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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 223346" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Yup. Sounds like it to me. Of course, we can't diagnose our kids for ourselves, you need a suitable professional to do that, but if I were buying lottery tickets, I'd put big bucks on this one.</p><p></p><p>Mild Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) or moderate Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) - you might do the test again in a few years time and find the score slightly different. No worries.</p><p></p><p>The thing we often forget - we all are part of the spectrum of humanity. What is "normal" anyway? If you go back through old medical texts from 100 years ago you will find some very odd conditions such as hysteria (listed in my herbal under "Diseases of Women") and nocturnal emission (listed under "Urogenitary Diseases"). There are other things listed as "Diseases" which are now considered normal occurrences.</p><p></p><p>My point is, a lot of what you describe and what we experience with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids, is normal at some stage of a child's development. The issue here is a matter of extremes, both in degree and for how long it continues. It DOES change as they get older. You will have noticed a section for "resolved" in the questionnaire. These days we tick a lot more "resolved" boxes than we used to and as a result, difficult child 3's Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) score is lower.</p><p></p><p>Most of what you describe, if not all, is very familiar to me. </p><p></p><p><em>*Cuddles with me/afraid of strangers</em></p><p><em><em><em><span style="color: DarkOrchid">The cuddling me especially when other people are around - that was difficult child 1, rather than difficult child 3.</span></em></em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>*will look at you but looks away a lot when you are talking to him esp. when i am trying to correct him</em></p><p><em><em><span style="color: DarkOrchid">Sometimes they need to do this in order to concentrate better on what you are saying. It varies from kid to kid, but often they find the visual input plus auditory input just too much overall. Being stressed reduces their ability to cope, and this means that a child who MAY be able to make eye contact while listening to you, needs to look away in order to concentrate better on what you're saying.</span></em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>*will run away in store if not in cart</em></p><p><em><em><span style="color: DarkOrchid">This may not be running away, so much as getting distracted or seeing something he wants to look at. Interesting when you say he likes to play shop and then lines up his toys. This would fit with mild Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), in that he is playing an imagination game (unusual) but using it primarily as an excuse to line up toys (which is what Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids love to do)</span></em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>*Stays on the same subject even if you are trying to change it(he was stuck on spongebob talking w the psychiatric)</em></p><p><em><em><span style="color: DarkOrchid">Oh yes! I know this one! It's perseveration, being obsesed with a particular topic. I'm sorry, but this one is particularly difficult to shift and will take a lot more brain maturity for him to be able to politely listen to topics he's not interested in. The rules of conversation and changing topic are quite socially advanced and do not come naturally. You need to take time over years and patiently instruct him.</span></em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>*speaks well and will pick up phrases heard anywhere</em></p><p><em><em><span style="color: DarkOrchid">This is part of a very advanced coping strategy. He sounds a lot like difficult child 3 in that he craves to be 'normal' (which means he feels that he isn't, even if he doesn't know why he feels different). Part of being 'normal' is using the same terms, phrases etc. All kids do this to a certain extent. The really bright ones take very little exposure/repetition before they've "got it". Memorising these phrases is the first step. Using these phrases is the second step. Using them appropriately is the third.</span></em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>*he doesnt identify anyone as his "friend"</em></p><p><em><em><span style="color: DarkOrchid">That is sad, but not unusual. The other possibility is a kid who identifiesEVERYONE as his friend. What used to happen with difficult child 3 at school - kids would beat him up, then just as difficult child 3 was going to tell the teacher what happened, these kids would suddenly say to difficult child 3, "I want Occupational Therapist (OT) be yourfriend." And difficult child 3 would swallow this line and refuse to tell the teacher who hit him, because they were now friends. Of course, the 'friendship' only lasted long enough for the teacher to decide not to intervene. difficult child 3 did learn in time that such kids are lying, but as he has learnt to not lie (he is so bad at it, he always got caught) then he can't understand kids who DO lie.</span></em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>*will initiate some play but prefers to play by himself</em></p><p><em><em><span style="color: DarkOrchid">It's safer to play by yourself, especially when friends don't understand the rules as well as you do.</span></em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>*obsession with vaccuum at around 18mo-3 1/2</em></p><p><em><em><span style="color: DarkOrchid">Obsession with all sorts of things, often quite unusual things, is common in Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD).</span></em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>*gets "stuck" sometimes when trying to say a sentence so he starts over at the beginning every time</em></p><p><em><em><span style="color: DarkOrchid">difficult child 3 does this. So does his father. even easy child 2/difficult child 2 does it a bit. It's called "speech dysfluency" and stammering is another form of speech dysfluency. Interestingly, difficult child 3 does it with his piano playing too - he would get stuck at a point in the music and keep playing the same note until he got unstuck; or instead, go back to the beginning of the musical 'phrase' and start over. And make the same mistake and go back. Over and over.</span></em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>*could identify some shapes, letters, numbers, his name</em></p><p><em><em><span style="color: DarkOrchid">That sounds like possibly hyperlexia. My own feeling on this is that hyperlexia is one manifestation of high-functioning autism (I include Asperger's under that umbrella)</span></em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>*he could not draw any of these onto paper ~ all shapes looked the same</em></p><p><em><em><span style="color: DarkOrchid">Check his joints, especially his hands. What sort of pencil grip does he have? Is it what is called the immature, or palmar grasp? In other words, does he grip the pencil as if it were a rod in his hand? Or does he hold it in the more mature pincer grip, using thumb and two fingers? How does he hold his spoon? A fork? A knife? Encourage him to use a pincer grip then look at the tips of his fingers. Do they bend back past the 180 degrees? If so, then he will have poor control and also it probably gets very painful very quickly, as soon as he tries to exert any force (as in cutting his food, or writing/drawing). An Occupational Therapy assessment would then be a good idea. There are things you can do to help him. First one - teach him how to use a computer keyboard. They're never too young. difficult child 3 was using a computer before he was 12 months old. Second - consider teaching him piano, which requires him to learn to curl his fingers inwards at the tips. It can help overcome some amount of hypermobility.</span></em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>*can dress himself but needs help with coat & small buttons</em></p><p><em><em><span style="color: DarkOrchid">see above answer re possible hypermobility. There appears to be a subset of high-functioning autistics and Aspies who have hypermobile joints. A number of difficult child 3's drama classmates have hypermobility as well as some form of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD).</span></em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>*rages are improved with gluten free/low sugar diet</em></p><p><em><em><span style="color: DarkOrchid">Not unusual. You need to consider other possibilities, including what else he could be getting along with the sugar. Caffeine, for example, which turned out to be the problem for my three younger kids.</span></em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>*can go into a rage for an hour or more esp. if he is tired</em></p><p><em><em><span style="color: DarkOrchid">That's normal for most kids, worse for Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids because they have to concentrate so hard in order to cope, that as soon as ANYTHING interferes with their ability to cope, their frustration goes trough the roof. the raging is generally due to frustration. See Ross Greene's "Explosive Child" book for some really good skills and understanding. It's brilliant for this.</span></em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>*can not get him to sleep at night easily</em></p><p><em><em><span style="color: DarkOrchid">Is he on any medications? Stimulants can make this worse, it could indicate a need for a lower dose. If he's not on stims yet but they have been suggested, don't panic. They may not make him any worse (didn't with mine). In fact, what CAN happen, is stims can make it possible for them to focus better (if they have an ADHD component to their Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) which does happen). When the focus better, they expend a lot of mental energy on something satisfying to them but they DO find themselves getting cranky and irritable, so often they sleep more. Not always, though. But you do have to watch both physical fatigue and mental fatigue, and to recognise that your child may be getting mentally fatigued for things that you find very easy to handle. They're not necessarily easy for him.</span></em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>*does become violent while raging and his eyes glass over</em></p><p><em><em><span style="color: DarkOrchid">This is a tricky one. Becoming violent when raging - yep, that is normal. "Eyes glassing over" - that can happen with extreme rage, it can happen with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids who "lose it" but it is VERY subjective. Often when we fear our own kids, we add our own fears to what we see. It could be nothing more than a kid who is so angry, he has 'forgotten' to look away, his rage is overcoming his usual reticence about eye contact. And yes, they do get that angry. Try to remember back to your own childhood, dredge up as many memories as you can. Remember how you felt on a bad day; remember how you felt on a good day. Was there ever a time when you felt as bad as he does? Why? And looking back, does it all seem so silly now? Or do you still remember the hurt and betrayal? Or can you see it with both sets of eyes - the child you were and the adult you now are?</span></em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>*will repeat "I want a snack" over and over until he gets one (also does this with other things) like a broken record</em></p><p><em><span style="color: DarkOrchid">Part of the reason he does this, is because it works. The other reason he does this, is because for him at the moment, it's the easiest way. he is prepared to put up with the negative consequences, because he really doesn't know any other way well enough. You need to rehearse him in the right way to request something, which also includes either waiting until you are ready, or learning to be talked through getting it for himself. You need to not get angry, you need to stay calm and say to him (repeatedly, if necessary), "I am busy doing X now, I will get it for you when I am finished. That will be in Y minutes." Encourage him to look at the clock or to use a timer. A little sand egg timer is good for this - assuming he won't keep playing with it to watch the sand fall. Or you could both make a sand timer, using drink bottles glued together or disposable takeaway plastic food containers.</span></em></p><p></p><p>About those disposable takeaway food containers, here is a great craft project for you to do with/for your Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) child. You get a stack of these containers with matching lids. Use round containers if you can, they're easier for this. You then get some coins and arrange every type of coin in your currency, from smallest to largest. Draw around these coins on the lids, except for the largest. You need one container plus lid for each coin type. </p><p></p><p>Now cut holes through the lids to match the coins (except for the largest coin). Cut off the bases of the containers. Now arrange these containers, with lids, in order of smallest to largest holes in lids. Put smallest on the bottom. Tape the containers together so they form one cylinder.</p><p>Now in the top lid (not cut yet) you make a slit big enough for ALL coins to go in. Your top container should be your biggest one.</p><p></p><p>Now to use this - it's a Coin Sorter - you pour ALL your change into the top container, hold the entire assembly carefully, and shake. All the coins should sort themselves out and fall through to the correct level. You should be able to then take them apart and collect your sorted coins. To take them apart safely - tip it onto its side carefully.</p><p></p><p>Maybe play with the design until you find ways to make this work the way you want it to. You could do it by leaving the bases on, cutting the coin holes in the bases and not bothering about any lids but the top one. Then nest the containers, just make sure you have enough room between them for the coins.</p><p></p><p>If you have a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kid, they will love this. If your child is high-functioning, he will probably play with the design himself to get it how he wants. Encourage this inventiveness and creativity; this is where your child's career lies, in lateral thinking, creativity, invention and detail. </p><p></p><p>You may as well start now to go with the flow. </p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 223346, member: 1991"] Yup. Sounds like it to me. Of course, we can't diagnose our kids for ourselves, you need a suitable professional to do that, but if I were buying lottery tickets, I'd put big bucks on this one. Mild Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) or moderate Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) - you might do the test again in a few years time and find the score slightly different. No worries. The thing we often forget - we all are part of the spectrum of humanity. What is "normal" anyway? If you go back through old medical texts from 100 years ago you will find some very odd conditions such as hysteria (listed in my herbal under "Diseases of Women") and nocturnal emission (listed under "Urogenitary Diseases"). There are other things listed as "Diseases" which are now considered normal occurrences. My point is, a lot of what you describe and what we experience with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids, is normal at some stage of a child's development. The issue here is a matter of extremes, both in degree and for how long it continues. It DOES change as they get older. You will have noticed a section for "resolved" in the questionnaire. These days we tick a lot more "resolved" boxes than we used to and as a result, difficult child 3's Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) score is lower. Most of what you describe, if not all, is very familiar to me. [I]*Cuddles with me/afraid of strangers [I][I][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]The cuddling me especially when other people are around - that was difficult child 1, rather than difficult child 3.[/COLOR][/I][/I] *will look at you but looks away a lot when you are talking to him esp. when i am trying to correct him [I][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]Sometimes they need to do this in order to concentrate better on what you are saying. It varies from kid to kid, but often they find the visual input plus auditory input just too much overall. Being stressed reduces their ability to cope, and this means that a child who MAY be able to make eye contact while listening to you, needs to look away in order to concentrate better on what you're saying.[/COLOR][/I] *will run away in store if not in cart [I][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]This may not be running away, so much as getting distracted or seeing something he wants to look at. Interesting when you say he likes to play shop and then lines up his toys. This would fit with mild Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), in that he is playing an imagination game (unusual) but using it primarily as an excuse to line up toys (which is what Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids love to do)[/COLOR][/I] *Stays on the same subject even if you are trying to change it(he was stuck on spongebob talking w the psychiatric) [I][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]Oh yes! I know this one! It's perseveration, being obsesed with a particular topic. I'm sorry, but this one is particularly difficult to shift and will take a lot more brain maturity for him to be able to politely listen to topics he's not interested in. The rules of conversation and changing topic are quite socially advanced and do not come naturally. You need to take time over years and patiently instruct him.[/COLOR][/I] *speaks well and will pick up phrases heard anywhere [I][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]This is part of a very advanced coping strategy. He sounds a lot like difficult child 3 in that he craves to be 'normal' (which means he feels that he isn't, even if he doesn't know why he feels different). Part of being 'normal' is using the same terms, phrases etc. All kids do this to a certain extent. The really bright ones take very little exposure/repetition before they've "got it". Memorising these phrases is the first step. Using these phrases is the second step. Using them appropriately is the third.[/COLOR][/I] *he doesnt identify anyone as his "friend" [I][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]That is sad, but not unusual. The other possibility is a kid who identifiesEVERYONE as his friend. What used to happen with difficult child 3 at school - kids would beat him up, then just as difficult child 3 was going to tell the teacher what happened, these kids would suddenly say to difficult child 3, "I want Occupational Therapist (OT) be yourfriend." And difficult child 3 would swallow this line and refuse to tell the teacher who hit him, because they were now friends. Of course, the 'friendship' only lasted long enough for the teacher to decide not to intervene. difficult child 3 did learn in time that such kids are lying, but as he has learnt to not lie (he is so bad at it, he always got caught) then he can't understand kids who DO lie.[/COLOR][/I] *will initiate some play but prefers to play by himself [I][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]It's safer to play by yourself, especially when friends don't understand the rules as well as you do.[/COLOR][/I] *obsession with vaccuum at around 18mo-3 1/2 [I][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]Obsession with all sorts of things, often quite unusual things, is common in Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD).[/COLOR][/I] *gets "stuck" sometimes when trying to say a sentence so he starts over at the beginning every time [I][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]difficult child 3 does this. So does his father. even easy child 2/difficult child 2 does it a bit. It's called "speech dysfluency" and stammering is another form of speech dysfluency. Interestingly, difficult child 3 does it with his piano playing too - he would get stuck at a point in the music and keep playing the same note until he got unstuck; or instead, go back to the beginning of the musical 'phrase' and start over. And make the same mistake and go back. Over and over.[/COLOR][/I] *could identify some shapes, letters, numbers, his name [I][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]That sounds like possibly hyperlexia. My own feeling on this is that hyperlexia is one manifestation of high-functioning autism (I include Asperger's under that umbrella)[/COLOR][/I] *he could not draw any of these onto paper ~ all shapes looked the same [I][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]Check his joints, especially his hands. What sort of pencil grip does he have? Is it what is called the immature, or palmar grasp? In other words, does he grip the pencil as if it were a rod in his hand? Or does he hold it in the more mature pincer grip, using thumb and two fingers? How does he hold his spoon? A fork? A knife? Encourage him to use a pincer grip then look at the tips of his fingers. Do they bend back past the 180 degrees? If so, then he will have poor control and also it probably gets very painful very quickly, as soon as he tries to exert any force (as in cutting his food, or writing/drawing). An Occupational Therapy assessment would then be a good idea. There are things you can do to help him. First one - teach him how to use a computer keyboard. They're never too young. difficult child 3 was using a computer before he was 12 months old. Second - consider teaching him piano, which requires him to learn to curl his fingers inwards at the tips. It can help overcome some amount of hypermobility.[/COLOR][/I] *can dress himself but needs help with coat & small buttons [I][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]see above answer re possible hypermobility. There appears to be a subset of high-functioning autistics and Aspies who have hypermobile joints. A number of difficult child 3's drama classmates have hypermobility as well as some form of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD).[/COLOR][/I] *rages are improved with gluten free/low sugar diet [I][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]Not unusual. You need to consider other possibilities, including what else he could be getting along with the sugar. Caffeine, for example, which turned out to be the problem for my three younger kids.[/COLOR][/I] *can go into a rage for an hour or more esp. if he is tired [I][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]That's normal for most kids, worse for Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids because they have to concentrate so hard in order to cope, that as soon as ANYTHING interferes with their ability to cope, their frustration goes trough the roof. the raging is generally due to frustration. See Ross Greene's "Explosive Child" book for some really good skills and understanding. It's brilliant for this.[/COLOR][/I] *can not get him to sleep at night easily [I][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]Is he on any medications? Stimulants can make this worse, it could indicate a need for a lower dose. If he's not on stims yet but they have been suggested, don't panic. They may not make him any worse (didn't with mine). In fact, what CAN happen, is stims can make it possible for them to focus better (if they have an ADHD component to their Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) which does happen). When the focus better, they expend a lot of mental energy on something satisfying to them but they DO find themselves getting cranky and irritable, so often they sleep more. Not always, though. But you do have to watch both physical fatigue and mental fatigue, and to recognise that your child may be getting mentally fatigued for things that you find very easy to handle. They're not necessarily easy for him.[/COLOR][/I] *does become violent while raging and his eyes glass over [I][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]This is a tricky one. Becoming violent when raging - yep, that is normal. "Eyes glassing over" - that can happen with extreme rage, it can happen with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids who "lose it" but it is VERY subjective. Often when we fear our own kids, we add our own fears to what we see. It could be nothing more than a kid who is so angry, he has 'forgotten' to look away, his rage is overcoming his usual reticence about eye contact. And yes, they do get that angry. Try to remember back to your own childhood, dredge up as many memories as you can. Remember how you felt on a bad day; remember how you felt on a good day. Was there ever a time when you felt as bad as he does? Why? And looking back, does it all seem so silly now? Or do you still remember the hurt and betrayal? Or can you see it with both sets of eyes - the child you were and the adult you now are?[/COLOR][/I] *will repeat "I want a snack" over and over until he gets one (also does this with other things) like a broken record[/I] [I][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]Part of the reason he does this, is because it works. The other reason he does this, is because for him at the moment, it's the easiest way. he is prepared to put up with the negative consequences, because he really doesn't know any other way well enough. You need to rehearse him in the right way to request something, which also includes either waiting until you are ready, or learning to be talked through getting it for himself. You need to not get angry, you need to stay calm and say to him (repeatedly, if necessary), "I am busy doing X now, I will get it for you when I am finished. That will be in Y minutes." Encourage him to look at the clock or to use a timer. A little sand egg timer is good for this - assuming he won't keep playing with it to watch the sand fall. Or you could both make a sand timer, using drink bottles glued together or disposable takeaway plastic food containers.[/COLOR][/I] About those disposable takeaway food containers, here is a great craft project for you to do with/for your Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) child. You get a stack of these containers with matching lids. Use round containers if you can, they're easier for this. You then get some coins and arrange every type of coin in your currency, from smallest to largest. Draw around these coins on the lids, except for the largest. You need one container plus lid for each coin type. Now cut holes through the lids to match the coins (except for the largest coin). Cut off the bases of the containers. Now arrange these containers, with lids, in order of smallest to largest holes in lids. Put smallest on the bottom. Tape the containers together so they form one cylinder. Now in the top lid (not cut yet) you make a slit big enough for ALL coins to go in. Your top container should be your biggest one. Now to use this - it's a Coin Sorter - you pour ALL your change into the top container, hold the entire assembly carefully, and shake. All the coins should sort themselves out and fall through to the correct level. You should be able to then take them apart and collect your sorted coins. To take them apart safely - tip it onto its side carefully. Maybe play with the design until you find ways to make this work the way you want it to. You could do it by leaving the bases on, cutting the coin holes in the bases and not bothering about any lids but the top one. Then nest the containers, just make sure you have enough room between them for the coins. If you have a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kid, they will love this. If your child is high-functioning, he will probably play with the design himself to get it how he wants. Encourage this inventiveness and creativity; this is where your child's career lies, in lateral thinking, creativity, invention and detail. You may as well start now to go with the flow. Marg [/QUOTE]
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