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Bully problem, still!!
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 148251" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>I think that is perhaps the best option you could have taken, under the circumstances - to ask the school to 'sponsor' communication between you and the other parents.</p><p></p><p>On the subject of "what is truth?" I do understand that one. difficult child 3 has trouble understanding a situation in full. And while he can't lie, he can omit truth sometimes, although I've learnt how to question him. However, his belief about what happened isn't always accurate. I have since learned, though, to trust him a little more on this because my distrust of his version of events came from teachers who deliberately or accidentally 'reprogrammed' difficult child 3 with their own versions of what happened. difficult child 3 would come home a day or two after I'd expressed concern to the teachers and say, "I thought Jack had deliberately punched me, but Mr K explained that I misunderstood, and I must have just bumped my face on the door instead. He said that because of my autism I sometimes misunderstand. I didn't realise I could get it so wrong, though."</p><p></p><p>Soon after this, difficult child 3 stopped reporting problems to me.</p><p></p><p>What worked for me to get a better idea more impartially, of the truth - I cultivated 'spies' in the other kids. At no time did I ever mention any of these kids by name to anyone else so they were free to tell me what they observed without any reprisals from anyone (including bullies, or teachers). I cultivated a few different kids, so I could not only get different versions of the story, but also go to different kids for different events and 'spread the risk around'.</p><p></p><p>To cultivate the kids - I would chat to them as they walked past the gate, sometimes slip them a biscuit or piece of fruit, I would take an interest in them, talk to their families. I was often friends with their parents and would drop in on them informally to chat to the parents. These kids then began to look out for difficult child 3 because they had a better understanding (thanks to me being happy to answer their questions). I also found that doing extra-curricular stuff with these kids was a good ice-breaker. Reading to kids at the local library was a good one. Teaching a lunchtime chess class is another good one. Having older siblings of difficult child 3 involved in after-school things also helped because kids would tell THEM things. Teaching Sunday School - more kids from different grades.</p><p></p><p>If it meant I could get at least two independent eye witnesses to an event, I then felt on stronger ground when I came to deal with a problem. I was able to also convince difficult child 3 that I needed THE WHOLE TRUTH because I already knew more about it than he realised anyway. </p><p></p><p>The downside to this - it takes time, both to foster these spies and to also gather information about an incident. These kids are reluctant to take risks that could expose them to the bullies, plus if they don't get to talk to me until a few days later, I could act on false information in the meantime. But this for us has been what really opened my eyes to what was going on - difficult child 3's complaints alone were never given credence. While I might try and act on them alone, he would be discredited by teachers and the bullies (who often heard how the teachers' 'questioning' could confuse him and learned to take advantage of this).</p><p></p><p>When difficult child 3 was younger he would lash out at kids he felt were in his way or hurting him and was often misunderstanding (I witnessed these myself, this is not always based on what teachers told me). As he got older he learned to not react physically to his anger; we finally succeeded in drilling into him to not hit back. For a long time, though, he would hit back but only if he had been hit first. Knowing this gave me enough confidence to claim that he never threw the first punch. My spies confirmed this increasingly.</p><p></p><p>The teacher who had told the former bully's mother to press charges on difficult child 3, described him as a bully. I don't think that description was ever appropriate, even though there were times when it seemed difficult child 3 had made an unprovoked attack on another kid - for difficult child 3, there was always a reason based on self-defence. For the observers who felt there was insufficient reason or who didn't believe difficult child 3, or who thought he was dangerous - I can understand why they labelled him as a bully. It was never his aim to become a bully, although there were times when he did state an aim of wanting to grind a particular kid's head into the ground.</p><p></p><p>I strongly suspect your son, who may have been liberal with his fists in the past (or not) is really trying to be a good kid but is being provoked beyond endurance probably by a number of kids. The school's inability to deal with this pr prevent this, is only increasing their activities and making difficult child more frustrated and possible more distressed. Those good intentions and improvement won't last if this keeps up - but I think you know that.</p><p></p><p>Whatever your son did in the past should stay in the past - these incidents are new, each one is fresh, and each one is an attack on him. If your son is doing anything to provoke the attacks it could be as simple as him calling the other kid names, perhaps in an attempt to get the other kid to stay away.</p><p></p><p>There is no excuse for a kid hitting another kid. Being called names is no excuse. difficult child 3 has confessed to me when he's lost his temper and thrown stuff at another kid, but these days won't do it unless he's already been physically attacked, repeatedly. That last, nasty attack on difficult child 3 where they were throwing things at him (including a log which bloodied his head) was preceded by difficult child 3 saying to them, "Leave me alone." It took a lot of explaining to him that saying that DID NOT provoke them; he felt that because he had said, "Leave me alone," he had started it all. Not so. But his sense of personal responsibility has been so badly confused over the years, that he feels guilty for just being attacked!</p><p></p><p>Again, spies in other kids have confirmed our suspicions of what really goes on.</p><p></p><p>I hope the school can help you have a positive mediation session with any other parents involved. Bullying is far more than just a school issue, it is also a community issue and needs to be dealt with on both fronts, for it to succeed overall.</p><p></p><p>I think you're making the best start possible.</p><p></p><p>Good luck!</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 148251, member: 1991"] I think that is perhaps the best option you could have taken, under the circumstances - to ask the school to 'sponsor' communication between you and the other parents. On the subject of "what is truth?" I do understand that one. difficult child 3 has trouble understanding a situation in full. And while he can't lie, he can omit truth sometimes, although I've learnt how to question him. However, his belief about what happened isn't always accurate. I have since learned, though, to trust him a little more on this because my distrust of his version of events came from teachers who deliberately or accidentally 'reprogrammed' difficult child 3 with their own versions of what happened. difficult child 3 would come home a day or two after I'd expressed concern to the teachers and say, "I thought Jack had deliberately punched me, but Mr K explained that I misunderstood, and I must have just bumped my face on the door instead. He said that because of my autism I sometimes misunderstand. I didn't realise I could get it so wrong, though." Soon after this, difficult child 3 stopped reporting problems to me. What worked for me to get a better idea more impartially, of the truth - I cultivated 'spies' in the other kids. At no time did I ever mention any of these kids by name to anyone else so they were free to tell me what they observed without any reprisals from anyone (including bullies, or teachers). I cultivated a few different kids, so I could not only get different versions of the story, but also go to different kids for different events and 'spread the risk around'. To cultivate the kids - I would chat to them as they walked past the gate, sometimes slip them a biscuit or piece of fruit, I would take an interest in them, talk to their families. I was often friends with their parents and would drop in on them informally to chat to the parents. These kids then began to look out for difficult child 3 because they had a better understanding (thanks to me being happy to answer their questions). I also found that doing extra-curricular stuff with these kids was a good ice-breaker. Reading to kids at the local library was a good one. Teaching a lunchtime chess class is another good one. Having older siblings of difficult child 3 involved in after-school things also helped because kids would tell THEM things. Teaching Sunday School - more kids from different grades. If it meant I could get at least two independent eye witnesses to an event, I then felt on stronger ground when I came to deal with a problem. I was able to also convince difficult child 3 that I needed THE WHOLE TRUTH because I already knew more about it than he realised anyway. The downside to this - it takes time, both to foster these spies and to also gather information about an incident. These kids are reluctant to take risks that could expose them to the bullies, plus if they don't get to talk to me until a few days later, I could act on false information in the meantime. But this for us has been what really opened my eyes to what was going on - difficult child 3's complaints alone were never given credence. While I might try and act on them alone, he would be discredited by teachers and the bullies (who often heard how the teachers' 'questioning' could confuse him and learned to take advantage of this). When difficult child 3 was younger he would lash out at kids he felt were in his way or hurting him and was often misunderstanding (I witnessed these myself, this is not always based on what teachers told me). As he got older he learned to not react physically to his anger; we finally succeeded in drilling into him to not hit back. For a long time, though, he would hit back but only if he had been hit first. Knowing this gave me enough confidence to claim that he never threw the first punch. My spies confirmed this increasingly. The teacher who had told the former bully's mother to press charges on difficult child 3, described him as a bully. I don't think that description was ever appropriate, even though there were times when it seemed difficult child 3 had made an unprovoked attack on another kid - for difficult child 3, there was always a reason based on self-defence. For the observers who felt there was insufficient reason or who didn't believe difficult child 3, or who thought he was dangerous - I can understand why they labelled him as a bully. It was never his aim to become a bully, although there were times when he did state an aim of wanting to grind a particular kid's head into the ground. I strongly suspect your son, who may have been liberal with his fists in the past (or not) is really trying to be a good kid but is being provoked beyond endurance probably by a number of kids. The school's inability to deal with this pr prevent this, is only increasing their activities and making difficult child more frustrated and possible more distressed. Those good intentions and improvement won't last if this keeps up - but I think you know that. Whatever your son did in the past should stay in the past - these incidents are new, each one is fresh, and each one is an attack on him. If your son is doing anything to provoke the attacks it could be as simple as him calling the other kid names, perhaps in an attempt to get the other kid to stay away. There is no excuse for a kid hitting another kid. Being called names is no excuse. difficult child 3 has confessed to me when he's lost his temper and thrown stuff at another kid, but these days won't do it unless he's already been physically attacked, repeatedly. That last, nasty attack on difficult child 3 where they were throwing things at him (including a log which bloodied his head) was preceded by difficult child 3 saying to them, "Leave me alone." It took a lot of explaining to him that saying that DID NOT provoke them; he felt that because he had said, "Leave me alone," he had started it all. Not so. But his sense of personal responsibility has been so badly confused over the years, that he feels guilty for just being attacked! Again, spies in other kids have confirmed our suspicions of what really goes on. I hope the school can help you have a positive mediation session with any other parents involved. Bullying is far more than just a school issue, it is also a community issue and needs to be dealt with on both fronts, for it to succeed overall. I think you're making the best start possible. Good luck! Marg [/QUOTE]
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