bad night

[Jena]

i almost posted last night, almost yet controlled myself from awakening myself even more.

difficult child was horrible last night, again. she laid in bed unable to sleep, got up fought me with-to watch t.v., do anything but lay in bed i stayed strong. she than did the usual laid there screaming my name repeatedly. that was the last sounds i heard before i fell asleep.

i cant' take this anymore. it's insane. it's been going on since birth, i wanna rip my hair out. it's like we get rid of one problem the eating disorder which i'm thrilled about and wait here comes another one worsening again.

we've tried everything. so suggestions please dont' sweet yet i'll get aggrivated lol because we've done it all. i just needed to vent. gave her natural calm last night and tryptophan. zero effect. it's scary how nothing brings this kid down.

i dont' want to let her watch tv because i just think that's bad habit forming stuff and she has tutors and doctor's next day and has to function. yet her father because she was there the night before. sat with her talked to her tried to help her get to sleep. i do not do that and have told him that.

i said if you want a dysfunctional adult keep laying with-your almost 12 year old daughter and talking to her to help her sleep. i said she'll be 12, period soon, she's gotta start growing up a bit. holding her hand at bedtime is ridiculous.

ok your manic or anxious journal than, read a book, yet do not lay there screaming my name i'm telling you every 30 seconds she does it. she has a list of coping skills she just choses to harrass me. than she yells at me at 2 a.m. i'm standing there telling her please stop screaming. so she than tells me off saying how dad helps her and i dont' and that's why she's not nasty to him lol. omg!

i have a few hours in me, that's it. easy child woke me this morning she needed something. we have therapist and than tutors. i've tried closing my door by the way it doesnt' work she screams louder. id' need a muzzle for her.

i've always said this child will put me in an early grave, i know very dramatic lol yet it's very true. she wears me down, exhausts me, depletes me.

we have psychiatric doctor in a week, and still working with-holistic doctor on junk i've been using. i've said through the years if i can just get her to sleep maybe than the daytime behaviors would be better. bipolar ppl especially need a Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) routine. set time to go to bed. she has zero. and nothing has ever worked long term to help her sleep. medications, herbals, remedies and things at home tried. it's really unbeleivable. maybe the sensory evaluation and findings will help tmrw.

thanks for listening

 

[ML]

Jena our kids have several differences but one thing I have always related with you on is their NEEDINESS and their demand for our constant attention. I want you to know I so understand your pain. I'm working hard and detaching and allowing manster to have natural consequences, knowing that the only way he will grow is to fight his way out of the deep end and if I keep saving him from himself he will never learn how to swim. It is exhausting on every level. I feel 100 years old some days. I'm feeling it today with you girlfriend. Lots of hugs xoox

 

[Bunny]

Ugh!! I don't really know what to say. It's hard to you to function and have patience with her if you are exhausted. And as for her saying that the her father would sit with her and help her? Well, he did it because she was only there for one night. Let him deal with it night after night after night and we'll see how willing he is to sit there and talk her down until she goes to sleep.

How about a sleep machine? I got one for difficult child (therapist's suggestion) and it helps him (when he chooses to put in on, that is!). He can pick which sound he likes and he can set the timer so it shuts off by itself after he falls asleep. I got it at Bed Bath and Beyond and it wasn't too expensive. It even has a clock and an alarm. That's the only suggestion that I have. Maybe if she has something else to concentrate on she'll be able to relax and fall asleep.

You're right that she needs to get herself a normal bed time routine and she needs to get more sleep that is getting. How is she when the tutors are working with her, or during the day? Does she nap? If so, try not to let her nap. Maybe then she will be more tired at night.

Pam

 

[Marcie Mac]

Have no suggestions for your girl however, I found that putting some environmental sounds into my Ipod, and plugging it into my head when I hit the bed, works wonders for me when I am stressed (and years before when my own night owl was roaming round the house everywhere in the middle of the night. My favorite is a rainstorm in a field of cows and sheep - for some reason I hear rain it always makes me tired. Mine would clean in the middle of the night when he was having a bad spell - nothing like waking up to a sound of a vacume at 3:30 in the morning. At least I was a little rested when it came time to battle him getting him out of bed. When he was doing hypnosis with the psychiatric doctor,she had given him a calming tape to listen to.

Also do you or someone you know, know how to crochet? It was my grandmothers cure for figiting. I can't tell you how many chains I made for holy medals for the missionaries in Africa. ROFLMBO I would have been credited, am sure, with covering the whole population of Africa by myself. I progressed on to scarves with a simple stich for the people who lived in cold climates and who were to poor to buy one. Maybe you could teach your girl how to do that, its not very hard.

Am so glad am past that stage. Neither one of my boys have normal sleep patterns - rule is now video games or TV need to be via their earphones, and there is no hammering, vacumeing, anything that makes noise since 5 hours is the max I can do sleeping then I am up roaming as well.

Marcie

 

[Jena]

you know what she's bipolar. so in reality there is nothing that we can do unless it is accompanied by a medication, or a herbal supplement that can help balance her. she's awesome during tutors. it's the up side to manic, she can sleep minimal hard to awaken yet once you feed it and push a little she flies all day long into another 24 hr period.

 

[HaoZi]

As long as she's functioning during the hours she needs to, it seems the problem isn't so much her not sleeping as her not letting you sleep. Mine will also be up all hours, either up late or wakes up early (like 3am). I try not to let her on the computer late at night, but if she's already slept and gets up early and plays on the comp quietly until it's time for me to get up I don't care.

I remember in Saving Private Ryan, one of the guys says something about the surest way to not sleep is to try to fall asleep, and the surest way to sleep is to try to stay awake. I've often found it true.

 

[Jena]

very true. well doctor's have told her that being up for 4 days in a row with a few hours each night if that isn't healthy for her body. if it were ok medically i'd let it fly. so that's why for years we have worked with-alot of diff medications and approaches to help her get her sleep wake cycle under control. she'll need it for the future also.

unfortunately life isn't going to work around her, as i'm sure you know. jobs start at 9 a.m. not at 12 lol. that's when she'd awaken if i dont' touch her if she heads to bed at 4. i know that she's up some nights due to anxiety and obsessing over next day her Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) doesnt' help it, because when she locks into a thought or even a negative unrealistic Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) thought that obsessive nature puts it in hold position. than the nights she's manic which appears really different she just wants to "DO" all night long write songs, recipes, sing on her sing stand with-a full face of make up.

either way it's no way to go thru life, unless you can fit life to your cycle and who you are. which i guess if she picked a career or opened her own business some day she could. yet sleeps huge. they say if you do not get enough rest it actually takes years off your life.

so, even if you medicate her still no sleep? do they know why yet, i mean what diagnosis tag their going to give it

i dont' trust her either to be honest awake like that, with all the negativity flying out of her mouth lately with knives in house, and other junk. just my gut or maybe my paranoia from working in the field fora while yet i've seen some nasty things occur. so my own anxiety keeps me up. like last night she was pushing buttons hard, and i stayed calm till about 2 than i started to loose it with her a bit got a little nasty more forceful with-my tone that sort of thing. she stayed in the bed yet i couldnt' relax than i was too reved up from her........... ah round and round we go.

 

[SearchingForRainbows]

Jenna,

difficult child 1 is bipolar too. There were way too many nights in our house when he was wide awake the entire night. He found other ways to spend his time other then screaming my name over and over again, etc... Not sure if they were any better, just different. I ended up having many sleepless nights because I was too scared to sleep. NOT FUN!!!

Really sorry you're going through this!!! No words of wisdom from me. Just a shoulder to lean on...

Got to go. It's time to pick up difficult child 2. The FUN NEVER ENDS...

Hoping you're able to get some much needed rest this evening... Hugs... SFR

 

[Josie]

There are adults who watch TV to get themselves to sleep. husband is one. Maybe if you let her watch TV, she would relax and fall asleep earlier than you think. You could set her up on the couch with a blanket and pillow, if she doesn't have a TV in her room.

I think I remember that some of the kids with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) on a list I was on, used the TV to keep their obsessions away at night.

Even if she stays up late at first, if she has to get up in the morning, she might adjust her sleep schedule to do it.

 

[Jena]

SFR a person who truly gets what i'm saying lol. ok i gotta ask how old is your child now? did it ever balance out? if so what medication did you use?? you knew id' hit you with-a ton of questions on this lol. yea easy child is wishing she'd of gone away to college. she's grown up with this almost her entire life. it's sooo hard on the siblings.

 

[HaoZi]

My boyfriend is one of those often-manic bipolars, and one of the very few guys I know that sleep less than I do. He worked 2nd or 3rd shift jobs mostly and that worked well for him, so he got lucky. Not unheard of for him to go with little to no sleep for days at a time either. Gifted people also tend to need less sleep than most as well, and you've mentioned she's quite bright. The TV on the couch thing might not be the worst idea, mine will get like that, too, worse if she's on the comp, but sometimes just 30 minutes in front of the TV instead will knock her right out (especially if it's all she's allowed to do).

Being like this all her life I don't see her sleep changing much now (though it may when she hits teen years, most of them can sleep forevvvvvvver), best you might be able to do is drag her up at around the same time every day (even weekends) and hope it catches up with her.

 

[Jena]

that's great he was able to do that. no, mtg with-a new pyschdoc hopefully soon.met with-new pyschologist today. heard she's great with-medications. we tried that it doesnt' work. yet i do appreciate all the ideas. sorry i gotta shoot you down again. she can go go go doesnt' matter how much she sleeps. she's more of a hypermanic kinda kid. like a little motor is attached to her same as a baby. she would go thru th ehouse at all hours of the night. she dove out of crib once lol sheesh memories and she broke her arm in multiple places. she was never still for too long lol.

 

[HaoZi]

Wish you luck with the new doctor. Only thing boyfriend had that knocked him out was the combo of the lithium and the thyroid medications he ended up on because of the bipolar medications. If he wasn't on them it was go go go. Nap briefly (maybe). Go go go. Rinse. Repeat.

 

[Marguerite]

As you said, sleep is important. I wonder if that is what ages us so fast when we become parents - our lack of sleep. When my kids were born I remember this great bit of advice - sleep when the baby sleeps. But what if your baby doesn't sleep? And what about all the stuff that you can't do while the kid is awake and underfoot? You can't let things slide forever.

I use the iPod to get myself to sleep sometimes. Not white noise, but I put on a book. I find I never get to hear much of the book, it puts me to sleep. difficult child 1 used to do the same, he had trouble sleeping so he would put his iPod on. Trouble was, his ear buds leaked a lot of sound and with difficult child 3 in the same room with sensory sensitivity, he would complain about the sound of difficult child 1's iPod! So one would be asleep, the other awake and complaining. Then the other would wake and threaten to kill his brother... meanwhile husband or I were desperately trying to get our own sleep but needing to referee WWIII!

Now it's difficult child 3 who doesn't sleep properly. I am very sensitive to noise and light at night, I have to sleep with ear plugs. When we were trying to monitor easy child 2/difficult child 2's precocious sexual behaviour, we needed to take turns as parents standing guard. No chance to catch up on sleep because she was waiting for us to nod off so she could sneak out to her boyfriend. I had to give up on my ear plugs back then. It didn't take us long to cave, and get her on the Pill.

With difficult child 3 now, he is supposed to be in bed before midnight. He gets 15 mins reward time if he is in bed by 11.30 pm, and 5 mins if it is after 11.30 but before midnight. Even so, he is often up late and the light under the door keeps me awake because I know difficult child 3 is not in bed yet. We have a deal with his psychologist that we will wake difficult child 3 every morning at the normal time anyway (he gets an extra hour on non-school days) but it is still a huge task to get difficult child 3 up in the mornings without him getting violent and verbally abusive. He has an alarm clock - I hear it repeatedly chime; he hits snooze; it chimes again a short while later; he hits snooze again - I think we need the kind of alarm clock that jumps off the table and runs around the room screaming. You have to find the detachable gizmo and put it back on the base station for the alarm to shut off. Only difficult child 3's room is not suitable for it. There is a helicopter version...

Marg

 

[HaoZi]

I've known parents that rigged those old huge fire alarm bells in or just outside their kid's room to get them up. Sometimes putting the clock on the other side of the room so you have to get up to hit the snooze helps. And sometimes you just throw things at it to make it shut up...

 

[Marguerite]

I use water. In our house we use various mist spray bottles, mostly with water in them, for cleaning. In the laundry the bottle contains vinegar. To get a difficult kid out of bed, I get the mist spray bottle, adjust the nozzle to JET (check it by firing it into the sink first) then I go into the kid's room, quietly lift the bedding from the foot of the bed, gently ease the pyjama leg away from the ankle, then fire up the inside of the pyjama leg with the spray bottle. On jet. They might try to lie there and ignore it, but the feel of clammy damp pyjamas in the leg regions generally wakes them up enough to get them out of bed. They have to change to feel comfortable, and by then they are awake. There isn't enough water in this to need to dry out the bedding or pyjamas, but this does work. You do need to be able to retreat fast, however. Also, you may find the other kids beg for a turn at the spray bottle. And you only ever get to do this a handful of times. After tat, the kid hears you coming with the spray bottle and they magically levitate out of bed...

Marg

 

[shellyd67]

Rough night ! I hope she manages better soon. My difficult child is a night owl. Whether he is on medications or not. He falls asleep after midnight and gets up around 8am every morning. He has done this for quite a few years and manages just fine. Fortunately he stays in his bed quitely and listens to music or reads something of interest. How about letting her watch a little TV ? Maybe if she has a movie she likes it will distract her and might make for easier nights.

 

[Jena]

i tried that yet what she does is she'll sit in the den till 4 a.m. watching it. it gets crazy. than i've had it in the room yet same thing again. she needs some medications and we're starting yoga tmrw. she's got a whole lot of coping skills yet no medications right now. neither were working so we pulled them and than she finally ate LOL unreal!

marg - yes that is why, we lack sleep and it doesn't give our body time to repair itself naturally, wrinkles form, puffiness and we just feel overall fatigued. sorry to hear your going down the same road. you would think i'd be used to it be now lol. i think it's just i'm getting older. when i had her i wasn't 30 yet and i was able to stay up for literally hours. i had super energy up till about 3 years ago than i started to slow down a bit and need regular sleep. yet thing is with husband's schedule i dont' get sleep either. it's an insane life i lead.

 

[Wiped Out]

I definitely can feel your pain. I'd never be able to deal with it again on a regular basis. When difficult child was young he was up all hours due to his bipolar. He only would get about 3-4 hours asleep per night and he wasn't the type to let us get any either. In fact, it was on one of those nights that I found this board.

difficult child's psychiatrist is very insistent that difficult child needs his sleep-honestly if it wasn't for the medications difficult child takes that definitely help him sleep I don't know where I'd be. I don't function well with little sleep and difficult child so exhausts me during the day that I just wait for him to fall asleep-probably sounds terrible but it is the truth.

 

[HaoZi]

Lock out every channel on her TV but CSPAN?