Beyond Difficult

[ElizabethL]

Sorry for the delay in coming back here. I haven't been handling the stress well and it made me quite sick.

@LittleDudesMom - You highlighted 'identified disability'. Does that mean he must be diagnosed with a disability first?

In my meeting with the school last week, they were not interested in discussing future options, stating they only discuss options in the middle of the fourth quarter, with any changes going into effect for the following year. They've already made it clear he won't be attending this school next year due to his age and size for his current grade (he'd be an over 6 foot tall 14 year old in the 6th grade, so I get it). Add in that they feel he is a danger to other students, and I'm not sure specialized education in this school would be a viable option. There is an alternative learning school in the area (outside of walking distance) I've been told, and he will probably be pushed off to that one for next year, since homeschooling is just not an option for us. The meeting ended with them asking for permission to discuss my child with his new doctor direct and them wanting him back in the counseling program he went through before, both of which I respectfully declined.

@A dad - I wouldn't be concerned at all if it was just him saying he was hearing voices. He had mentioned something along those lines to me several years ago, and I had written it off as a child thing. To be honest, I'd written off most of his behavior as hormones, growing up, and the extreme end of normal. It's the blatant disregard for other people, the manipulation, the calculated awareness of what he needs to do and say to get a specific reaction from others with no regard for the consequences, the choosing the extreme defiance route with any consequence and reward system (will the consequence really be followed through, or will a reward be given anyway, how fast will the consequence be given if the behavior is far beyond what the consequence was issued for)- those are the things that worry me the most.

I'm not talking a normal pushing of the boundaries that all children do as they are learning. I'm talking the extreme end of the spectrum with all of this. I remember what it was like to be a teenager, and I am not free of skeletons in my closet. I have had panic disorder, with a side of depression and insomnia for as long as I can remember. I had the parents going through a divorce, parental infidelity, and emotional neglect growing up. I was extremely defiant with outside of the house authority. I've done some extreme things. But, I was still mostly within the bounds of what is considered "normal" given the circumstances. And given all that I've done when I was growing up, I have fear when it comes to my own child's behavior. He simply does not care about anyone or anything, and that is reflected in his everyday actions. Even when he's being good, which he is being this week, it's for a specific reason. I should not have to question why he's being good, or what he's hiding with his good behavior, but that is the reality I'm living with. Highs and lows I can deal with, and are an expected part of parenting. But, the highs with him are false pretenses hidden behind ulterior motives, so really there are no highs and lows, it's all lows and lower.

I will find out why he was being good this week during his next downward spiral, which is likely to follow spring break, and it will suck all the joy out of this good week, as it always does.

 

[InsaneCdn]

I will find out why he was being good this week during his next downward spiral, which is likely to follow spring break, and it will suck all the joy out of this good week, as it always does.

So, he is worse in school than at home?
That doesn't mean he's good enough to home school but... school may be part of the problem?

 

[Bunny]

I know how you feel about the bad days sucking the joy out of the good ones. I'm experiencing that myself right about now.

 

[ElizabethL]

So, he is worse in school than at home?
That doesn't mean he's good enough to home school but... school may be part of the problem?

I think it's more, if he's terrible at home then he isn't allowed to go out, and I take his stuff away until he loses his attitude. That happens when he's terrible at school, but it's not as immediate as it is at home. I also don't want him in the house all the time, so I can't ground him forever.

He hates school. Doesn't see the point in it. He feels he'll be just fine out in the world without an education. I don't know how to explain to him why it's important to at least get a diploma without using an if-then statement (If you don't graduate high school, then you won't get a good job). If-then statements tend to imply a consequence and reward, and he automatically aims to prove the consequence won't happen, and will get the reward even if he does his worst.

He doesn't see the point in a lot of things, and getting him to do those things is a hassle. Common things, like taking a shower (why? I'm just going to need to take another one tomorrow), cleaning his room (again, why? It'll just get dirty again). Normally a firm, because I said so, helps get him to do things. No if-then's on 'You stink- go shower'. I use to consider that as normal kid stuff, until he also included life itself in his pointless ponderings.

 

[A dad]

I think it's more, if he's terrible at home then he isn't allowed to go out, and I take his stuff away until he loses his attitude. That happens when he's terrible at school, but it's not as immediate as it is at home. I also don't want him in the house all the time, so I can't ground him forever.

He hates school. Doesn't see the point in it. He feels he'll be just fine out in the world without an education. I don't know how to explain to him why it's important to at least get a diploma without using an if-then statement (If you don't graduate high school, then you won't get a good job). If-then statements tend to imply a consequence and reward, and he automatically aims to prove the consequence won't happen, and will get the reward even if he does his worst.

He doesn't see the point in a lot of things, and getting him to do those things is a hassle. Common things, like taking a shower (why? I'm just going to need to take another one tomorrow), cleaning his room (again, why? It'll just get dirty again). Normally a firm, because I said so, helps get him to do things. No if-then's on 'You stink- go shower'. I use to consider that as normal kid stuff, until he also included life itself in his pointless ponderings.

This makes me remember of the time my boys were his age they stank like a garbage trunk and still refused to wash. But after girls entered the picture at least for my oldest things changed he had way better hygiene after all he did not want his girlfriend to smell a garbage trunk. So take comfort that he might change as he did with the peeing in bed when the sleepover period started I guess because he had the right motivation. My youngest always hated school but he still finished it even if with minimum effort and he still has problems with hygiene as girls were not a motivator in his life but for now he is on the "normal" way trying to support himself. As I said things are not that bad with what I quoted I think many boys do pass trough this phase. Also I heard in USA schools are not boys friendly but again as I do not live there I do not know if its just bad propaganda.

 

[BusynMember]

Hearing voices is not a child thing. Did you ask him if they tell him what to do? Does he listen to them?

I personally would take this very seriously. It sounds like a sign of psychosis, which could be halted now so it does not make his condition degenerate later. We have to take what they tell us seriously and to cover every corner. Does any bipolar disorder or schizophrenia lay in his DNA? This means his father too, even if he never met him. He is still 50% his DNA.

I disagree that this a good vs. bad issue, other than sick or sicker. He is not well and probably has a mental illness. That can cause both children and adults to do the bizarre and unacceptable until they are stabilized.Has he seen a psychiatrist (with the MD)? School is not the place where you will get help for these issues. They are educators, not psychiatrists.

 

[InsaneCdn]

I disagree that this a good vs. bad issue, other than sick or sicker. He is not well and probably has a mental illness

I agree with this.
I suspect he either has a mental illness, or a developmental disorder - or both.

I'm not even so sure he is doing these things to make people upset. He truly does not "get it". Why shower? (or bath... sometimes we forget to give an option) One of my kids used the logic that 100 years ago, people had one bath a week - so why do we need one a day now? To be honest, I can sort of see his logic, but sometimes we have to conform to "societal norms" - like it or not. (but WHY, Mom...???)

For the record: School can really be toxic for some kids - been there done that TWICE. I have kids who can operate fairly well in the work world... but have major problems getting an education. From the school environment, to teacher attitudes (ok, not all of them, but enough to be a problem), to the curriculum itself... school can be totally toxic. Wish I had a good alternative.

 

[4Tall]

Common things, like taking a shower (why? I'm just going to need to take another one tomorrow), cleaning his room (again, why? It'll just get dirty again). Normally a firm, because I said so, helps get him to do things. No if-then's on 'You stink- go shower'. I use to consider that as normal kid stuff, until he also included life itself in his pointless ponderings.

I know this is just a tiny part of it, but with my older Difficult Child when he was around that age, I set him up with a shower caddy (like older sister used in the college dorm) stocked with lots of "manly" body washes, shampoo, a special loofah sponge, etc. Then we would stick his clean underwear & shorts and a washcloth in it. He would get to choose the upstairs or the downstairs bathroom, and we would set up his iPod with speakers. To make it a "cool" event to take a shower. It was way better than him escalating EVERY night over taking a shower. I wouldn't even tell him that it was time to shower since that could start a war. I just packed up the shower caddy and started the iTunes. He would usually trail in there while I was setting up the iPod.

 

[JackBeNimble]

Everybody wants to put a label to people saying he has this condition or that condition. The cold hard fact is that some people are just born mean and I've seen it in both males and females. Most of them don't ever change and end up in prison or worse. Unfortunately they learn very quickly how to manipulate their parents and others. Lying, stealing or whatever just gives them a feeling of strength and joy. How to correct this kind of behavior is nothing short of impossible as they will stop at nothing to get their way. I had a ten year old kid living next door for a year that had a mean streak a mile long. Thank God they moved away before things got any worse.

 

[SueSM816]

Hi, I just wanted to say on the IEP issue - you have the right to request an IEP evaluation, so I would definitely do that. The school may recommend an "alternative" school, but if you have an IEP and he has a diagnosis, his next school would be a *therapeutic* school for children with his diagnosis. That might be really helpful to you as all the interventions will be tailored to him. Hopefully you can get him into a psychiatrist to get him an accurate diagnosis. Good Luck