At Home Care vs Hospital....

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Confused, Sep 30, 2014.

  1. Confused

    Confused Active Member

    Im to the point that things are going too slow the several years to slow for a proper diagnose for my son. Son is now always saying he wants to kill us or cops or doctors if they get in the way to help him. He now added hes going to stab me in the neck and wants me dead he will kill me he promises. My daughters flat out refusal to get up and get ready for school and homework... needs a math tutor but refuses to listen when she is sitting there looks away etc... so they dont want to work with her. ..and shes home and I took away her electronics.( shes obsessed with the electronics ALL she does is that) Son is grounded as well from saying what he did.

    Im to the point I want to drive to the hospital and go to the E.R. or the Pysc hospital and beg them to admit them both. Can I do that? My daughter- they may get whats wrong because she wont act different there but my son will sweet talk the pants off them say he never acts that way or says those things Im the one who does it! He can really play it up to others and can take months to see his true self. Why do they hate me so much? Ive protected them against them being around their father when hes drunk and driving, around is druggy friends, put them in the best school and yes, willing to change to make them happy but when I go to register them at the new school they throw a tantrum screaming the wont go they want their current school etc. I love them, care for them, they are my whole life. I told them both Im taking them I dont know what else to do. Its everyday the struggles to get them up for school or even just to the store, they flat out refuse any chores, at least to clean after themselves, tantrum when the word "no" is told, they have no empathy it seems. Oh at rare times they say I love you back or are you ok but I think thats rehearsed.

    I may not work but others dont understand whats itsl ike to raises kids like mine with these mental isues, its beyond two jobs its beyond two kids because it feels like I have several. I love them and will do anything for them but I just need to know, can I just take them there? Wait for several more years of back and fourth doctors I cant. I wont.

    Add my family issues still too!!!!
  2. Confused

    Confused Active Member

    Well I meant others don't understand but you all do.......Grandpa is on phone saying just send them to their dad...... give kids up get rid of them. Their not happy your not happy
  3. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Hi Confused,
    when you said you changed their school to make them happy, but they didn't like it when they had to go, plus, their love of electronics, a light went off for me. Have you had them tested on the autism spectrum? Asperger's?
    Kids like that do not like change or transition.
    Also, they do love you in their own way. As you pointed out, there isn't an outward display of empathy, which is typical on the autism spectrum. I used to have long talks with-my son about whether he loved me, and how his behavior affected me. For a long time, he didn't "get it." I think he does now, especially since he has a girlfriend.
    When one of our dogs died about 10 yrs ago, he looked at the dog's body for a minute, then jumped up and down and said, "Can I got out to play now?"
    You are on the right track by grounding your son for saying he wants to kill you. I'd go one step further: talk to him in a calm moment and tell him that he can say he is really, really mad at you. Even yelling it is permissible. He has to practice. So the next time he says he wants to kill you, stop him and say, "Not allowed. Say you are very mad at me. Or your Xbox gets taken away."
    It sounds utterly ridiculous to "regular" parents but it works.
    Well, with a lot of repetition.
    Since they're already on medications, you've got a doctor. Is it a pediatrician or a psychiatrist? I'd make weekly talk therapy appointments. If they don't go, they lose their electronics for a day.
    You'll have to put up with-yelling and screaming the first time they jump ship but when they learn you mean it, they'll go the next time. :)
    It's a long journey.
    I feel for you, especially having two of them.
    I hope you can take something, as well. Maybe an antianxiety medication or antidepressant just to take the edge off. I'm not trying to push drugs, but I know how awful it is to live every day like that.
  4. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Oh, and to answer your initial question, no, you can't just drop them off at the hospital. They have to be shown as a danger to themselves or others, or totally disconnected from reality. Then it really helps to get a therapist or psychiatrist to call ahead and make sure that there is a room available. You want things to go as smoothly as possible.
  5. Confused

    Confused Active Member

    TerryJ2-well they didnt even get one day at the school because when I went to register them they blew and begged cried to stay where they were. They claim they are happy where their at and I told them be honest you dont like it its ok and you'll go somewhere else. Thats why we took them to register at another school to prove its ok, but they wouldnt go in the school!!! All these years for daughter they said extreme shyness/possible anxiety but shes not on medications. She refuses those too, we tried from her reg pediatrician. She extremely against any pills,liquids or shots, extreme fear. Extremely rare she will give in to liq pain like Ibuprofen for her braces when tightened( extreme anxiety of those too),still no facial expression( well very rare still) I worry about depression but shes doing all the same things except for the absences at school but yet claims shes happy? Of course when homework or tests are due, she doesnt want to go as well as she stays up playing games all night( all electronics are taken away now- but she will read then-and Im still with grandpa at night, may have to make her go down with me at night so I can watch her) Also, she doesnt play or"hang out with her friends, rather be on the electronics. I talked to her old teacher( pre-k ) and she asked me how she was and if I was still looking for a diagnose for her, and I told her you all mentioning in the first place Autism Asbergers and she smiled and said omg Im glad after all these years you said it! I couldn't its against regulations to say what we think might be wrong all we could say is shes shy!!! Yes yes she has that for sure, not depressed and I know and understand because my family member has the EXACT same "

    Im sorry your son reacted that way, my kids too!!! Although depending on whos and which pet it was they may be a little more sad or more into a "funeral for it". My son is on medications by a Pediatric Neurologist, he was trying to find the right does before labeling him with anything else to make sure, but in my heart, with my sons violence, I truly believe Bipolar or similar added to the other issues. Am suppose to be getting a referral for another therapist in the nest couple weeks at next appointment for son. I am taking my sons threats serious and am praying hes all talk but am going to tell the dr. I have to video record him I never got that hidden camera I wanted years back, every times I say were going to get it, we cant or dont. Or things actually calm down.

    Thank you for replying!!!!!!!
  6. dstc_99

    dstc_99 Well-Known Member

    Well considering he made a direct threat to you it is possible you could take him to the ER for that. I have done it with difficult child when she was choking herself. I found out and drove her to the hospital all in one day. I wasn't having it or dealing with the what if's should she actually harm herself.

    You do have the right as a parent to take him there after such a threat and have him evaluated. I am not saying they will keep him for any longer than a few hours. They didn't mine. BUT it will get it on record as something you experienced and give you some background to help you out. Also it may give your difficult child a little more face time with his therapist or psychiatrist so that they are a little more involved in his care.

    As for your daughter regardless of what she wants she needs help. It would be non negotiable in my house. You don't want to take your medications? OK stay in your room for the day. I will drop food off at lunch and dinner and you can sit there. No toys, no makeup, and no cute clothes. Nothing to do but read and write and stare at the walls. School well school is for children who are healthy and can participate. She's not, so call the principal and tell them she refuses to go and wont take her medication.

    Basically taking action to make a change. It may not work. A lot of the things we try dont. But instead of waiting for something to change trying to make the changes happen can feel cathartic.
  7. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Yes, I agree with-dstc, take action to make change. It's not pretty but you have to do it.
    Interesting that her old pre-k teacher agreed with-the autism/Aspie idea.
    And by the way, severe anxiety can be a part of that. It's like the world is coming at them a million miles an hour--lights, sounds, textures--and they can't deal with it.
  8. Confused

    Confused Active Member

    im so hurt when this is all over ill let you all know what happened... im so hurt to hear the words my kids said so in shock for everything I have done for them
  9. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member's not about you. It is everything they have gone through with everyone they have known, including their father. I don't know if they had a chaotic early life or not, but rather than autism or maybe on top of autism they have attachment issues, which manifests a lot like Conduct Disorder. You know the information. I don't. If you're wondering what kids with Conduct Disorder are like vs. autism (remember they can have both), I'll post a couple YouTube videos about each disorder. See if anything rings a bell because they are very different disorders and your children have not really been properly assessed as of yet. A pediatric neurologist and pediatrician do not test for these psychological disorders. Neurologists do things like epilepsy, migraines and brain tumors. Pediatricians do the flu, strep, and basic development. They do not have the extra training it takes to test and diagnose behavioral problems and the why of them...or the correct medication.

    Anyhow, I wish you luck. Here are the videos I promised. Hugs to you and I hope you find your answers soon! And a hosptal stay does not diagnose. It is simply to stabilize and would not be long term. However, DO take action if your children hurt themselves or you. I'd be very worried about the boy who says he wants to kill people all the time. It may just be talk, but I wouldn't want to take that chance...Know what I mean??

    ASpergers here:

    Conduct Disroder here:

  10. Confused

    Confused Active Member

    Ill respond when I can quit crying and read. I thank you all again. My daughter told me if I was going to take her to a hospital she wants to go with her dad. Her dad who she supposedly hates who has argues with me and him because she refuses to see him when he came last time. She locked the door wont talk to him but yet she wants him. This killed me. She refuses to go in again today and asked to be home schooled because she cant all of a sudden learn in the classroom. Not in my house will anyone be home schooled because for one, she will not do any of her work, she wont now, she didnt before its all computer games and tv, shes not mentally able to handle being home schooled nor am I mentally smart to home school nor will I leave her alone. When she pays attention in school she is passing with A & B's classwork and homework, claimed she has friends their and liked it. All of sudden she doesnt? She had big dreams at 16 getting her DL, getting a part time job, then college. Now she doesnt want the school part. Well no school no DL or job. Now if her father allows her to stay home , I know my daughter will never go to college and she is the one who we really thought would make it. Shes mad because I ask her to let me help her clean her hair/skin because wel, she doesnt. Her dad will forcibly drag her in and do it, he has told me this and said it in front of her. But yet Im wrong and hated? Daughter is being pulled out of school today but I wont keep her here with no school. I wanted both kids to make it and not turn out like me a loser. Honestly I had more faith in her then my son because of my sons violence, but I was wrong, I was born to have kids that hate me and that will fail like me. Nice.Proves Im a lousy person

    Son refused to sleep until after 1am this morning because for one he didnt take his sleep pill, two he claims hes upset by being forced to go woth his dad and he doesnt want to go. Well daughter says we hate her and we yell so she will tell daddy that. Well duh, he knows we yell and DONT hate her!!!!!!! After getting beat up from my son over the years, both kids issues and yelling at us, calling us nam,es etc, breaking things( mainly son) yeah, we yelled!!!! Yes I grounded them !!!!!!! So we are the only ones in the world that ever yelled at their kids? So all Dr Phil with his house with parents and kids with the yelling was fake, all the commercials with the guy showing the parent and kids having a screaming match is fake its only us!!! Yes I wish I never yelled, but I did my god if thats the worst I did then I guess Im the most horrible person ever.
  11. Confused

    Confused Active Member

    dstc_99 sorry about your daughter and its hard. I want everything on tape somehow. Daughter I don't know anymore either...I did take away electronics and she went and took it back as I left to care for grandpa.

    Terry_J2- Yeah, when I told her what you all said here, she smile her face showed so much relief and told me about her family member. Yes, I agree with the anxiety, she still has that. Thats the only official diagnose I have from her pediatrician.

    MidwestMom- Thank you, watched them both and omg yes and yes! I don't know if she is into dating yet, she refuses to talk about it but the electronics yes, being alone yes, but does like being around people but doesnt talk much. ( unless its a friend of hers and she talks a little more) Its as if she has to be in a certain mood level to get relaxed and give a lil smile and have a little fun, it does happen but rare.

    Asbergers signs:
    Can't Understand Speech Subtleties- Im questioning this.....
    Unusual Body Language-Lack of facial expressions since pre-k mainly K. Very quite, barely speaks to others but when does very quite same tone. People mainly me, my dad, her brother, a couple friends she has spoken more,,oh and her aunt when she was younger. Wears sweaters at school even when warm out.
    Lack of Empathy-questioning this as well, she hugged me a few times when I was crying years ago... and towards animals she says shes sad they die but no facial expression...
    Difficulty Reading Social Cues- Still going over this...
    Fixation on One Activity-Electronics and books...( ok two)
    Sensory Sensitivities- Does hygiene issues play here? Maybe the feel of water or using soap, teeth etc? Used to love bathing as a preschooler and loved pools up until a few years agao or so.

    Son yes but he hasnt hurt an animal yet.. has threatened to push them over during a tantrum long time ago when he was kicking the table( they were on the table) but hasnt since. In fact says he wants to harm those who harm animals? I been taking all those online tests and looking up meanings etc and my son was yes to all the ODD, to the Conduct Disorder...I copied what he does from a website..
    Aggression to people and animals
    -often bullies, threatens, or intimidates others
    -often initiates physical fights
    -has used a weapon that can cause serious physical harm to others (throws shoes and toys,pencils etc)
    -has been physically cruel to people( used to bite himself and us as well as kicking us- )

    Destruction of property

    • has deliberately destroyed others’ property (other than by fire setting= peels doors, holes in doors and walls,breaks things)
    Deceitfulness or theft
    • often lies to obtain goods or favors or to avoid obligations (i.e., “cons” others)

    Bipolar is still a question in my mind because he can be so sweet and loving, saying he will take care of me when Im old and how people can be so mean, laughing, playing, eating and out of nowhere in a slpit second he can turn mean, cold hates everyone we all are wrong then the he wishes we were dead comes in. Of course when he gets told NO even in the nicest way, or something upsets him that he will fly into his other world he gets into as mentioned. I thought Bipolar was happy and sad but the sad part its doesnt seems as hes sad just mad. I was told the sad part can be the aggression he shows? He has multiple symptoms Occupational Therapist (OT) this as well... Well if they are here I have Dr appointment coming up...
  12. 2much2recover

    2much2recover Well-Known Member

    Your cellphone may have the ability to vocally record. This could help you get the threats on audio - giving you away to go around the manipulations. I feel so bad for you. I hear you on the self blame game but honestly one day you have to realize you did the best you could with children who, for whatever reason, are damaged. Some day, you are going to have to find away to let yourself off the hook . The sooner the better. When you are feeling overwhelming guilt, you will most likely be over-protective, too trusting and continue to live a life of reacting. Although your children are young , I still believe that a healthy dose of detachment, at least to the outcomes, is necessary here.
    Frankly, I think you need therapy to help YOU with strategies for what is both best for you and your children. I just went to a convention and there where people from domestic violence centers there. They are now realizing the REAL pain of abuse of parents and family members. They said that if I needed help I could get counseling on a sliding scale basis. Please call your State Domestic Violence Hotline and see what services are available to you. You deserve better than you are getting and I hope some day you come to realize that!
  13. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I agree, your son sounds a bit more bipolar. But it takes years to officially diagnosis that. Just assume he's got some mood disorder and that he needs lots of sleep ... and then get yourself some books and a therapist.
    Yes, yes, yes, hygiene (lack thereof) is a part of sensory integration disorder. In addition, Aspies often just. Don't. Care. :)
    Both of your kids feel love. However, don't expect them to express it. Even with regular kids, oftentimes, you can't expect them to "give back" until they're, oh, 30-something and have their own kids. :)
    That's why we're called Warrior Moms and we have rhino skin. We're TOUGH. Thick skinned. It doesn't happen overnight. It takes yrs to grow, but it can happen. Just take it in 1/2 hr increments. That's all I could handle when my son's behaviors were at their height.
  14. Confused

    Confused Active Member

    Im done their not going to school , daughter third day in a row so they are both going to the hospital and I refuse to leave until they admit them. They said how much they hate me and I lost it said it right back. Im a no good parent because I yell at my kids after daily hours of hell and violence. I hate my life
  15. dstc_99

    dstc_99 Well-Known Member

    I don't think there is anything wrong with asking for assistance. Maybe the hospital will be able to offer you some new resources and get you some support.
  16. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Please get some help. Just pick up the phone.
  17. Confused

    Confused Active Member

    2much2recover- Thank you, what you said makes sense... when I finally did get help before they blamed it on me not letting my son grow! Really? It does affect the whole family your right.

    TerryJ2-Ya, its something with happy to angry and violent ! Daughter it makes sense, I thought she was just being a child not wanting the hassle or trouble to bathe- but listening to you all over the years and seeing how she is, makes sense. True about kids into their 30's with the understanding and love!

    dstc_99-Well, never made it to the hospital, my dad drove them to school and he said had a long talk with them and they both said they dont want to go with their dad to live and both claimed their happy with their schools but at times just dont want to go with no their explanation :/ My daughter is so nerve racked with getting a official diagnose on her record she doesn't want to be tested and begged to just give her another chance.

    TerryJ2- My dad is coming in with me to the appts, and Im going in with my cell phone old video recorder with both of them on there( I hope my phone is old and sometimes doesnt work) and see what they they say and demand a referral to the pysch hospital in or out patients for both. I told the kids I love them but I dont know what to do for them, I mean regular teenage stuff at her age I get but add other issues, its a lot. All of sudden shes been more hands on with her dog. Its all confusing and I am also contacting this special school here in town, although I cant afford it, I still want to talk with them to see what advice she can give me( the owner of the school started it because of her child's issues ) So hopefully she has some good doctors that will actually work with my kids since shes been through it.