At What Point is it OK to Throw in the Towel with a difficult child ?

[susiestar]

DF, it is OK to be done with a child who works to actively refuse every sane type of help and every good thing you can offer. You have legal responsibilities, but they are dang low and it really is okay to limit what she had to that. This includes locking her out of every part of the house you like except her room and the bathroom (one of them). Not sure if her room still has books, knickknacks, stuffed animals, etc... that a kids room normally would have, but it is just fine to go box them up, give her the bare bones basicx, and then remove everything she takes into her room that isn't those basics. It may seem sick to some and sad to others, and wrong/evil to some, but if you do this enough sooner or later she will find her own place to live. Then she will tell a lot of lies about you, make the new family afraid of you until they meet you and see what you have done/tried, and her fun time in their luxury will be over.

It is okay to be "done" when her presence is damaging your other child, when your other child lives in fear of her and what she will do when your eyes are not on her or you are asleep. It really is okay to say "enough. you won't destroy my other child, my husband, myself, my home anymore. Go and do what you want. We are DONE. You get nothing from us but the bare bare minimum and if you leave we will report you as a runaway ONLY because we legally have to."

It is OK to go to social services and tell them that they can have her, you are done. Here she is, here are her clothes, do what you will with her. Part of that depends on your career, if the abandonment charge will keep you from doing what you want/need to. If it will, then you go to the DV center, get their help, and have CPS evaluate your son to see how he has been hurt by her - urge him to be honest and not be afraid of her.

I did NOT have any charges filed when I forced the deputies to take Wiz from our home. I was filing assault/DV charges and there was NO way they could have charged me. I am willing to bet that if your daughter hasn't assaulted you it has been close and she problem will with little provocation and/or she has assaulted her little bro with-o you knowing. Or threatened to in order to make him do what she wants. That is also not legal and you can press charges. DV charges WILL get her a place in a shelter then a foster home or whatever.

Go to the DV center and get some help. Even if she hasn't physically assaulted you, the nonstop emotional assault is DV plain and simple. They can help and can support you - and they carry a LOT of weight with the judge.

It is okay to jsut stop when you realize that not a single one of the things you have tried, have given blood, sweat, tears and your emotional well-being to get for her, have made even a teeny weeny change in her behavior.

There is no rule that says you must continue to bash your head into a wall over and over just because your child is under age 18.

(((((hugs)))))

 

[Steely]

Hmmm.....done and done with hope are 2 diifferent feelings.
I was done when matt was 17. Put him on a plane to a Utah Residential Treatment Center (RTC) that I had never visited, and told him he could never come back home.

Hope was more recently....Hope that *something* might help....hope that *I* could help....hope that *something* could change him. Truthfully I wish the loss of hope had come sooner, because the 2 years he spent in RTCs all I did is hope, argue with the staff, and once again be his advocate which derailed me even further emotionally.

I think it was about a year ago - that my whole life fell even deeper off the proverbial cliff - and I just lost all hope for really everything, including him. Not that he is even in a bad space mentally, it is just that I cannot continue to pin my hope on things in the future anymore - only for them to be continually torn down and stomped and spit on. I can only, truly take one day at a time at this point.

Hugs....i wish I knew what to tell you in terms of what to do. At your difficult child's age I was thinking seriously of getting the kid an efficiency apt and letting him figure everything out himself. I still sort of wish I had - because the Residential Treatment Center (RTC)'s also did nothing to help - and it was not until Matt has been on his own that he has really started to learn things, learn from his consequences, and from life.

 

[keista]

Should DF, her hubs, and son have to put up with abuse from difficult child?

My logic was just to let her be. Essentially ignore her. No rules should equal no abuse form her. If she acts up anyway call the cops and press charges as if she were a boarder. Ideally an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) or foster care placement would be best, but as I understood it, that's what all this jumping through hoops was supposed to result in.

 

[exhausted]

You have done everything. You have fought this broken system like crazy. I do understand, so have I. Our girls both have these borderline tendencies that complicate things. Some of the books I have read have said that tough love is not the answer for Borderline (BPD) people. They are emotionally wearing and abusive (esp. to their family) and it's just hard not to go to the tough love place to protect yourself. You are enhausted and need a parent advocate. (I found mine through NAMI). Our only caring help has been that which we did through our insurance, privately, or church.The state system has been a total horrid situation.

For me its scary to just dump my kid because she is mentally ill (Borderline Personailty is one of the toughest to treat), she's a girl (imagine if she gets pregnant), and mine has been abused (the streets would just perpetuate this abuse cycle). However, the last few weeks I have surrendered-I have stopped micromanaging everything, I still give her nothing but the basic, but I don't question, i dont hide the phone, and I go some places without her. Interesting, she has mellowed and has not run for almost 3 weeks. We took away the school stress and let her work on GED-really did not want to do this. I have found that as she makes choices and the world gives the consequences, she seems to respond better than from me.

A year ago I was right where you are (ok maybe even 1 month ago again). We did give her to the state-we refused to pick her up after we dropped her at youth services. She ran and came home. We got her in state Residential Treatment Center (RTC), she had an ugly experience (may be a blessing in the long run). We again have tried and failed to get her in another Residential Treatment Center (RTC).

I think you get a break. I think you take care of you. You can be no good to anyone after all the fighting you have done. Call NAMI-it gave me peace for awhile. Do for you for awhile. I don't believe in detatchment-but I do believe in surrendering and caring for yourself. Focus on the rest of your family.
No matter what you do-it will be a good decision-I can tell from how hard you have fought. HUGs and blessings to you DF-true WARRIOR MOM!

 

[rejectedmom]

I mean "Done" as in done fighting for Residential Treatment Center (RTC) placement...
done thinking that the system will help...
done expecting a therapist to care just a little bit...
done with meeting and phone calls and appointments and conferences...

Done with hope.

And just waiting for the inevitable "final showdown"....in whatever form that comes.

DF, I hear the exhaustion in your post. I totally understand. I know you have tried to get an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) placement I also know that it can take months for a bed to open. Believe me I have been there over and over again. I ended up sending my son to another state for his first placement. It was a private Residential Treatment Center (RTC) that was free of charge...there are some out there. I do think you need a rest from your difficult child at the very least. Maybe it is time to explore other options. I am so sorry for your pain. -RM

 

[HaoZi]

I don't have an answer, though with your situation I'd say forward progress isn't going to happen unless difficult child herself wills it, because that system sounds pretty broken and like they've given up already.

 

[BusynMember]

I have a very definite line that has to be crossed before I quit, but I do quit. I had to quit with my son that we adpted from Hong Kong.

These are my guidelines: If I have done EVERYTHING I can humanly do to help the situation and the other person does not respond in any way, I move on. I don't like to call it giving up. I call it moving on. At that particular point, I know that the situation is out of my hands and I refuse to waste my life being upset over something that I can not control.
If Scott ever wants to be a member of the family, and act reasonable toward the rest of us, the door is always open, so I have not given up. However, chances are good that this will never happen. I have a life. I will live it to the fullest with those who do value me and I will enjoy myself: "Let go and let God".

 

[Methuselah]

Thank you Daisy for this post and all the thoughtful replies. I have no hope left for my difficult children, especially difficult child 1. I have worked so hard to help them connect their behaviors to consequences, which they are determined to never do. I have worked so hard to help them develop empathy, but all they can do is fake it when they have to. That's when I knew it was all futile. I'm tired of the lies they tell about our family all so they appear an innocent victim to others. I'm tired of the way they con and manipulate people; I'm tired of how I am "just dealing with normal teenagers", because my difficult children are SO good at creating images of good, innocent kids who would never take a knife to get me in the middle of the night, spit in my drinks, steal, lie, cheat, drink and do drugs, be sexually active at school, will blame other people for their behavior and smirk when that person takes their punishment. They feel no remorse, no guilt and no shame. Never have; never will. I'm tired of it all. We provide the basics and will until they are 18. When they turn 18, they are on their own. We are doing this for our sons and for ourselves. I can't help people who think others are the ones with the problem, not them. Ever. They have never tried in any shape or form to change their behavior. It isn't that they are struggling to do the right thing, where they stumble, fall and need help getting back up. They have never been that way. Ever. I would kill for that, because that would give me hope...that inner desire to become a better person. They have always lacked that. They can fake that person, but only to get away with their bad behavior. I fear they are psychopaths in the making. :-( I worry not for them but those around them. I don't really have any guilt about that decision, because I know I have done all that I can to help someone who won't help themself. I hope you can find peace.

 

[buddy]

Hi Methusela, You are breaking my heart. You clearly did all you can do. were your difficult child's diagnosed with Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD)? They sure sound like it. Charming and sweet to cover up but really sneaky and mean to you....yikes. I am so sorry you, hub and the other two have had to endure that. I was just curious because they sound so much like some kids on another board (but younger) that I belonged to years ago. My son has insecure attachment but has never been tought to be unattached without remorse. Thank heaven, he has enough going on anyway. I really feel for you.

Thank you Daisy for this post and all the thoughtful replies. I have no hope left for my difficult children, especially difficult child 1. I have worked so hard to help them connect their behaviors to consequences, which they are determined to never do. I have worked so hard to help them develop empathy, but all they can do is fake it when they have to. That's when I knew it was all futile. I'm tired of the lies they tell about our family all so they appear an innocent victim to others. I'm tired of the way they con and manipulate people; I'm tired of how I am "just dealing with normal teenagers", because my difficult children are SO good at creating images of good, innocent kids who would never take a knife to get me in the middle of the night, spit in my drinks, steal, lie, cheat, drink and do drugs, be sexually active at school, will blame other people for their behavior and smirk when that person takes their punishment. They feel no remorse, no guilt and no shame. Never have; never will. I'm tired of it all. We provide the basics and will until they are 18. When they turn 18, they are on their own. We are doing this for our sons and for ourselves. I can't help people who think others are the ones with the problem, not them. Ever. They have never tried in any shape or form to change their behavior. It isn't that they are struggling to do the right thing, where they stumble, fall and need help getting back up. They have never been that way. Ever. I would kill for that, because that would give me hope...that inner desire to become a better person. They have always lacked that. They can fake that person, but only to get away with their bad behavior. I fear they are psychopaths in the making. :-( I worry not for them but those around them. I don't really have any guilt about that decision, because I know I have done all that I can to help someone who won't help themself. I hope you can find peace.

 

[Methuselah]

Hi MidwestMom. As with all troubled kids on troubled kids boards, they have been diagnosed with a plethora of dxs, including Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD). My difficult child 2 can emotionally connect somewhat, but difficult child 1 can't and doesn't care to learn how. :-( I have read all the books, as ever parent of a troubled kid does, and the only book that sang to me was Character Disturbances by Dr. George Simon. Every word he wrote about disturbed characters, I say regularly about my daughters. I'm sure they have Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD), but also whatever throws them over to psychopathy. My oldest son also had Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) like issues for the first two years he was part of our family. I worked diligently with him, and he is now a kid with some issues but has a great heart and character. He had that "thing" that allows people to develop and change. My girls lack it. They don't learn from bad choices, because they disconnect themselves from it and its affect on others. They never learn and grow. Ever. They just hone their skills in how not to get caught the next time. When difficult child 1 was expelled from school and thrown in jail school, she didn't learn to not drink on campus; she further learned if you appear to be the kind of person who wouldn't do immoral or illegal things, you can get away with immoral and illegal things. (She is extremely covert in her behavior and aggression.) When she speaks of jail school, she speaks of it in the same fond way she speaks of all the day camps she attended. There isn't any element of shame or remorse. Nothing but fond and funny memories. She is like that with everything.

Thank you for your thoughts. I'm sorry I babbled. No one understands. They see perfect, sweet, polite girls and can't believe what we say. I have a friend whose younger kids have been stolen from and blamed by my teenaged daughters, and the mom believes the lies my daughters told them not the truth I told and, in the case of the stealing, witnessed with my own eyes. My girls are that good at conning people with a sweet image. It's scary and exhausting. Thanks again.

 

[buddy]

Wow, that is amazing, you even admitted it and they could con their way out of it. So sad those powers are not used for the good....sigh. I believe you.

 

[CrazyinVA]

Well, here's the thing. Even when you win the battle, there are no guarantees. I fought and fought and FOUGHT for services for Youngest in high school. I followed the rules, I did everything they asked. They insisted on only gradually increasing services, wouldn't jump to Residential Treatment Center (RTC) even though I knew that was what was needed. I watched and reacted and asked for more and more help as Youngest overdosed, ran away, overdosed again, threatened herself, threatened me, engaged in dangerously permiscuous behavior, overdosed again, and on and on. I lost count of the hospitalizations. I refused to give up. I went up the chain of command, little by little, finally to the Director of Social Services, and only after I turned in a motion to relinquish my parental rights, did they finally agree to pay for and admit her to an Residential Treatment Center (RTC). I was relieved, I was ecstatic, I thought, "finally my daughter will get the help she needs." She was so unstable at that point they told me they thought it would be at least six months beofre she got out. She was discharged in less than 4. I fought again to get her into a special therapeutic school, and I won that battle. She started the school, with the best intentions.

And in the very first week of school, she was caught skipping school and smoking pot in the parking lot. It went downhill again from there. She drank heavily, experimented with heavy drugs, skipped school more. I began to give up. I had no more energy left to fight. Five months after getting out of the Residential Treatment Center (RTC), after turning 18, she dropped out of school, just 3 months shy of graduation. Six months later, she was pregnant.

So the thing is, you fight and you fight and sometimes, even when you don't give up and win the battle and get that help? There's just no guarantee of the outcome. I have no answers, except to say that you have to do what you can live with. Ultimately, I know that by not giving up, I saved my daughter's life, and that was a good reason to keep fighting at the time. In the short-term, it was the right thing to do and I'm glad I didn't give up. Long-term is a different story. I'm having to "give up" all over again as I learn to detach and distance myself from some aspects of her life.

 

[trinityroyal]

When you have 100% of the stake in difficult child's treatment and growth, and she has none of it.

You're doing all the work, you're doing all the fighting, planning, battling the system and exhausting yourself and the other members of your family. difficult child has taken no ownership in her treatment. But it's her life, and eventually she's going to have to lead it as an adult. You've given her a fully equipped tool box, but she refuses to pick up even one small phillips screwdriver. So...you put the tool box down at her feet and step back. Either she will start to do the work herself, or not. But you can't continue carrying her burdens for her forever.

I've come to a similar place with my difficult child. He's been in assisted living since 2007. He thrives in the program but that's because he's dragged by the scruff of the neck to comply. They tell him when to wake up, take his medications, study, go to his volunteer placement (and stand beside him throughout, and help him with the volunteer work), when to eat, when to bathe, when to sleep, how to speak to people, what's acceptable behaviour, what's unacceptable behaviour. Everything is in lock-down, and issued to him as he needs it. Just as husband and I did for all the years before he went to assisted living.

And any time he's given even the slightest hint of independence or freedom, he goes right off the rails. Won't sleep, eat, take his medications, work or do anything else he's supposed to. Will do or say whatever he has to -- truth, lie or something else -- to get what he wants in that moment, regardless of consequences.

4 years of fully structured, 24/7 monitoring and life-management, and he hasn't learned a thing from it. He'll toe the line but only because it's the quickest path to get what he wants. When he comes home for an overnight visit once a year at Christmas, he promptly loses every iota of independence he's gained over all that time. Then Residential Treatment Center (RTC) has to build it all back up again. (That's one of the reasons I don't let him come for overnight visits except that one night at Christmas).

When your heart and mind tell you you're done, then you're done.

Many hugs,
Trinity

 

[HaoZi]

When you have 100% of the stake in difficult child's treatment and growth, and she has none of it.

I think that sums it up pretty nicely while leaving room for the percentages to change at some point later down the road.