do whatever it takes to remap his brain and change his way of thinking which currently is skewed for whatever reason. Im thinking about him not going to Prison. Well I started with myson at age 4 in therapy on medications and he still got sent to jail when he was a teenager, but fortunately for us he didn't like it much and natural consequences were allowed to happen. Had we not gotten him help and all of us gone to therapy (step dad included) I was told my son would be dead or in prison now. My new husband keeps reminding me andrew needs help so he wont go to prison. He is correct, I'm sure he loves him, and you - and only wants what is right for your son. Im going to get this help anyway i have to. Im going to go to this appointment tomorrow VERY GOOD! and after that im headed down to the SSI office to see if they can help with funding. Well, that can take a long time and there has to be documented proof and history - if you took him out of therapy they may not think (like you did) that he has any more problems. DOCUMENT EVERYTHING KEEP A NOTEBOOK WITH TIMES phone numbers, people you talk to - names first, last....and follow up. DOCUMENTATION IS KEY TO GETTING HELP. I know that these therapist are very expensive. NO THEY ARE NOT - call your county mental health agency - every county has one - and they are free or on sliding scale. I thought andrew would grow out of this. Not likely. And it started 2 years ago. I know that my love isnt going to change him. It will help, but you have to get yourself some therapy too to KNOW what is going to be the best thing for YOU to say when your son does XYZ....don't fly blind - get all the help you can. Look what its done for him. NOTHING! No, it's done something - just not what YOU wanted it to do.....again, this is NOT about you not loving him enough -we assume he has a disorder by what you tell us. If it's your parenting? Then it's time to get into parenting classes and change the stuff that is wrong so that later on in life you can BOTH enjoy each other. Im not in denial anymore. Im more modivated now but my family and you guys. My husband was only angry when he would say andrew is a brat..and whatever. Either pay now, or pay later - the child is not a brat. Kids without legs do not just get up and walk because you will it or love them or pray that they will or call them names that do more harm than good. You have got to learn how to parent this child in a manner that he can understand. NOT everyone learns math in school the same way - so why should parenting be any different? Its almost like you adopted an alien baby - and now you love it, but you have got to learn how to communicate with him and because he dind't come with a dictionary or manual - you have to get to people who DO know how to communicate to help you - it's about that simple. I thought he was the 1 with the issues the last 2 years. (said laughing - maybe is is) Hes 52 so i thought he was a crab that didnt like kids to be honest. If he's never had any kids or he's had "perfect" or easy child children -your son is going to be QUITE a handful and a test of wills. He just doesn't know how to communicate with this kid. (mmmmm see what I wrote above about communication - sadly Mom's like us don't know how to communicate with them either and need help too) My fiance is 52 also - but my son is now 18 - no one knew how to talk to each other. We have fought for 2 years over andrew and i always stood behind andrew. You are setting yourself up for a disaster -remember what I wrote to you about kids manipulating and divide and conquer - for 2 years your son has had YOU backing him up on all his behaviors and KNOWS it. Time to stop. It's not about WHO is right - it's about knowing what is right and doing it,. When andrew is in trouble he screams for momma to save him. so he wont get introuble and thats only because i let him do this for so long. I have always felt sorry for him. Tell yourself the more you feel sorry for him the LONGER it will take for him to heal. The last month or so i have been trying so hard not to feel sorry for him anymore. This isn't something you can do on your own, again - seek family therapy. I thank you for your input and i am not offended. I wish someone would of told me a few years ago that my kid had serious problems. My husband did but i really though he was an angry ahole. I think we all do/did - lol some days I still think that. hahah.....snort...Thanks again Star. welcome. Maybe you can tell me a little more to expect from these kind of kids. Why wont they listen? They don't know how to listen - their entire coping mechanisms have been removed due to (in our case) violence, and misparenting. It's going to take a lifetime to retrain him in what he absorbed when he was little - the sooner you start the better off you will all be. And step dad HAS to be on board with this or your son will use his stubborn disapproval as a crutch saying "My moms dad hates me." - oh brother....he's put up with him for 2 years. My son tends to blow women off more then men. He will listen a little to my husband. Not too many women at all. That could be because most men are black and white - about their logic and NOT emotional. I love that and hate that in them - but for a kid - he may have some fear of men -it's hard to tell what your x did to him when they were running. I'm sure it could not have been good. It wasn't with mine either - and in six short months my x turned my kid into a monster and praised him for it. But it started with our arguing, my acceptance and return after being abused - so I got myself therapy, and then joined the family therapy and then did more individual EMDR therapy (like hypnosis for PTSD patients)

Call your county mental health place and get set up - if you go to church ask the pastor for counseling - lots of churches offer it free these days. Luthern family counseling is a good place to go and you don't have to be Lutheran. Catholic family charities is another resource and you don't have to be catholic. United way is a plethora of resources.

Do keep going with the school - but do NOT depend on them for quality therapy long term. Also you can get your son set up with an IEP (individual education plan) that can help his teacher help him more. That is also helpful in homework, how he's handled at school so you are getting calls 100 times a day to come get him and helps avoid suspensions.

Hugs -
Glad you're here - and delighted to see so many people offering their advice - they wouldn't have advice if they hadn't lived like you are now - we're a pretty fantastic bunch of caring parents. Like I said - take what you can use - and don't worry about giving back for a long time - just get your son well. AND tell yourself it isn't something that has a cure - but it is a managable disorder (most days) and let the other days go or come here and vent.

 

[Tania_port]

Thanks! I dont know for sure about the sexual abuse. I only know andrew told me and i reported it to the cops and they had to examine at the child advacacy and questioned him. It was unfounded. Do you think that these kids like their parents at all? I havent ever really felt like hes liked me. I remember when he was a baby i had to hold him all the time and even then he was unhappy. Doctor said colic and reflex. Now i dont think so. I suspect hes been miserable since he was born. He didnt talk much till he was 2 and it was nothing much that he said. Just the small simple and point. Im guessing im not a doctor that hes born with this terrible defiant ****. Thanks for the warning. I know what to look out for. Did you by any chance notice if you turned your back on him he did worse stuff? Thats what im seeing with him now also. Im not going to keep him out of my sight now. Hes not going to hurt my 3 year old. You suggest locking his door when hes sleeping? Will the medications slow him down atleast a little? I know its not a cure. Maybe a tiny bit more sleep at night i hope for all of us. He wakes up all the time durning the night. I know its not really my parenting. If it was my girls would be messed up. Hes the only 1 i see what problems that are serious. The rest are pretty normal. You heard of play therapy? I also heard about the day therapy treatment. The sliding scale for 4 people is pretty low star. My husbands been working for the phone company for 27 years he makes good money. We dont qualify for much of anything. He makes good money on paper. I dont know if my husband is up for spending all his energy on andrew. I wish i could say yes. I dont think so though. I dont blame him either. I know andrew is hard and i put my nose where it doesnt belong sometimes. I dont think hes going to stay. I pray for guildence to help my son. Cause im lost at what to do. Its way beyond me knowing what to do. I am really confused and thats why i took andrew to that hospital in the beginning. You know they threw me all over the place and no body wants to do anything. I suppose hes just to young for some doctors to deal with. I had to change my pediatrician because she refused to put andrew on medications. She said it was out of her comfort zone. andrews behavior therapist said thats crock. Some kids are 3 when they get on medications. So he said change doctors. Doccument all things also. A new time out program also. How do i keep this plan and spend all my energy on 1 kid when i have 4??I dont only have 1 kid but 2 that live in my home and 2 other girls. I dont think this will work. Im going to try my hardest to follow his orders. Im exhaused though. Andrews been gone off and on since i took him to that hospital. Were happy for the peace but are stressed for when he comes back. I went to get him from his dads and he cried so he got to stay another night. Another night of all night sleep is nice. You sound like your angry star. If you dont want to post you dont gotta. Im new to all this ****. Disorder stuff i mean. He is like an alien. You are right. I thank you for the help. i dont mind critism. I had been with his father for 7 years which was the nasty of all nasty abusers to me.Socialpath. Prior to that, a man that was physically abusive 4 years. I can take it. Been there. You wont hurt my feelings. Im listening to ya. Getting this kiddo some help, hope for a little relief from somewhere. I dont care where it comes from. I bought that book the explose child. My huband says i will like it. He dont like it. I gotta try to defuse the fits before they get huge and blown up i think. Maybe i can distract him from what hes wanting to get mad about. Im going to try. Andrew gets back tomorrow and im taking him to doctor for medications. I will let you guys know whats up tomorrow.

 

[Stella]

Hi Tania. Wow! you really do have your hands full (as do the majority of us here!!!) Just want to welcome you to the board, Star and the others have given you some great advice. I have a feeling this board will be VERY beneficial to you and your difficult child so please keep posting.

I also just want to suggest for confidentiality and to protect you and your son's privacy that you might want to use different names.

You have a long road ahead of you but you have now started on the right path. We will all be here for you along your journey.

Stella.