Asperberger's diagnosis criteria?

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
Yes, this neuro has a psychiatric background, as well, and specializes in this field. That's why it takes so long to get in to see him... it's not like this type of doctor comes a dime a dozen.

Thanks so much for the info and input. It really helps.
 

Marguerite

Active Member
On the topic of whether to involve the school or not; whether to get him evaluated through the education system or not -

Doing it through the education system is cheaper, at least for us. The problem is, in a lot of cases - it's not in their interests to identify the more subtle problems because then they'd have to do something. They will identify BIG issues but they tend to ignore major variations in sub-scores. These wide variations are key pointers to gifted-learning disabled, and the school, if it identifies this, has to do TWO things - it has to deal with the giftedness, and it has to also deal with the learning difficulties. It's far easier for them to simply average out the sub-scores and tell you, "Your child has an IQ of 110, he's really doing very well in at least some of his subjects like maths & science. And we thought his English mark was a bit low compared to maths & science, but not for someone with only 110. He's just not as gifted as you thought."
This actually happened to difficult child 1 & difficult child 3, as well as easy child 2/difficult child 2. because they'd all been previously evaluated privately, I was able to ask to see the sub-scores (I was not permitted to have a copy, although the friendly psychiatrist got me a copy in difficult child 1's case). I asked the obvious question - "This kid previously scored much higher in a private assessment. How could he/she drop over 30 IQ points?"
This was an unanswerable question, because the private assessment had also been more thorough than the school one.
difficult child 1's first assessment done at school - he failed. He scored below 100 because he never completed the test, but it was scored as if he had. The school counsellor then reamed ME out because he was clearly achieving beyond what you would expect for a kid with a below 100 IQ, so I was clearly pressuring my son to achieve and was therefore an abusive parent.
difficult child 3's first assessment - HE failed it too. He was 4, non-verbal (slightly verbal) with poor receptive language as well. The test was given to him by someone verbally asking him questions. He was unable to comply. He had (and still has) problems handling a pencil, so they failed him on maze completion, even though he could do it at home on the computer, because his pencil went over the line (not an error, just poor pencil control, you could see where he was heading). They told me he was "borderline" (the new word for 'retarded'). I asked them, "How come he can read aloud, understand better if it's written down, and can read sheet music and play it on the piano?" If they had been able to give him a written test he would have done much better.
Both boys have since tested much higher. It's been hard to test difficult child 1, but we think he's about 135. We KNOW difficult child 3 is about 145, minimum.
After a score of about 140, depending on the test itself, the numbers become meaningless.
The more basic the assessment, the bigger are the error bars. It's like looking through a light microscope at a bit of plankton. A kiddie's toy microscope is rough, the lenses aren't as highly polished or as accurate; the best magnification you can get on the more expensive kjd's microscope is 300x, and then you need a strong light source to see anything. So if you draw what you see, it's only going to be a rough sketch.
A bigger, more powerful and highly tuned microscope in the hands of an expert - you will see so much more detail. You can not only sketch more accurate detail you can take some amazing photographs. At the same 300x you see so much more. The lenses have less aberration; the light source is stronger and more precise to the task; it's a better field. But even better, you can go up in power really easily. You can go to 3000x with expert assistance.
And if that's not enough - you go to a BIG expert and a scanning electron microscope.
Each extra degree of accuracy costs more. I remember reading in "Andromeda Strain" by Michael Crichton (he may have been quoting someone else) - "Increasing vision is increasingly expensive." The same applies to our kids being assessed. The more detail and thoroughness you want, the more time it takes and the more expertise is required to not only administer the test, but also to analyse it.

But a really high score or a really low score - the IQ tests are simply not designed for this. A kid with a lot of learning problems - ditto. IQ tests were developed to determine subtle differences between otherwise apparently normal white, English-speaking Western kids. They did not include Downs Syndrome kids in the initial stats, for example. As a result, these tests do have their limitations when applied to subjects whose characteristics are well outside the original data collection group. Hence - extremely high results or extremely low results are a mis-estimate. This applies to the sub-scores, not the overall averaged score. An exceptionally high score is often an underestimate. it's also an indication that for that subject in that test, the testing procedure was simply unable to measure accurately.

Bear this in mind. Schools, in my experience, are not equipped to take this into account. This could be a difference between Australian schools and other schools, but it does stand to reason that if the body doing the testing also has to pay for the support required as a finding of the test, they will be encouraged in some cases to not make findings that will lead to expenditure.

As for labelling a child as having a problem - trust me, the kids know even if the school doesn't. Kids are expert at noticing someone who's different. Add in poor social skills in the kid who is different, and you generally have - TARGET. Giving that target an explanatory label can be their saving grace.
I've seen difficult child 3 bullied and picked on in an environment away from home. it's only happened once away from home; it happens a lot close to home. But away from home, the other kids came up to me to 'dob' on how rude difficult child 3 had been, and I told them, "he's autistic. He doesn't understand the way you're trying to play."
Their faces almost went white. They had been treating him like they would any other kid their age, with the usual teasing,jostling and gentle bullying, expecting him to respond in kind. Instead, he had become angry because he's never coped with that sort of behaviour. Their demeanour changed instantly and we had no more trouble with them. They tried to be kind to difficult child 3 but he had completely withdrawn by then and wouldn't speak to them.
They simply hadn't understood and (of course) didn't have the social skills themselves to ask themselves, "Why is this kid behaving differently?" They had been judging him by their own standards (which is what people do) because they did not have the benefit of the added knowledge.

So, my recommendation - if you think there is an unidentified problem and you have some sort of inkling, I would organise private testing in that specialty (such as Occupational Therapist (OT), or speech). Th results may reassure you, or they may point to a need for further, discreet testing. It's then your choice as to whether to share that information. personally, I would, but it really does depend on your estimate of how the school will handle it and respond.
The consensus on this site is to NOT allow a blanket access between the school and your child's specialists, but to supply the school with reports as and when they become available. This means that a school suddenly becoming hostile (it happens) can't manipulate a situation or the therapist to give them ammunition to use against your child or yourself. It's generally not the school as a whole, it's one staff member in a position of power. A new principal; a new counsellor; someone previously supportive who's had enough and wants your child to change schools. Be cautious, just in case. But also be open with communication as much as possible, for as long as possible. I know it sounds paradoxic, but keep reading this site, you will get a better understanding of the tightrope we often have to walk.

Basically, where possible we support the school but always remember - our child has the highest priority.

Marg
 

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
Arrrrgh! Since when is pressuring a child to achieve, abusive? And what's their definition of pressure?

We did private testing and there were several things that caught my attention, confused me, and that I disagreed with. One question they asked: "What is poetry?" The psychiatric said Chris tapped his chin and looked pensive and fretted a bit, saying, "I should know this one... my mom is an artist and she writes poetry." So his response was, "She paints pictures with words."
Brilliant!
The dr. marked him wrong.
Grrr.

I took the results to our independent psychiatric, because the place where we had Chris tested also had a school, and they were very pushy, wanting us to sign up right away. Our psychiatric had no agenda or ties so was free to say what he wished.

He went over the tests and showed me which ones were valuable for school, which ones valuable for psychiatric, and which tests were basically "dog and pony shows." I could have kissed him!
 

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
Me: A former HS teacher who once had life under control. Now an at-home mom who can't even control the Legos on the living room floor.

I LOVE this description! :laugh:
 

Liahona

Active Member
I keep difficult child 1's teacher up to date on what he is going through because I'm expecting him to lose it some point at school. Right now he is doing great and I hope he stays that way. If he doesn't though the ground work is laid for supports to be put in place quickly and effectly.
 

Marguerite

Active Member
On keeping in touch - we used a communication book (not needed now he is home all the time). The book travelled in difficult child 3's school bag and we would write in it anything we felt would enlighten or help the teacher and they would write back mentioning any problems (or good things too). It helped a lot to be able to put the puzzle pieces together. Sometimes a teacher's apparently random observations would suddenly make sense to us because we had the home picture as well to guide us. Or if his behaviour was atrocious at home, much worse than usual, and we mentioned this, the teacher might write, "You say he's been worse at home since Tuesday afternoon - well he did have a loud argument in the school playground at Tuesday lunchtime and has been banned from playing on the climbing frame as a result. Maybe that's it."
Putting this together with careful questioning of difficult child 3 at home, might give the answer that he doesn't understand why he's been banned from the climbing frame (which means he's learning nothing from the punishment) and therefore the teacher need to be aware that the climbing frame problem is highly likely to recur.

Little things like this will quickly escalate if you don't keep on top of them. And the communication book helped both school and home to stay on top of it all.

An important point - both teacher and parent have to be the ones to use the book and put it back in his bag. it is not the child's job to do this. it's far more important to have the book where it should be, than to use the book as a tool to teach the child to be responsible. Teach him to be responsible about his pencil case, instead. Anything but the book. For us, it was the times that the book went missing that the wheels fell off our coping systems at school and at home.

ANY child who is sufficiently difficult child would benefit from the use of a communication book. And the ones who benefit the most - those who have to handle the child - family and school. Others also benefit - the doctor, the babysitter, the extended family.

Marg
 

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
Little things like this will quickly escalate if you don't keep on top of them. And the communication book helped both school and home to stay on top of it all.

Absolutely. We use email for the same purpose. Sometimes it's about diet--i.e, since wheat is his trigger, I'll warn the teacher that difficult child had toast for breakfast, or sometimes it will be that he hasn't had enough sleep. Usually she's after me to sign a permission slip that disappeared into the universe somewhere, LOL!
 
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