As I've reported the tweedles annual....

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by timer lady, Jan 16, 2012.

  1. timer lady

    timer lady Queen of Hearts

    GAF scores here year after year, many of you know that neither kt or wm have ever reached a GAF of over 45. kt is sitting at a 38 while wm is at 42. The highest wm has achieved in the last 11 years.

    Saying the above, how likely would you be to pursue having the tweedles declared vulnerable adults?

    The "teams" & I have huge concerns for safety & limited success with-o this in place. wm, especially, with his lack of a conscience & inability to put 2 & 2 together scares the bejeebers out of me. I don't want him out on an unsuspecting public.

    kt terrifies me in a whole different way.

    I'm attempting to get the whys, wherefores, & hows in place; my (to my latest knowledge) involvement will be limited to none for wm. kt I may have a more hands on approach yet I will not be here guardian, which may put a bit of a crimp in moving forward.

    Thoughts.....feelings.....suggestions; any & all would be appreciated.
  2. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    I'd pursue it.

    With everything else - with wm you are protecting the public, kt from herself. The fact is, with scores like that... You're right to be afraid.

  3. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    I'd pursue it.

    You've done everything in your power to keep the Tweedles safe over the years; this seems to me to be the next logical step.

    Many, many hugs, Linda.
  4. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    As I am sure you know, Linda. I just don't have enough knowledge to comment with intelligence. One thing I absolutely know is that you have literally given your life to the kids...they have had every opportunity available...and I so admire you. I'm sure that your decision will be the right one. As always I send my most caring supportive thoughts your way. Hugs. DDD
  5. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I think I would definitely pursue it. Sending gentle hugs your way.
  6. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    I'd pursue it. They need it, you need it for them, otherwise no one will have peace.
  7. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    Linda - hugs to you. Been thinking about you, wondering how things are in tweedle land.

    I took a *very* brief stroll through MN regs re: vulnerable adults. Nothing jumped out at me in terms of if this would mandate a supervised living situation and/or other protections, nor did I see anything about what recourse the tweedles would have if they decided to fight it (though heaven knows, you have more than adequate documentation to substantiate the request).

    I guess I'm just wondering if having them declared as VA would do anything in practical terms for them. When we considered guardianship of thank you, we ultimately decided against it because even with guardianship, he would still have the right of self-determination. We would not have been able to dictate safe housing, employment or vocational activities, supervision, nor tx - we would've just gotten the phone calls when things hit the fan, and been responsible for his finances. No thank you. And in looking at supervised living situations for him, it was solely dependent on his cooperation and compliance. If he didn't want to be there, *they* certainly didn't want him there and wouldn't force the issue. And no one in the system gave a darn where he went if he wasn't there. Not their problem.

    The thought of giving a state agency oversight of my kid makes me slightly nauseated. I don't trust 'em to do the right thing - takes too much time and money. But... the flip side of the coin is either continued parental involvement (again, no thank you) or letting them sink or swim, which makes me as ill as state oversight. I don't know, hon... it's a real dilemma.

    I think probably you should go for it - my only concern would be for you. What do you see as the benefits of VA status for the kids, and are those realistic expectations? What happens when kt and wm say they don't need/want services? Are case managers truly actively involved, or do they only stay involved with- clients who bother to show up?

    I guess I'm assuming that both kidlets, like thank you, are going to balk at "services" post 18. Does MN have programs that will actually protect the tweedles, whether they want it or not? Will MN be proactive to prevent situations, or do they operate more reactively?

    Blech... see-sawing here, but only because I'm to the point of why bother applying for state services/statuses if they don't actually exist in practical terms. on the other hand... even if MN operates on a client-driven basis (tweedles would have to show up for services), it might be worthwhile to do so that there's documentation that these are truly vulnerable adults should they ever come into contact with- the system (again, assuming that both kids are going to refuse help at least initially).

    Or maybe, on the bright side (uncharacteristic of me as it is ;) ), MN actually *would* supervise the kids, make sure that they are in safe housing and are getting vocational training or whatever is appropriate, in which case there's no question in my mind - you should have them declared VA.

    Age 18 is a bear. So hard to know what is the right course, especially since our kids are lagging so far behind typical 18-year-olds. Will real-life experience knock some sense into them, or are they never going to get it?

    As always, follow your gut. It's done an outstanding job thus far.

    Many many hugs to you.
  8. hearts and roses

    hearts and roses Mind Reader

    I think slsh gave you a lot of food for thought. I don't have enough experience to make a suggestion, other than to go with your gut. Sending hugs and keeping you in my thoughts and prayers always.
  9. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Weird. I was just thinking about you today and was wrestling with myself about giving you a call to see how things are going. Thank you so much for posting. It'll save me a phone call. LOL

    Go for it. The county will be responsible to provide services to meet their needs and even if you are not guardian (I would push for state guardianship), you are involved in everything as an interested family member. After having exactly this kind of caseload in a county close to you, I know that if they get a good case worker, they will be fine. There ARE still some of those out there and I will hope, pray, rattle, and pretzel that one is assigned to the Tweedles. I think it is a wise move on your part for their sakes and for yours. The case worker gets the burden and you set your level of involvement.

    I WHOLE-HEARTEDLY agree with DDD's sentiments. You have given everything, and then some more, to give them what they've needed. It is time for you now. Let someone else "worry" about them.
  10. timer lady

    timer lady Queen of Hearts

    The team is actively searching for assisted living apartments for wm; not as much kt. Saying that, if kt & wm continue their schooling (as neither has the credits or can pass the test for graduating) they will continue to be on the CADI waiver until they are 21 when they will have to reapply.

    At 18, our beloved mental health case manager (whom we've worked with since the tweedles were 8) will have to bow out of the picture as he's with children's mental health. So that will be the big unknown.

    I will not be taking on guardianship for either kt or wm.

    Thanks for all the wisdom & responses. It's been a long haul ~ hard to believe kt & wm will be hitting 18 in just 6 months, isn't it?
  11. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Here's hoping the new case manager has a "clue" and/or is willing to follow what the current case manager has been doing. Praying, pretzeling and rattling that this will be the case.
  12. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I read this the day you posted and wanted to take some time to think about it. I don't know if I know enough about what being a vulnerable adult entails - who says you are, how you fight it if you object, what it means in terms of your rights and freedoms.

    In wm's case I wonder about what would happen when he tests his "toughness" out in the world against all the other people and what they think "tough" is. Guys do the stuff that doesn't make sense to women that my dad calls chest thumping and woofing. Chest thumping is doing something to try to prove you are the strongest hopefully with-o actually fighting. Woofing is all the stuff they say about how tough they are what they are going to do to you and all that stuff my mom calls "macho guy-stupid" or "macho GS" (She came up with that term for gfgbro when she didn't want to outright say BS but it was close and she was trying to show us that you don't have to cuss to express things colorfully.)

    I have a feeling that wm might start with the woofing or chest-thumping and end up either snapping or being goaded into a situation wheere someone got seriously hurt. That would be bad for him on so many levels that it scares me. I am also scared of what his idea of dating behavior might be. I don't know what it is, but I have the impression that it probably isn't healthy for either party. That can also get you into huge trouble.

    I can very much see wm just losing it and hurting someone badly and thus hurting himself in the process. If making him a VA will help him avoid this, then I would support it. Especially on the condition that you are NOT his guardian. Your health and life must come first and it could end up being dangerous if you said no to something and he got very upset. Would having him be a VA mean that there would be some help available for your future visits with him? Given the history and his behavior on the family trip, I do worry that if he is on his own then you might end up in a risky situation where he just showed up or somehow got in when you were gone. I am a worrywart, but if at some point he sees you as the root of his problem then hopefully being a VA might mean that there was some supervision for when you did spend time together, f that is even possible.

    For kt, I think she NEEDS to be a VA. The chances that some predator will find her and get her into some type of illegal and/or unhealthy behavior seems very very high if she does not have someone who can look out for her best interests. Whomever is the case manager or whatever needs to understand this dynamic and that is something kt has been manipulated into in the past. I fear what people will do to her and will make her do if/when she is "on her own". Of course that supposed there is someone to "be there". I hope there is.

    Under NO circumstances should you be their guardian. Interested relative, yes. Mom? Heck YES! But not guardian. They need someone they can blame, and someone who can say NO and then tolerate all the fallout that comes. You have done enough. Not being guardian doesn't mean not being Mom or not loving them. It simply means passing the torch and being part of the booster club instead of the coach and wardrobe person and everything else.

    18 is a scary number, in my opinion.
  13. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I read this the day you posted this too and then thought to myself that I needed to do more research before I posted. Im still

    I went and got the definition of a Vulnerable Adult:
    Has a physical or sensory disability

    • Is physically frail or has a chronic illness
    • Has a mental illness or dementia
    • Has a learning disability
    • Is old and frail
    • Misuses drugs and/or alcohol
    • Has social or emotional problems
    • Exhibits challenging behavior
    Under those definitions I meet the criteria!!!!! But I still couldnt exactly find anything that said what this does for a person other than help keep a person safe if someone is taking advantage of the VA person. Not if the VA person is trying to take advantage of someone else. There has to be some sort of group homes though.
  14. SearchingForRainbows

    SearchingForRainbows Active Member


    "Under NO circumstances should you be their guardian. Interested relative, yes. Mom? Heck YES! But not guardian. They need someone they can blame, and someone who can say NO and then tolerate all the fallout that comes. You have done enough. Not being guardian doesn't mean not being Mom or not loving them. It simply means passing the torch and being part of the booster club instead of the coach and wardrobe person and everything else.

    18 is a scary number, in my opinion."

    I love the way Susiestar said this! I totally agree with her. You have done everything humanly possible for kt and wm.

    Sending many caring thoughts and lots of hugs your way... SFR
  15. timer lady

    timer lady Queen of Hearts

    Ladies, you are the best. I'm struggling with varying issues since the TIA in November & forget to get back on here to respond to what I have posted ~ sorry I'm so late.

    I have a very intense mtg coming up for wm this Friday. The entire team (including psychiatrist) will be taking part as wm is regressing horribly over the last month or so. Admittedly, the anniversary of my late husband's death was a few weeks back yet therapist doesn't seem to think that plays a major part in the picture. He's bumping into "normal" 17 y/o situations & responsibilities & simply cannot manage/cope. Instead he gets defensive & has recently become physically & verbally aggressive outside of the home setting as well as in his foster home.

    Well, time moves forward & so shall I.
  16. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Thanks for the update. I am glad the team is meeting. It sounds like it is very much needed. This must be a very scary time for wm. I remember how scary being 17 was for me - I went away to college at age 17. So much "freedom" and responsibility and consequences and pitfalls and pratfalls and predators and such a great big world that is opening up for you. If it was that scary for me, it must seem more so to wm. I hope that he will have help and supports as long as he will accept them - and that he will accept them as long as they are available.

    (((((hugs))))) I hope things are getting better for you after the TIA.
  17. SearchingForRainbows

    SearchingForRainbows Active Member

    The teen years are tough enough for "typical" kids, much, much harder for our GsFGs'. Sorry wm is so out of control but glad there is meeting scheduled for this week. Hope the meeting is a productive one!!

    As always, keeping you close in my thoughts... SFR