Are any of our kids at this school that had the shooting?

[donna723]

I heard from my friend who lives in Danbury and thankfully none of his family members were involved. This school is just 15 miles from his home. But he said that this horrible event has just cast a pall over that whole area, people just walking around dazed from trying to take it all in and trying to make sense of it.

I won't take a hard stand on the gun control controversy either because honestly I can see both sides of it. Of course NOBODY needs assault weapons except the military and law enforcement. And I can understand people feeling that they need a weapon for personal protection for themselves, their families and their homes. Like Janet, I spent many years living in an isolated rural area where you would feel quite helpless without some kind of weapon available, even if you just use it on snakes. But certainly guns are way too easy to obtain in this country and are just as easy to get for the "bad guys" as they are to the responsible citizens who just want to protect their families. There are no easy answers.

I spent 24 years working in the prison system among these "bad guys" and I can assure you that if these people want guns, they WILL get them, even if they are banned and the responsible citizens are forbidden to own them. And from working there, I can also assure you that there are some people in this world who are truely EVIL, people who are just so "broken" that no amount of counseling or mental health care can fix them. They are almost like mutations. It does no good to try to understand the things that they do because they just don't think the same way that the rest of us do. And sometimes these people go home! I can't tell you how many times we have seen people who were truely. severely, dangerously mentally ill, one pill away from psychotic, who are released and on their own in society - no one to make sure they take their medications or get to appts. or to monitor what they do. They're out there and that's frightening. Our mental health care system is a shambles and there is no place for these people.

But these school shootings don't seem to be coming from these guys, it's usually the younger ones. Maybe some of them are like our "broken" inmates but at an earlier age? It's easy to spot a kid with bizarre behavior from severe mental illness or the ones with constant problems with the law or ones with severe drug or alcohol issues. But it always seems to be the "quiet ones", the ones who seem unlikely to do something like this, the ones flying under the radar. So how do you prevent these things from happening? I don't think we really can. Certainly tighter gun control and a complete overhaul of our mental health system would help, but sadly I don't think it would prevent it completely.

 

[tiredmommy]

Friends~ I would like to gently remind our membership that we do not allow political or religious discussions on this site as they often detract from our mission of supporting struggling parents of difficult childrens by people taking sides. I understand that emotions are rather high and that, in most of the world, gun control isn't necessarily considered a political issue but it is one here in the US. Let us please refrain from further discussion/debate on the open forum on this aspect of this horrible tragedy. As always, members may take such discussions to our personal messaging system. Thank you for your understanding.

 

[Kathy813]

Then he (or a cohort on at the same time) stated that most of these murderers are either teens or young adults and that the school systems Nationwhide "could" have a psychological test offered to all students in hopes of providing help to those who seem to need it. Brief discussion followed. One of the positive aspects of the idea was that the student would be speaking/testing with a caring stranger...not a hated teacher or a family doctor or the parents. It seemed to me that their "might" be some merit to the idea.

DDD, while I agree with you that it sounds like a good idea, I can't see that the parents in my community would agree to something like that. It would be seen as government intrusion on their rights as a parent. . . especially if the testing showed a mental illness. What if the parents did not agree with the finding? Does the government force the child into treatment over the objections of the parents?

I remember when a school district tried to weigh all of their elementary students and sent notes home if the child had a high BMI. The community went nuts and the school district backed down even though childhood obesity is an ever growing problem.

Sadly, there are no easy answers.

~Kathy

 

[DammitJanet]

TM, I didnt think it would be a political discussion personally. It is a debate sure. It doesnt fall along party lines. Sorry.

I will go off that topic and on to the mental health part if getting more of that passed in Congress isnt considered political too. I may have heard the same news cast or one similar as DDD where they talked about how most of the people who have been the shooters in these mass shootings have been young males in their late teens to early 20's and the descriptions of their personalities all seem quite similar. Quiet, loner, very bright...maybe a bit troubled. Well, that age is when schizophrenia rears its head and I wouldnt be surprised if that isnt what is behind darn near everyone of these. Can we prove it with the ones who shoot themselves? No. But just look at the ones who didnt. Most of them are quite mentally ill. Much more than simple depression or aspergers like they are talking about this boy having.

I cannot imagine that anyone who wasnt mentally insane would or even could, go into a school and shoot a school full of first graders. This was a boy who was from an upper middle class family. There had to be something very wrong with him neuropsychologically. Least that is my take on it.

 

[DDD]

I understand what you're saying Kathy and I guess, naively, I was thinking it could be an optional survey or test given to those of legal age with-o allowing the school system to share or utilize the results. Sounds more than a little vague, lol, I know. It's just so sad that thousands of kids have mental health issues or substance abuse issues and feel that there is no way to overcome the problems that are ruining their lives. I was fortunate that easy child/difficult child used to say "let her stay as she already knows about me" when new shrinks or counselors came on the scene. Of course it didn't shorten the long road to "some" stability but he didn't hide much from me. Most kids, on the other hand, know they need help but don't want their parents involved. How scarey it must be for them to be heading over the cliff and not trust anyone to help. If they could have confidential support it could make a huge differenc. So sad. DDD

 

[TerryJ2]

Malika, that's why a responsible gun owner keeps his guns locked up and only he knows where the key is.
But this kid was smart, smarter than his mom, I would guess.

I totally agree with this, which is why, a couple of times a year, I just quit reading the news for a few days, to take a mental health break (and it's not just the violence, it's the obsessions with-everything Hollywood does): Our press is not helping either, this constant coverage of tragedies such as these, giving the shooters much more media attention than they should ever have, glamorizing horror, makes it appealing to the right mind set to repeat or one up the last guy.

 

[Lothlorien]

I think there is a serious need for change in mental health issues. I've talked about this before...there was a child in our town, many years ago, who the parents had tried to get help for him over and over and were turned away. The child then murdered another child. Same thing...loner, quiet, etc. We, as a society, need to find a way to reach the unreachable.

 

[Malika]

Did this boy have any diagnoses? Was he receiving or asking for help? It's tremendously difficult to target quiet loners and dragoon them into getting help... But I do agree with TerryJ2's point that the mass mediatisation of this doubtless adds fuel to the fire of the desperate fantasies that form in these minds.

 

[TerryJ2]

Kathy and DDD, if it's the same kind of testing my son had, say, the MMI, I have no idea where we'd get the funding.

B

I agree with-this: "But these school shootings don't seem to be coming from these guys, it's usually the younger ones. Maybe some of them are like our "broken" inmates but at an earlier age? It's easy to spot a kid with bizarre behavior from severe mental illness or the ones with constant problems with the law or ones with severe drug or alcohol issues. But it always seems to be the "quiet ones", the ones who seem unlikely to do something like this, the ones flying under the radar. So how do you prevent these things from happening? I don't think we really can."

 

[Signorina]

Politics, gun control, and all of that aside; I am heartsick thatched shooter's mother is being vilified by so many people- the press and the public at large. As though she was a co-conspirator or bears responsibility. She was not a perp -she is a VICTIM and was murdered by her son!!

I swear, if I see one more FB post about how this is a "parenting failure" I am going to scream! Any of us with "adult" children at risk know how darn near impossible it is to have any say in their lives! We can't compel them to get help! How I wish we could - once they're 18 we can't even request a copy of their grades or check to see of they're attending class! We're the ones who kept them clothed and fed and kissed their boo boos, got them braces and soccer balls and were d@mn good mothers- often the people who know our kids the best - and yet the minute they turn 18; our concerns have no legal merit and half the time they're met with suspicion or hostility by the very people we are asking to help our kids.

This young adult man had no known history of violence and his mother was killed first. My heart breaks for ALL of his victims, including her. I can't imagine dying knowing it was at the hand of your child- only solace is she never knew what he did after he shot her.

Of course I take this all back if it turns out she was a diabolical monster but I thinks it's awful that she is not being treated like a victim.

 

[BusynMember]

I think assault weapon ownership should be banned.

No other country has the homicide by gun ratio that we do. I guess most outlaws don't get guns outside of the US. I'm ok with guns for protection at home, but this tragedy shows just how easy it is for a mentally ill person to get his hands on all kinds of guns. I have never heard of a school shooting in any other country. Has there been?

 

[pasajes4]

There have been school shootings in Germany. In the early 90's we had school shootings between rival gang members in the inner city school where I was teaching. The guns were given to them. Some of the guns were traced back to the SAPD property impound. If a person is determined to get a weapon, they will find one. Some of the guns were homemade Saturday night specials.

 

[DammitJanet]

MWM...not allowed to talk about that but actually our murder rate by guns isnt all that different per ca pita than other countries. We just have more people.

I agree with you Sig. The mother evidently did do what she could if this boy actually had diagnosis's. From what I have heard reported, he has some diagnosis's which means he has been to psychiatrists. He was also taken out of school due to bullying and home schooled for a time so that shows she must have been caring on at least some level. Parents who dont give a damn dont do either of those things.

 

[Kathy813]

Here is a link to a powerful article by a mother of a violent mentally ill son:

http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother

I understand about the posts complaining about the villification of the parents of the Sandy Hook shooter. I have to ask, though, why the mother of a mentally ill son would have assault weapons in her home and take him target shooting.

 

[Nancy]

My thoughts too Kathy.

 

[Signorina]

I understand he wasn't violent, just a diagnosis of Aspergers . No history of violence rather his HS administrators were concerned that he could be a bullying victim which did not happen. But these are all early reports; who knows?

Regardless, she was a victim not an accomplice. He took her guns after he killed her. I am not taking a stance on gun control or making a statement. Maybe she shouldn't have had the guns, but she paid the ultimate price too.

 

[SuZir]

Very powerful article, Kathy, thank you for sharing.

There was a time when I feared I would be that mother too. We had a school shooting type of an incident (except it wasn't school or shooting) near us when my difficult child was around ten, he was eleven or twelve when I read a book written by a parent of the culprit. That was when I understood it could be my son in few short years. After that there was times when it look even worse. While he wasn't physically violent after quite an early age, many school shooters have not been either. My son's life turned to different direction, partly because he luckily happened to be talented in something so socially accepted as sports, but I can still see, how it could had begun to develop to other direction during his most difficult teen years. With him bullying on it self, and of course the social skills defects that both led to bullying and got worse because of that, were the major issue, not a traditional mental illness (he is neither bipolar or schizophrenic.) Still I can still see, how I could had been that mother.

 

[DazedandConfused]

Actually the US has a much higher murder rate by far, per 100,000 people, than any other developed nation on earth. Chili is second but they don't come close to the US.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ed-killings-than-any-other-developed-country/

I had the same concern as Kathy. Why all the guns? Not blaming HER for what happened, but it is puzzling.

 

[DammitJanet]

She was a survivalist. There are many of them out there and in fact they had an entire show on one of the networks but I cant remember the name of it. They taught all the members of the family how to live off the land in case society as we know it fell. I dont know if that is a realistic threat or not but it was her beliefs and she was entitled to them. I would assume she had no reason to believe her son was violent. I stand behind my belief that schizophrenia has a place in this but we will never know it because he killed himself so we cannot ever prove that. Its a shame. However, what she "collected" had no bearing really. She could have had a shed full of fertilizer and the end result would have been the same. Her son was smart enough to have used the computer and pulled a Timothy McVeigh.

 

[DammitJanet]

Good wishes for the families.