Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Malika, Jun 24, 2016.

  1. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    As I and many of my compatriots are reeling in shock at the barely believable news that the UK is (suicidally) cutting itself off from Europe, I wondered what the take on it is in the States?
  2. pasajes4

    pasajes4 Well-Known Member

    I am waiting for my British friends to weigh in. It will no doubt have global implications.
  3. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    I think its insane. Brexit was voted for by the British equivalent of our Trump voters, basically. The Brexit movement played on the same fears that Trump is playing upon: Immigration, jobs, white pride, nationalism, isolationism, etc. The economic implications, both for Britain, the EU, and the USA are huge.

    There's also going to be a carry on effect, starting with Scotland, who has already said they will vote on leaving the UK and staying in the EU. Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland are now talking reunification and leaving the UK. That leaves Britain and Wales, and Wales is by no means a strong economic partner.

    Here in the US, so far. The right wing conservatives are cheering Brexit because it follows along with their beliefs. Texas, which has been mumbling about secession for years, is becoming more and more organized in that direction, even though our constitution doesn't allow it.

    Texas is cheering Brexit (I'm generalizing. There are liberal Democrats in Texas) . Personally, I'd as soon they leave. They take about twice from the government as what they contribute, and are a constant source of discord.

    Like Brexit, Texas hasn't though of what losing their military bases, military contractors, federal prisons, etc, would do to their economy, not to mention the services they now get without charge as a member of the republic.

    It'll be a nasty wakeup for them, just as it will for the Brits who voted Leave, when they realize how much more daily life is going to cost them without the support and backing of the EU.
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  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Is this a foreshadowing that we will have a President Trump??? (Shudder)
  5. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    Too soon to tell. What it does show, is that the beliefs of the Trump-ites are not isolated to the U.S. Neo-fascist politicians are leading in polls in most countries in the EU.

    In a way, it all started with Angela Merkel of Germany, who allowed in a flood of refugees without advanced preparation. We have all seen how disorganized handling of the ME refugees had a huge impact on the countries who took them in, and on the refugees themselves, many of whom died making the sea crossings, and many of whom are dying in refugee camps of disease and starvation. Many more are being cruelly treated in detention facilities.

    Europe isn't that different from the US. They have the same worries, hopes, and fears that we Americans do. And looking at what was going on in the EU, combined with the right-wing media's twisting of much of the reporting Americans see, led a group of people already ignorant and bigoted in the US, to become ripe for a lead who would promise them riches and safety, and protection from the "bad people" who would slay them, despoil their women, and rape and murder their daughters and sons.
    If you can stomach it, look up some English transcripts of Hitler's speeches made during the late 30's. You will find that not a whole helluva lot has changed.
  6. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    I'm not weighing in - (though I give a big ditto to that shudder) - but reminding everyone to be careful. This could become a (forbidden) political thread.

    Frankly, the whole world today is starting to remind me of V for Vendetta.
  7. pasajes4

    pasajes4 Well-Known Member

    Texas is not leaving the union.
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    The talk about Mexicans and Muslims scares me. My family in decades past were victims of Hitler.

    I think of Europe as more tolerant than we are...For a long time I decided not to watch the news because the state of the world really stressed me out. Maybe I need another hiatus. This is just not least not to me.
  9. pasajes4

    pasajes4 Well-Known Member

    Decisions made from fear and hate have historically ended badly. America has made numerous decisions on this basis and many innocent people were victimized. It now appears that there is regret by some that voted to leave who now in hindsight regret their decision. It would apper that there were also people who did not vote, believing that it would never happen, now regret not exercising their right to vote.

    Sadly it could happen here in this election. It is frightning.
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  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    They have ended very badly and so many people were hurt and killed.

    I am alarmed by this event in the UK and even more afraid it is a foreshadowing our own country.

    I think I will crawl back into my safe cocoon again. I will vote. I always do. but I will not listen to hate ftom anyone who may lead or leads any country.

    I am not a fan of white pride (extra big shudder).
  11. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    Swot, I think now is the time when you must listen, even if you can only do it in small doses. We must be knowledgeable to fight this battle.

    Especially for most of us here. I don't have children and grandchildren to secure a safe, peaceful, free world for. It's just me.

    I fignt for YOUR children and grandchildren.

    I was raised, not with "white pride", but with ethnic pride. My people were scholars, Litvak Jews who considered themselves to be the very best and brightest. They looked down on other Eastern European Jewry as being inferior. The Germans looked down on as, as with other Ashekenazim. At the same time, the Sephardim, looked down on us Eastern Europeans because we were converts, not born in the cradle of Jewish civilization in the Middle East.

    So, you had the Jews, whom everyone hated, and we were busy hating each other!

    This is all important. And religion is playing more of a role in this Election cycle than in any in my memory. I know that JFK's presidency was considered scandalous, not because of his philandering, but because he was a Catholic. This is different. In a way, we are voting on whether or not to let the camel of theocracy slip its nose under the tent flap of our rights as free citizens.

    Study and listen and assimilate. We have to this time. Our future and the futures of our loved ones and those yet to come depends on us.
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  12. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Oh,GN, I know. I do know. You are so right
    My kids are alarmed as well. I can't stay in that cocoon. Thank you. I needed that.
  13. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    My own feeling about this - I really don't know it, it is no more than a feeling - is that some people voted to leave who were not rabid, Trump-type ignoramuses but because Britain is a small island that is seriously overcrowded - school classes bursting at the seams, pressure on the national health service, etc. Immigration is an issue not just on fear-based, racial grounds. In saying these things, I actually in no way support them, or the Leave camp. Perish the thought! I just think if more than 50 per cent of the voters voted to leave, not all of them were motivated by hatred. Of course, as Going North has eloquently put it, they have simply shot themselves in the foot and now begins the process (presumably) of waking up to what cutting off from the EU really means - not some glorious, self-determined prosperity but increasing recession and poverty. As well as emotional, spiritual poverty if we can talk about a country having a "spirit".
  14. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    Malika, with Trump, we've found that about 30% of the US voting public bases their voting decisions on racism, guns, individual sexual and reproductive matters, and religion. Or, in other words, the Civil War never ended for many in the US.

    What the current political scene has done in the US is bring what was kept to oneself or between family and friends out in public in all its naked vileness.

    It is saddening and very frightening to believe that such a large percentage of the (white) population still, after all these years, feels this way.

    Sadder still is the resurgence of the KKK, and various neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups who have found, in Trump, a leader they can willingly follow.

    The fact that the "final solution" this time is directed at Muslims, and not Jews, is no consolation. There are politicians on the right, some of whom have been chosen for the Republican nominee's cabinet, who are considerably more extreme than the nominee himself.

    And yes, xenophobia is a huge issue here as well, as is homo/trans phobia.

    It is sad how we worry so much about Muslim "extremists" here in the US, when in fact it is our home-grown non-Muslim extremists who are the greatest danger to us.
  15. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    GN, not to get too political. I know we arent supposed to get into politics too much. It really started with Mexicans and the big wall. Brought the bigots out.

    Lets just say I dont think he'd be safe with his finger on the button and I hope the GOP convention shows us a surprise. A sane candidate is hoped for by me,even if I dont agree with the politics of the person.
  16. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    That's a relative statement. The equivalent of saying political candidates need to be honest.
    Politics is an arena that requires a certain degree of dishonesty, and a certain degree of insanity. You really do have to be "a bit crazy" to be involved. There are other politically useful traits, too. The key term, though, is "a certain degree". Over-the-top levels of these kinds of traits are not safe.
  17. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    oh, Insane Canafian, I agree. I dont trust any politicians. Each one must have a degree of narcissism to believe he or she is great enough to lead an entire country.

    But I do hope we get a candidate who at least behaves as if he is sane. I hope you get what I mean. His own party members are afraid of him...
  18. pasajes4

    pasajes4 Well-Known Member

    The Brits are considering another vote. This is a case of getting swept up in the hype and fear (understandable) without a clear understanding of the consequences. The press coverage of issues often fuel the masses. The press is notorious for slanting things in an inflammatory direction.
  19. Estherfromjerusalem

    Estherfromjerusalem Well-Known Member

    Forgive me all of you, but I find this thread offensive. For many many years I have kept quiet as people in my country have been murdered time and again by terrorists, but I have NEVER NEVER brought up that, or anything related to Judaism, or Islam, or Arabs and Israelis, in a post. The only time I did it was when I wrote a very long post after the Twin Towers terrorist attack (by Muslims, as it happens). Moderators, please close this thread before I explode!!! If the rules are no politics and no religion, then please stop this political thread quickly.

    And what has Brexit got to do with our difficult children?

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  20. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    ?? I thought the whole point of the Watercooler was to talk about things other than difficult children? I don't quite see how asking about American reactions to Brexit is directly political... maybe it is. Sorry you have been offended, Esther, but I am not sure you have reason to be?