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Being who we are, even if FOO is different and doesn't like it
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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 671994" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>I think we need not name this weakness Leafy so much as that we did not believe they meant it; we did not take them seriously. For me and my son, and maybe, for you and this daughter too Leafy, life has borne out that the kids seem to have meant those ugly words, and that ugly thinking behind them. I have a theory (based on nothing) that when we use illicit drugs routinely, the alteration in brain chemistry has to do with the chemicals responsible, first for empathy, and then, without empathy to guide us, for integrity. The high is not in the drug used, but in the chemicals it wrings out of the brain to create the high. So, it makes sense to me that with the good chemistry used up in one blast, our children are living from worlds that are very dark and maybe, without the capacity to love. That could be how this ongoing ugliness is happening to us, and to our addicted children. My son was nothing like this as a child or an adolescent.</p><p></p><p>We lost our son at 16 too, Leafy.</p><p></p><p>One day, he was working, doing great in school, running for Student Council president and the next, he wasn't. Like you too Leafy, we have never seen our same son, again. Serenity posted so honestly to all of us about verbally abusive adult children. And somehow, it seemed we had never considered that a child could verbally abuse a parent. But they can, and they were, and I recognized my son there, too. </p><p></p><p>And you could have blown me over with a feather. </p><p></p><p>But I had been here long enough by that time to have absorbed what I could of detachment theory and, with the undeniable truth of the verbal abuse happening between myself and my son, I was able to stand up to him. Boy, he hated that. It was awful. So, we all just kept learning and trying and reading and sharing and one day, we realized our kids were actually doing better once we'd said: NO MONEY. So, we worked a little longer, a little more specifically. We began to wonder how it might have gone differently had we been stronger people.</p><p></p><p>And a long time after that, FOO Chronicles was started.</p><p></p><p>So I got a little off track, here. The part that matters is that we (all the parents here) trusted our children to be the people we'd known as we raised them. We could no more believe the words or contempt or theft or lack of a moral compass in our children than we could have flown.</p><p></p><p>We did not take it seriously. Not because we were afraid or weak. Because we literally refused to believe that what our eyes were seeing and what our brains were reporting could be the things that mattered.</p><p></p><p>Sort of, "Call me what you like, think of my any way your want, just stop using. Don't do this to me, and don't do this, to you." <em>We didn't matter to ourselves, Leafy. Only our children mattered. Just the way we were taught was the right way to do this when we were little girls. </em></p><p></p><p><em>This is not a healthy way to model health or strength for our kids.</em></p><p></p><p>Then, we sealed it all in denial and never faced it head on, again. Just like we have had to do, all of our lives, to survive our childhoods, and to function as adults in the world in spite of negative tapes that would stop another person dead in their tracks.</p><p></p><p>Slap a layer of denial on it and function beautifully. That is what we do, Leafy. That is what we did.</p><p></p><p>It may not have been the best thing for our kids.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>I think the piece about empathy and then, integrity makes sense because Our Gift From God kids are spectacularly, astonishingly mean in the same ways.</p><p></p><p>Almost verbatim.</p><p></p><p>There is mom on P.E. whose son has said even more horrible things to she and her husband than my son has said, to me. </p><p></p><p>I mean, just awful things, the worst I have ever heard.</p><p></p><p>My son tells me things like he has been told he will come into his inheritance at 46.</p><p></p><p>Which would mean D H and I would both be dead.</p><p></p><p>But my son stressed that to me really hard. I laughed it off and smoothed it over and said all the things anyone might say. But...who talks to their mother like that? Someone blaming his mother for where he took his life, that's who.</p><p></p><p>What kind of man does that.</p><p></p><p>The kind of man whose mom lets him, that's who. And I did let him, Leafy. Because I believed I had failed him. But I did not fail him. <em>He failed me.</em> Had I been able to see it that way, might our son have changed the course of his life? I don't know. But I do know kindness and understanding and believing and guilt and depression and agony did not help him. We got so twisted into an enabling mindset in our family that daughter would go into crisis and like clockwork, son would go, next.</p><p></p><p>It was unbelievable.</p><p></p><p>I am glad we (I) finally learned to say no. D H never had a minute's problem helping or, when he was done helping, with saying no. I did. D H would give money to calm me. So it got very ugly. That is how I know about triangulation. Because I did that to my D H. At one point, D H was so sick of all of it he no longer believed anything we did would make any difference. He said it was simpler to shell out the money and get them out of his space.</p><p></p><p>And I was appalled.</p><p></p><p>But D H was correct.</p><p></p><p>Because all that money, and all that time, never changed a thing. Saying NO MONEY changed very many things, it seems. I wonder what the change will be as I become healthier still, and begin requiring civility.</p><p></p><p>It was never that we were weak, Leafy.</p><p></p><p>We believed. We sacrificed our happiness, time, and attention <em>as was required of us in our childhoods.</em> We could not know that was a wrong way to go.</p><p></p><p>Now, we do.</p><p></p><p>Well, I'm getting there and you're almost there and Copa is right in the fire and will come through beautifully with M beside her. Feeling, if you are reading along, your heart is tender and bruised, now. <em>But with all my heart Feeling, I believe you are following the correct course for your son.</em></p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>I am sorry that your daughter is having problems too, Leafy. My daughter treats us both so much differently than our son does. Daughter can be manipulative too, but she doesn't seem to hate us. Daughter's issues are very different than son's.</p><p></p><p>And involve diagnoses so scary to me.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>I am rambling on a little bit here, but it helps me when someone else shares honestly about the words her kids use, or the ways they think that are so shocking to us. Then, I can know it isn't something I've done to the child, and it wasn't that I was a rotten mom after all. Though I wish I had done so many things differently but you know what? Drug use is the crux of the issue with our son. </p><p></p><p>How awful for all of us. Such a terrible loss, for us and for our children and for the world, really.</p><p></p><p>But mostly, for us.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p><p></p><p>Happy Hour here, everybody. Have a nice night, sleep well.</p><p></p><p>:O)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 671994, member: 17461"] I think we need not name this weakness Leafy so much as that we did not believe they meant it; we did not take them seriously. For me and my son, and maybe, for you and this daughter too Leafy, life has borne out that the kids seem to have meant those ugly words, and that ugly thinking behind them. I have a theory (based on nothing) that when we use illicit drugs routinely, the alteration in brain chemistry has to do with the chemicals responsible, first for empathy, and then, without empathy to guide us, for integrity. The high is not in the drug used, but in the chemicals it wrings out of the brain to create the high. So, it makes sense to me that with the good chemistry used up in one blast, our children are living from worlds that are very dark and maybe, without the capacity to love. That could be how this ongoing ugliness is happening to us, and to our addicted children. My son was nothing like this as a child or an adolescent. We lost our son at 16 too, Leafy. One day, he was working, doing great in school, running for Student Council president and the next, he wasn't. Like you too Leafy, we have never seen our same son, again. Serenity posted so honestly to all of us about verbally abusive adult children. And somehow, it seemed we had never considered that a child could verbally abuse a parent. But they can, and they were, and I recognized my son there, too. And you could have blown me over with a feather. But I had been here long enough by that time to have absorbed what I could of detachment theory and, with the undeniable truth of the verbal abuse happening between myself and my son, I was able to stand up to him. Boy, he hated that. It was awful. So, we all just kept learning and trying and reading and sharing and one day, we realized our kids were actually doing better once we'd said: NO MONEY. So, we worked a little longer, a little more specifically. We began to wonder how it might have gone differently had we been stronger people. And a long time after that, FOO Chronicles was started. So I got a little off track, here. The part that matters is that we (all the parents here) trusted our children to be the people we'd known as we raised them. We could no more believe the words or contempt or theft or lack of a moral compass in our children than we could have flown. We did not take it seriously. Not because we were afraid or weak. Because we literally refused to believe that what our eyes were seeing and what our brains were reporting could be the things that mattered. Sort of, "Call me what you like, think of my any way your want, just stop using. Don't do this to me, and don't do this, to you." [I]We didn't matter to ourselves, Leafy. Only our children mattered. Just the way we were taught was the right way to do this when we were little girls. [/I] [I]This is not a healthy way to model health or strength for our kids.[/I] Then, we sealed it all in denial and never faced it head on, again. Just like we have had to do, all of our lives, to survive our childhoods, and to function as adults in the world in spite of negative tapes that would stop another person dead in their tracks. Slap a layer of denial on it and function beautifully. That is what we do, Leafy. That is what we did. It may not have been the best thing for our kids. *** I think the piece about empathy and then, integrity makes sense because Our Gift From God kids are spectacularly, astonishingly mean in the same ways. Almost verbatim. There is mom on P.E. whose son has said even more horrible things to she and her husband than my son has said, to me. I mean, just awful things, the worst I have ever heard. My son tells me things like he has been told he will come into his inheritance at 46. Which would mean D H and I would both be dead. But my son stressed that to me really hard. I laughed it off and smoothed it over and said all the things anyone might say. But...who talks to their mother like that? Someone blaming his mother for where he took his life, that's who. What kind of man does that. The kind of man whose mom lets him, that's who. And I did let him, Leafy. Because I believed I had failed him. But I did not fail him. [I]He failed me.[/I] Had I been able to see it that way, might our son have changed the course of his life? I don't know. But I do know kindness and understanding and believing and guilt and depression and agony did not help him. We got so twisted into an enabling mindset in our family that daughter would go into crisis and like clockwork, son would go, next. It was unbelievable. I am glad we (I) finally learned to say no. D H never had a minute's problem helping or, when he was done helping, with saying no. I did. D H would give money to calm me. So it got very ugly. That is how I know about triangulation. Because I did that to my D H. At one point, D H was so sick of all of it he no longer believed anything we did would make any difference. He said it was simpler to shell out the money and get them out of his space. And I was appalled. But D H was correct. Because all that money, and all that time, never changed a thing. Saying NO MONEY changed very many things, it seems. I wonder what the change will be as I become healthier still, and begin requiring civility. It was never that we were weak, Leafy. We believed. We sacrificed our happiness, time, and attention [I]as was required of us in our childhoods.[/I] We could not know that was a wrong way to go. Now, we do. Well, I'm getting there and you're almost there and Copa is right in the fire and will come through beautifully with M beside her. Feeling, if you are reading along, your heart is tender and bruised, now. [I]But with all my heart Feeling, I believe you are following the correct course for your son.[/I] *** I am sorry that your daughter is having problems too, Leafy. My daughter treats us both so much differently than our son does. Daughter can be manipulative too, but she doesn't seem to hate us. Daughter's issues are very different than son's. And involve diagnoses so scary to me. *** I am rambling on a little bit here, but it helps me when someone else shares honestly about the words her kids use, or the ways they think that are so shocking to us. Then, I can know it isn't something I've done to the child, and it wasn't that I was a rotten mom after all. Though I wish I had done so many things differently but you know what? Drug use is the crux of the issue with our son. How awful for all of us. Such a terrible loss, for us and for our children and for the world, really. But mostly, for us. Cedar Happy Hour here, everybody. Have a nice night, sleep well. :O) [/QUOTE]
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