by the way - the girl I scared so badly? Didn't attend if she could get away with it and dropped out of any group that I was part of in sixth grade. She went from an A/B student to almost flunking out. Even though I went to a different school and then moved to a different state, she still kept waiting for me to "get her family" for years afterward. I learned this when I re-connected with some of the people I knew back then. I felt really awful until I realized how many years I used those same maladaptive behaviors that I learned from her. It managed to damage both of us in some pretty major ways.
Marguerite
Active Member
While can't condone bullying back (because it often just keeps the bully away from you - it doesn't stop the bad behaviour, just drives it elsewhere and almost endorses it) I do understand that sometimes you feel there is no other alternative.
easy child 2/difficult child 2 used to get bullied every day on the boat to and from the island. Think of it as like the school bus, only the kids can get up and move around. One group of boys used to torment easy child 2/difficult child 2 a lot, because she was small and cute, looked a lot younger than her years. Some girls began to join in the 'fun' so easy child 2/difficult child 2 cultivated the belief that she was a witch and would put a curse on anyone who annoyed her. She became very accomplished at projecting an air of quiet menace, plus she began publicly reading books of spells. I remember finding these books and talking to her about them, explaining the psychology behind them ("It's not magic, kiddo, there are sound reasons for it to 'sell' to kids like you") and eventually she explained what she was up to. I had 'friends' from various churches in town 'warning' me about my wayward daughter dabbling in the occult. But as it turned out, she wasn't dabbling at all. Just pretending to. It did work - the worst of the bullies became so scared of her that he wouldn't come near her. Before that, this kid would be shouting out to her and difficult child 1, "Aren't you the ones with the retard little brother?"
One memorable day, the bully was approaching easy child 2/difficult child 2 who made it clear, by her body language, that all she wanted to do was read her book in peace. She kept her head down on her book and continued to turn pages calmly.
"Will you go out with my friend?" asked the bully.
"No". Page turned.
"Why not?"
"Because he's a [expletive referring to a part of male anatomy]."
"Oh. Well, would you go out with me?"
"No." Another page turned. Still not looking up.
"Why not?"
""Because you're a [expletive referring to a part of male anatomy]."
She never raised her voice, her eyes or a finger. But the menace was there and the guy backed right off.
All this happened very publicly. At about that time she sent her friend to pass the word - do not annoy easy child 2/difficult child 2, she is making a voodoo doll of you and collected a hair as you leant over her book.
The down side of this, is that the "nice girls" from church were warned off friendship with easy child 2/difficult child 2 for fear she could corrupt them. Now they're all adults, they often talk when they meet, but it was a problem for us for a while, with well-meaning people trying to teach us how to parent our kids. I do get cranky with people who haven't a clue!
Marg
easy child 2/difficult child 2 used to get bullied every day on the boat to and from the island. Think of it as like the school bus, only the kids can get up and move around. One group of boys used to torment easy child 2/difficult child 2 a lot, because she was small and cute, looked a lot younger than her years. Some girls began to join in the 'fun' so easy child 2/difficult child 2 cultivated the belief that she was a witch and would put a curse on anyone who annoyed her. She became very accomplished at projecting an air of quiet menace, plus she began publicly reading books of spells. I remember finding these books and talking to her about them, explaining the psychology behind them ("It's not magic, kiddo, there are sound reasons for it to 'sell' to kids like you") and eventually she explained what she was up to. I had 'friends' from various churches in town 'warning' me about my wayward daughter dabbling in the occult. But as it turned out, she wasn't dabbling at all. Just pretending to. It did work - the worst of the bullies became so scared of her that he wouldn't come near her. Before that, this kid would be shouting out to her and difficult child 1, "Aren't you the ones with the retard little brother?"
One memorable day, the bully was approaching easy child 2/difficult child 2 who made it clear, by her body language, that all she wanted to do was read her book in peace. She kept her head down on her book and continued to turn pages calmly.
"Will you go out with my friend?" asked the bully.
"No". Page turned.
"Why not?"
"Because he's a [expletive referring to a part of male anatomy]."
"Oh. Well, would you go out with me?"
"No." Another page turned. Still not looking up.
"Why not?"
""Because you're a [expletive referring to a part of male anatomy]."
She never raised her voice, her eyes or a finger. But the menace was there and the guy backed right off.
All this happened very publicly. At about that time she sent her friend to pass the word - do not annoy easy child 2/difficult child 2, she is making a voodoo doll of you and collected a hair as you leant over her book.
The down side of this, is that the "nice girls" from church were warned off friendship with easy child 2/difficult child 2 for fear she could corrupt them. Now they're all adults, they often talk when they meet, but it was a problem for us for a while, with well-meaning people trying to teach us how to parent our kids. I do get cranky with people who haven't a clue!
Marg
H
HaoZi
Guest
I did something very similar in middle and high school, but most of my being bullied years were elementary school and social ousting was elementary and middle. I was already a confirmed pagan in high school (if you asked me, that was, not if you asked my parents), and since most people associate that with a lot of the dark side of occult, I did not discourage their ignorance. High school ended up being a lot better than middle school.
I learned who my real friends are, and I'm still friends with a number of them now, even if we don't keep contact that well we can easily talk when we do. We grew our "rhinoskins" together. My friends get that I have to have time alone to recharge and that being around people for too long a period of time (which varies) makes me edgy. Neither EX got that, they constantly needed to be around people.
I learned who my real friends are, and I'm still friends with a number of them now, even if we don't keep contact that well we can easily talk when we do. We grew our "rhinoskins" together. My friends get that I have to have time alone to recharge and that being around people for too long a period of time (which varies) makes me edgy. Neither EX got that, they constantly needed to be around people.
AnnieO
Shooting from the Hip
I'm extremely ticklish. But here's something interesting - only a very few people are capable of actually tickling me.
Myself - yup. Not on purpose, but I can do it. My parents, BFF, husband and BFF's 5-y/o daughter. With parents and the guys - it's a trust issue. With the 5-y/o - I have no clue. None.
Jett is horribly ticklish. I had to tell Onyxx - no more tickling your brother. She would do it until he wet himself. And still tries - I throw a fit (metaphorically) when she does. I've told her as far as I am concerned, her tickling him like that is domestic violence and I can and will call the police on her.
Now me? I'll make tickling motions from across the room at him, which makes him giggle. And every now and again, a light, short tickle - same as husband - as affection. But never more than about 2 seconds' worth - enough to get the point across - that I know them well - without being torture.
Regardless. Tickle fights between good friends are one thing. But it's so easy to cross the line. Really easy. And it can easily be abusive.
Myself - yup. Not on purpose, but I can do it. My parents, BFF, husband and BFF's 5-y/o daughter. With parents and the guys - it's a trust issue. With the 5-y/o - I have no clue. None.
Jett is horribly ticklish. I had to tell Onyxx - no more tickling your brother. She would do it until he wet himself. And still tries - I throw a fit (metaphorically) when she does. I've told her as far as I am concerned, her tickling him like that is domestic violence and I can and will call the police on her.
Now me? I'll make tickling motions from across the room at him, which makes him giggle. And every now and again, a light, short tickle - same as husband - as affection. But never more than about 2 seconds' worth - enough to get the point across - that I know them well - without being torture.
Regardless. Tickle fights between good friends are one thing. But it's so easy to cross the line. Really easy. And it can easily be abusive.
baseballmothe
New Member
This is the biggest catch 22 question out there and it can be both in good fun and can lead up to torture. As mentioned before by Susiestar, TerryJ, and lots of others, the problem is the laughing. When someone is being tickled they are laughing and while begging to stop, how can they take it seriously?
Also the catch 22 part comes with this. Suppose someone asks you if they are ticklish, if you say yes, that more or less gives you the green light to go ahead. If they say no, they'll do it to you anyways and I don't care what anyone says, you have a ticklish spot somewhere (like the feet or sides/ribs).
Now, this is related to my other post about the kids playing a game and how I have seem my kids play like that, but don't want them tied, but when I was a child, I had an older brother do this to me. It all started when I was trying to watch TV when he came in and wanted to and asked if I was ticklish because I would get it. The next thing I know when I get up, he sneaks up behind me when I come back and pins me down. He said he is going to count my ribs, and starts stroking his fingers trying to "grab" my ribs and started counting, 1, 2, oh sorry I lost count, that was torture.
A few weeks later my brother had a science experiment in which he had to buy a big thing of twine for it (this is why I asked TerryJ in the other post, how she knawed). He had a lot left over and one day when I was at the computer first he wanted it. He picked me up and carried me off the chair (I was 15, he was 17, obviously a female vs male, he was much stronger). He took a part of the twine and tied my hands behind my back. As I am screaming at him, he then cuts more twine, leads me back to the chair, makes me sit, and actually ties me to the chair). He left for a minute, all the while trying to stand up and move and yelling at him, he comes back with a feather duster and starts tickling me all the while screaming to stop. He got tired of my laughing so grabbed a bandana and tied it into my mouth. He let me go after about 20 minutes, and told me if I ever told he would do it again.
So I am not sure how I would have handled him, it is wrong to do that and people should say no and it should stop, but sometimes it happens without them listening.
Also the catch 22 part comes with this. Suppose someone asks you if they are ticklish, if you say yes, that more or less gives you the green light to go ahead. If they say no, they'll do it to you anyways and I don't care what anyone says, you have a ticklish spot somewhere (like the feet or sides/ribs).
Now, this is related to my other post about the kids playing a game and how I have seem my kids play like that, but don't want them tied, but when I was a child, I had an older brother do this to me. It all started when I was trying to watch TV when he came in and wanted to and asked if I was ticklish because I would get it. The next thing I know when I get up, he sneaks up behind me when I come back and pins me down. He said he is going to count my ribs, and starts stroking his fingers trying to "grab" my ribs and started counting, 1, 2, oh sorry I lost count, that was torture.
A few weeks later my brother had a science experiment in which he had to buy a big thing of twine for it (this is why I asked TerryJ in the other post, how she knawed). He had a lot left over and one day when I was at the computer first he wanted it. He picked me up and carried me off the chair (I was 15, he was 17, obviously a female vs male, he was much stronger). He took a part of the twine and tied my hands behind my back. As I am screaming at him, he then cuts more twine, leads me back to the chair, makes me sit, and actually ties me to the chair). He left for a minute, all the while trying to stand up and move and yelling at him, he comes back with a feather duster and starts tickling me all the while screaming to stop. He got tired of my laughing so grabbed a bandana and tied it into my mouth. He let me go after about 20 minutes, and told me if I ever told he would do it again.
So I am not sure how I would have handled him, it is wrong to do that and people should say no and it should stop, but sometimes it happens without them listening.
keista
New Member
What your brother did to you was abuse. Plain and simple, and he knew it, too
As it relates to your kids, the answer is quite simple. Assuming all are willing participants, but things sometimes go too far, everyone MUST realize that ALL games have RULES. With tickling, the simple rule is, that if someone says stop, you stop. It doesn't matter if they are laughing. STOP means STOP just like NO means NO. If they don't respect that simple rule, then game is over and some sort of punishment/time out/grounding is in order. This is simply because if that STOP is not adhered to, it does become torture, and it is considered abuse, and that person not respecting the boundaries of STOP is looking to exert their power or control.
I tickle my girls ALL the time. The second they say STOP, I stop. They catch their breath, and we go again (with their permission). After a while, they are done and the game is over.
And I just realized this is an old thread, so I haven't read any previous posts.
That statement alone, without a doubt confirms it.
As it relates to your kids, the answer is quite simple. Assuming all are willing participants, but things sometimes go too far, everyone MUST realize that ALL games have RULES. With tickling, the simple rule is, that if someone says stop, you stop. It doesn't matter if they are laughing. STOP means STOP just like NO means NO. If they don't respect that simple rule, then game is over and some sort of punishment/time out/grounding is in order. This is simply because if that STOP is not adhered to, it does become torture, and it is considered abuse, and that person not respecting the boundaries of STOP is looking to exert their power or control.
I tickle my girls ALL the time. The second they say STOP, I stop. They catch their breath, and we go again (with their permission). After a while, they are done and the game is over.
And I just realized this is an old thread, so I haven't read any previous posts.
baseballmothe
New Member
Thank you.
Abuse, I never thought of that really. He was my stepbrother, hadn't known him that long. I always thought that was his way of powering over me, never understood why he tickled me a handful of times, but my guess is he liked to see me beg him to stop. I guess it wasn't that bad, I survived.
Would that be an example of his life changing, a few years prior gaining a stepsister didn't like it, and therefore he took it out on me while not hating me, he needed control so he took it out on me, does that make sense? Also he learned to tie knots from the scouts years back, is that an example of an abuse of power, that that is not a reason to tie knots?
I think that idea is good, if you let them catch their breath and if they say yes continue, otherwise stop.
I never look at a feather duster the same, lol
Abuse, I never thought of that really. He was my stepbrother, hadn't known him that long. I always thought that was his way of powering over me, never understood why he tickled me a handful of times, but my guess is he liked to see me beg him to stop. I guess it wasn't that bad, I survived.
Would that be an example of his life changing, a few years prior gaining a stepsister didn't like it, and therefore he took it out on me while not hating me, he needed control so he took it out on me, does that make sense? Also he learned to tie knots from the scouts years back, is that an example of an abuse of power, that that is not a reason to tie knots?
I think that idea is good, if you let them catch their breath and if they say yes continue, otherwise stop.
I never look at a feather duster the same, lol
keista
New Member
It makes perfect sense, it doesn't make it right. But, as you said, you survived, there's no need to really dwell on it, however if you have a serious problem with feather dusters, you might want to work it out. I'm just guessing that you don't work in a feather duster factory and don't plan on it either. Good thing also that there are alternatives to feather dusters these days.
I wouldn't go that far. The scouts don't go around warning the boys not to use these skills for 'evil' purposes - it's not like Karate lol.
