Article on narcissism
- Thread starter recoveringenabler
- Start date
I go back and forth all the time with that. I have never come to a clear answer. Maybe a little bit of both. However, no doubt that he was really just that good because even if I was a reasonably secure person with a healthy self esteem, he still would have been able to do what he did. He is VERY, very, veerrryyyyyy good. That's how he was able to win me back.
2much2recover
Well-Known Member
Personally I believe the USA's NIH (National Institute of Health) should be the recognized authority on what these disorders are and rude behavior instead of helpful and civil disclose has no place on a support group.
Adding ones opinions is not the same as trying to build upon your own self esteem while trashing the ideas and informed opinions of another group member. Even if one DID hold a degree in these types of topics of what value is it if what is said holds only argumentative value? Something to ponder.
Adding ones opinions is not the same as trying to build upon your own self esteem while trashing the ideas and informed opinions of another group member. Even if one DID hold a degree in these types of topics of what value is it if what is said holds only argumentative value? Something to ponder.
Am I missing something? Did someone trash another member's opinion?
Hope_Floats
Member
We can be a sensitive lot, can't we? As much as all of us have suffered and endured, with the battle scars to prove it, I suppose it is understandable that when we offer input based on informed opinions that someone else contradicts with other informed opinions (based on different or additional experience and/or information), we feel slighted and may take something personally which wasn't meant to be at all.
It's a good point though, I think, because, as I was reading through this discussion that advanced from the sharing of one article, I did feel an impulse to throw in my two cents worth on a couple of points that were slightly different from someone else's two cents, and in my informed opinion more accurate, of course
. But I stopped myself and chuckled to myself, saying "Look at all of us experts on mental illness, pontificating with such surety about what we think we know, lol. I should go to the gym instead. That would be more productive." So here I go.
It's a good point though, I think, because, as I was reading through this discussion that advanced from the sharing of one article, I did feel an impulse to throw in my two cents worth on a couple of points that were slightly different from someone else's two cents, and in my informed opinion more accurate, of course
. But I stopped myself and chuckled to myself, saying "Look at all of us experts on mental illness, pontificating with such surety about what we think we know, lol. I should go to the gym instead. That would be more productive." So here I go.
Last edited:
2much2recover
Well-Known Member
Personally I just thought is was rude to say " you are wrong" especially after I had just shared what my therapist, whom by the way is also head of the psychology department at the University, told me yesterday, that the health insurance companies are no longer allowing billings for personality disorders. ( co-conditions of mental illness would be covered, LOL to rid you of the wiggle room to be right) Now I suppose he could be lying to me but I will take his word over a couple of rude comments just tossed out there for what value I have no idea what? That is also why I suggested that we use for others who come along and want the latest accurate information to the NIH on Mental illness rather than take as Bible the opinions by mis-guided efforts to help, and their need to be right, even if they'd rather be inappropriately rude to make their argument.
Now you can argue all day whether I am right or wrong, but having sadly having raised a sociopath, I left no information stone unturned before discovering what her problem was. So pardon me if I don't really think much of your judgement of whether I am right or wrong.
Are you aware by talking to new people to the board in this way, you may drive them away from the very support they need?
Now you can argue all day whether I am right or wrong, but having sadly having raised a sociopath, I left no information stone unturned before discovering what her problem was. So pardon me if I don't really think much of your judgement of whether I am right or wrong.
Are you aware by talking to new people to the board in this way, you may drive them away from the very support they need?
I never said you were wrong, so I am going to safely assume you weren't talking about me, which is what I was worried about. I didn't want you to feel that way about me.
2much2recover
Well-Known Member
PLUS what MWM posted, have her blocked on here but come up on my tablet. There is nothing wrong with having a difference of opinion - but just to flat out say that someone is "WRONG" with out knowing what they know, what their education level is or just to say it so they sound superior is just wrong in my opinion. This is the second time I have been told in a "definite way" that I am wrong on something that I happen to be highly educated on. Like I said in the last one, if I want to argue something out with someone I will just open up contact with my sociopath daughter. So now I am going to block this thread from seeing anymore conversation on it because I have no interest in battling on a support forum who is right and who is wrong. May I suggest that instead of being definitive on who is "right" and who is "wrong that we use softer language? In my opinion it would have been must better to have said well "this is my opinion" than to just say flat out "You are wrong". Communication is a key that we need to use in respectful ways to one another.
2much2recover
Well-Known Member
Well actually I will add this one last thing as proof I, via my therapist am not spreading "wrong" or inaccurate information: http://www.apa.org/monitor/mar04/axis.aspx
"The bottom line is, even though insurance company policies vary, most don't want to provide long-term treatments, and PDs require long-term care, says psychologist Jeffrey Young, PhD, of Columbia University. The main reason therapists typically bill--and are reimbursed--for Axis I disorders is companies assume that Axis I problems can be alleviated over a relatively short time, in a set number of sessions, says Young."
"
However, attaining reimbursement for PD treatment remains an uphill battle, say those involved. Not only is the reimbursement problem rooted in the stigma surrounding PDs, but it's also a result of managed care's ongoing efforts to cut costs by limiting services wherever they can, says Russ Newman, PhD, JD, APA's executive director for professional practice.
"Personality disorders become a good target for cuts because of the prejudice that these patients aren't going to get better," he says. "Alternatively, there's an assumption that because it's not a critically life-threatening situation, it's not debilitating. But that's just not the case. These disorders have a really limiting effect on all facets of a patient's life: career, family and general stability."
And while all PDs are equally limiting, payment for treatment of PDs besides borderline, such as antisocial or narcissistic PD, is a particularly long shot, says Young, because the treatments have only been anecdotally proven effective."
"The bottom line is, even though insurance company policies vary, most don't want to provide long-term treatments, and PDs require long-term care, says psychologist Jeffrey Young, PhD, of Columbia University. The main reason therapists typically bill--and are reimbursed--for Axis I disorders is companies assume that Axis I problems can be alleviated over a relatively short time, in a set number of sessions, says Young."
"
However, attaining reimbursement for PD treatment remains an uphill battle, say those involved. Not only is the reimbursement problem rooted in the stigma surrounding PDs, but it's also a result of managed care's ongoing efforts to cut costs by limiting services wherever they can, says Russ Newman, PhD, JD, APA's executive director for professional practice.
"Personality disorders become a good target for cuts because of the prejudice that these patients aren't going to get better," he says. "Alternatively, there's an assumption that because it's not a critically life-threatening situation, it's not debilitating. But that's just not the case. These disorders have a really limiting effect on all facets of a patient's life: career, family and general stability."
And while all PDs are equally limiting, payment for treatment of PDs besides borderline, such as antisocial or narcissistic PD, is a particularly long shot, says Young, because the treatments have only been anecdotally proven effective."
Absolutely. It's even a problem here where we have publicly-funded health care.
I began this thread in the hopes of simply sharing information. I too have done a lot of studying of the various forms of mental illness and disorders of the mind and I've had 22 years of therapy. One thing that I have learned in my journey is that opinions abound on all of these subjects and there are many experts who differ. As we do here. Perhaps we might try being a little more sympathetic to each other and our various forms of communicating without taking everything personally. If someone says I am wrong, well, that is their opinion, it is not fact. Just as what I am saying is my opinion, it is not fact. Facts are hard to come by and opinions are rampant.
Lately there have been too many immediate negative responses flying around and I am making a public request to have it stop now. Just as we have to learn to refrain and think before we act with our difficult child's, as adults here, we have to learn to let things go........if your feelings are hurt, then sit on it for a little while and try to determine if that person was intentionally trying to harm you. More often then not, that is NOT the case. It is simply someone's opinion. ......I see people sharing what they believe to be the truth from their vantage point. If you don't like their style or the way they say something it is easy enough to ignore that person. There is no point in publicly bashing someone.
From this point on, if this continues I will lock the thread immediately. This is not the place for bickering about right and wrong, or taking things personally.
Lately there have been too many immediate negative responses flying around and I am making a public request to have it stop now. Just as we have to learn to refrain and think before we act with our difficult child's, as adults here, we have to learn to let things go........if your feelings are hurt, then sit on it for a little while and try to determine if that person was intentionally trying to harm you. More often then not, that is NOT the case. It is simply someone's opinion. ......I see people sharing what they believe to be the truth from their vantage point. If you don't like their style or the way they say something it is easy enough to ignore that person. There is no point in publicly bashing someone.
From this point on, if this continues I will lock the thread immediately. This is not the place for bickering about right and wrong, or taking things personally.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Thank you, RE.
Last edited:
Hope_Floats
Member
Totally agree, RE. We all have different communication styles, some more direct and some more indirect. I would hope that if, someone communicates in a more direct style than suits our sensitivities, that we would show each other some grace around that, and, given that we're all in the same boat here, assume positive intent and move on. As MWM often advises, take what you find helpful here, and leave the rest.
Thank you RE, for posting the article, even though the discussion did appear to get a little out of hand. I found the article interesting.
I especially enjoyed the new term I learned from one of the links MWM shared: Hoover, or hoovering. (Hoovers & Hoovering - A Hoover is a metaphor taken from the popular brand of vacuum cleaners, to describe how an abuse victim trying to assert their own rights by leaving or limiting contact in a dysfunctional relationship, gets “sucked back in” when the perpetrator temporarily exhibits improved or desirable behavior.) That one made me chuckle. I have experienced that, but didn't have a name to call it, other than "battered woman syndrome". I like "being hoovered" so much better. Actually, in my case, given the skill of the individual, I think it was more like a Dyson. I was dysoned, lol!
Thank you RE, for posting the article, even though the discussion did appear to get a little out of hand. I found the article interesting.
I especially enjoyed the new term I learned from one of the links MWM shared: Hoover, or hoovering. (Hoovers & Hoovering - A Hoover is a metaphor taken from the popular brand of vacuum cleaners, to describe how an abuse victim trying to assert their own rights by leaving or limiting contact in a dysfunctional relationship, gets “sucked back in” when the perpetrator temporarily exhibits improved or desirable behavior.) That one made me chuckle. I have experienced that, but didn't have a name to call it, other than "battered woman syndrome". I like "being hoovered" so much better. Actually, in my case, given the skill of the individual, I think it was more like a Dyson. I was dysoned, lol!
Too bad there wasn't a rating system we could post with our avatars... a directness meter or something, so others have some idea of where we are coming from...
Hope_Floats
Member
That would be awesome!
I actually saw an office once, in which everyone had gone through a social styles training and had placed symbols on their desk so that whenever someone came into their office, they would have an immediate reminder of which style would be most effective with that person. They said it was incredibly helpful.
