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Arguments over car
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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 752492" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>I am sorry I am seeing this so late.</p><p></p><p>This exact thing happens to me with my son. About the exact same thing. Lies. Manipulations. Failure to follow through on commitments.</p><p></p><p>And I erupt in the exact same way.</p><p></p><p>My son and I were very, very close. M has said that he does not think my son loves me now. I believe he does but can't act from it. This feels the same as if he didn't love me.</p><p>I think the remedy is to come into balance in yourself. To forgive yourself. I don't think you have to clean it up with your daughter, except to say, <em>I overreacted when we spoke last night, I'm sorry.</em>(You don't have to spell it out. You don't have to qualify it. You don't have to grovel. Just words like that. I would not get drawn into more conversation about the issue until you figure out where you stand. See below)</p><p>You are giving yourself too much power and control here. Nothing you say or do will effect how she acts. Or how she feels about herself. She is an adult woman. You can only effect how you feel and what you do. She will either act well or poorly. She will either strive to deal with her feelings about herself, directly or in some other way. The deciding is in her.</p><p></p><p>It is not wrong to limit her use of your car. It is not wrong to protect yourself. If you do not feel safe or if you feel anxious about the car, or her use of the car, it is entirely fair and just to limit her use of it. In exactly the way you want. Her requirements and desires are hers to deal with.</p><p></p><p>Personally, I think that the original plan had merit. That she use the car to go back and forth to school and to shop.</p><p></p><p>Now all of a sudden things have ballooned to the girlfriend, etc. The job, etc. You have every right to decide this is too much. All of it or part of it.</p><p></p><p>You could tell her:</p><p><em></em></p><p><em>I realize that I spoke to soon and I am not comfortable with xxx and yyy. That's partly why I overreacted. I'm sorry. Had I thought a bit more I would have realized I only feel comfortable with xxx and yyy.</em></p><p>You must get to the point where you tolerate her pulling back. She requires this of you psychologically in order to be able to pull and push herself into adulthood. If she senses you are destroyed or distraught by her separation she will continue to protect you by staying immature and dysfunctional. (At the same time it's not your fault she has set upon this constellation of behaviors in order to cope. While she needs you to be big and strong and self-sufficient, she needs to come to the point of taking responsibility for better choices, coping, and functioning.)</p><p></p><p>I am in exactly the same place with my son. I feel exactly the same way as do you. I cope in exactly the same way. And I react in the same way.</p><p></p><p>We don't control and we're not responsible that our children can't or won't function better. But we are responsible for accepting the reality that they present us with, in this present moment to respond the best we can. I am dealing with this same thing.</p><p></p><p>Many of us were not able to separate psychologically from our own mothers. I was one of these women. Whether this is because our mothers were dependent upon us; or competitive, or jealous, it's different for all of us. But when our children are growing up and pull away, either in a normal way or a dysfunctional way, these old wounds are triggered. It's our challenge to deal with them through therapy, groups, introspection, etc. We can't heal by way of expecting our children to heal us or to take away our pain. Even though it feels like they are the ones that have created this hurt. They didn't. They just triggered it.</p><p></p><p>It's hard, hard, hard.</p><p></p><p>What happened with my girlfriend and her daughter who is a recovering bulimic is that the daughter occupied a role in her life that her husband should have filled. Her husband is an alcoholic. The mother unconsciously made the daughter an ally against the father and the daughter has hostility towards her father. The mother sees this now.</p><p></p><p>These things can be worked out in time. But it's necessary to recognize the dynamic. Which is not so easy. Because we have so much guilt. In my own case I have a very hard time forgiving myself for anything. And as long as I don't forgive myself I will have a hard time having emotional energy to deal with my real life and responding to my son in appropriate ways based upon real circumstances.</p><p></p><p>Our real lives only exist in the present moment. To grieve about what should have been, could be, is to give up the richness and possibility of the present moment.</p><p></p><p>You are doing this. In real time. The thing to do NOW is to forgive yourself and to wipe the slate clean. Me too. Then decide what you would feel safe with, what you would NOT feel anxious about. What you feel would keep your daughter safe. In your own head. Knowing that you have no control over what she does. Nor do you have responsibility to ensure she does the right thing. Nor do you have the power to catalyze good choices, or self-esteem. All we can do is take our best shot.</p><p></p><p>How can you leave on that plane feeling you acted responsibly to yourself with respect to the car?</p><p></p><p>You can't make her feel good about herself. You can't give her the confidence to do the right thing. You can't by your blind trust, make her trustworthy. You can only try to determine what your needs are about the car.</p><p></p><p>I would re-read your posts. In those posts you write how you really feel about the car. Listen to yourself. That's what I think.</p><p></p><p>What will restore your internal calm is centering yourself in you.</p><p></p><p>PS If she wants to work she is responsible to figure out how to get herself there and back. That is what I think.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 752492, member: 18958"] I am sorry I am seeing this so late. This exact thing happens to me with my son. About the exact same thing. Lies. Manipulations. Failure to follow through on commitments. And I erupt in the exact same way. My son and I were very, very close. M has said that he does not think my son loves me now. I believe he does but can't act from it. This feels the same as if he didn't love me. I think the remedy is to come into balance in yourself. To forgive yourself. I don't think you have to clean it up with your daughter, except to say, [I]I overreacted when we spoke last night, I'm sorry.[/I](You don't have to spell it out. You don't have to qualify it. You don't have to grovel. Just words like that. I would not get drawn into more conversation about the issue until you figure out where you stand. See below) You are giving yourself too much power and control here. Nothing you say or do will effect how she acts. Or how she feels about herself. She is an adult woman. You can only effect how you feel and what you do. She will either act well or poorly. She will either strive to deal with her feelings about herself, directly or in some other way. The deciding is in her. It is not wrong to limit her use of your car. It is not wrong to protect yourself. If you do not feel safe or if you feel anxious about the car, or her use of the car, it is entirely fair and just to limit her use of it. In exactly the way you want. Her requirements and desires are hers to deal with. Personally, I think that the original plan had merit. That she use the car to go back and forth to school and to shop. Now all of a sudden things have ballooned to the girlfriend, etc. The job, etc. You have every right to decide this is too much. All of it or part of it. You could tell her: [I] I realize that I spoke to soon and I am not comfortable with xxx and yyy. That's partly why I overreacted. I'm sorry. Had I thought a bit more I would have realized I only feel comfortable with xxx and yyy.[/I] You must get to the point where you tolerate her pulling back. She requires this of you psychologically in order to be able to pull and push herself into adulthood. If she senses you are destroyed or distraught by her separation she will continue to protect you by staying immature and dysfunctional. (At the same time it's not your fault she has set upon this constellation of behaviors in order to cope. While she needs you to be big and strong and self-sufficient, she needs to come to the point of taking responsibility for better choices, coping, and functioning.) I am in exactly the same place with my son. I feel exactly the same way as do you. I cope in exactly the same way. And I react in the same way. We don't control and we're not responsible that our children can't or won't function better. But we are responsible for accepting the reality that they present us with, in this present moment to respond the best we can. I am dealing with this same thing. Many of us were not able to separate psychologically from our own mothers. I was one of these women. Whether this is because our mothers were dependent upon us; or competitive, or jealous, it's different for all of us. But when our children are growing up and pull away, either in a normal way or a dysfunctional way, these old wounds are triggered. It's our challenge to deal with them through therapy, groups, introspection, etc. We can't heal by way of expecting our children to heal us or to take away our pain. Even though it feels like they are the ones that have created this hurt. They didn't. They just triggered it. It's hard, hard, hard. What happened with my girlfriend and her daughter who is a recovering bulimic is that the daughter occupied a role in her life that her husband should have filled. Her husband is an alcoholic. The mother unconsciously made the daughter an ally against the father and the daughter has hostility towards her father. The mother sees this now. These things can be worked out in time. But it's necessary to recognize the dynamic. Which is not so easy. Because we have so much guilt. In my own case I have a very hard time forgiving myself for anything. And as long as I don't forgive myself I will have a hard time having emotional energy to deal with my real life and responding to my son in appropriate ways based upon real circumstances. Our real lives only exist in the present moment. To grieve about what should have been, could be, is to give up the richness and possibility of the present moment. You are doing this. In real time. The thing to do NOW is to forgive yourself and to wipe the slate clean. Me too. Then decide what you would feel safe with, what you would NOT feel anxious about. What you feel would keep your daughter safe. In your own head. Knowing that you have no control over what she does. Nor do you have responsibility to ensure she does the right thing. Nor do you have the power to catalyze good choices, or self-esteem. All we can do is take our best shot. How can you leave on that plane feeling you acted responsibly to yourself with respect to the car? You can't make her feel good about herself. You can't give her the confidence to do the right thing. You can't by your blind trust, make her trustworthy. You can only try to determine what your needs are about the car. I would re-read your posts. In those posts you write how you really feel about the car. Listen to yourself. That's what I think. What will restore your internal calm is centering yourself in you. PS If she wants to work she is responsible to figure out how to get herself there and back. That is what I think. [/QUOTE]
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