Marguerite
Active Member
difficult child 1 has been trying for years to get an apprenticeship, with no real success. He's had apprenticeships dangled in front of him (in one case, for a year) but he's now too old for a standard placement. He was on the books of a job placement agency for people with disabilities. At one point they were sending him for at least two interviews a week. However, for reasons unknown and not forewarned, he fell off their books, apparently through changing regulations or our wonderful government welfare agency, Centrelink.
So we had to re-apply. This meant getting him referred from Centrelink, getting doctors reports, getting assessments etc. Since it was a re-application all of this should have been automatic.
In the process of organising re-application, we (family) found him a job. We really had to push hard - difficult child 1 had to initially work for nothing with absolutely no prospect of employment. I had to do a hard sell job - and at some stage they put him on the payroll despite initially saying they couldn't afford to give him an apprenticeship. But they CAN currently employ him as a labourer, it seems. And as it now turns out, if the disability agency had been involved difficult child 1 may have been able to get an apprenticeship with these people after all, through the Wage Assistance Scheme in which the difference in salary required for an apprenticeship is met by the government, as part of an initiative to boost the number of tradesmen as well as get people off the pension and into the workforce.
However - difficult child 1 still doesn't know what he's getting paid. Nor does he know his official commencement date. He's had no pay slips in the two months he's been working for these people. They told him that the person who organises pay slips was on leave, it would all be sorted out when they got back from leave.
Legally he is supposed to notify Centrelink within two weeks of beginning a job, of his start date, his hours and his wage. But we can't tell them what we don't know. Failure to tell them means some nasty penalties. So I rang to at least let them know he was working, they said to not worry too much but to get the info to them when we could. I have receipt numbers from all my calls, and they do not deny I have called them.
Yet now they're getting nasty. He got a letter from them telling him he pension payment had not only been stopped (which I had requested - any overpayment has to be paid back) but that they had cancelled ALL his entitlements as 'punishment' for failing to give them the information they wanted (it start date, hours worked, pay rate etc). They have even told him to tear up his concession card (which the law says he should be ale to use for the next year). They say he "failed to report" even though I told them as soon as I could (and they said at the time it was soon enough) and difficult child 1 himself has actually been in the Centrelink office since then, on a day off, with his disability agency caseworker (on their own time, desperately trying to sort out this mess).
So I rang up Centrelink. They said I have to get the info from the employer. Mind you, they have themselves sent letter to the employer asking for this information - so if they can't get it, why punish difficult child 1 & me?
Centrelink wants me to ring the employer, but I said it just doesn't look right when you're 24 and Mummy rings the boss to make this sort of enquiry. However, it IS what the disability agency are supposed to do - only Centrelink refuses to complete the application form. "Not until we get the information," they told us.
Centrelink insist that we must have the information, before they can let the disability agency back into difficult child 1's life. I say we can't get the information unless the disability agency can go into his workplace.
When I rang Centrelink about the "failure to report" I was told he had received a letter which stated dates on which he had to report. Any such letter was not recognised as such (by him or me; and it was allegedly intended for someone with a disability). I have asked for a copy to be sent.
I also pointed out that difficult child 1 himself was present in person in a Centrelink office on 26 May and was not told then about the "need to report" and was also not told of the impending cancellation (dated a little over a week later). I was told on 11 June that difficult child 1's presence in a Centrelink office did not constitute him "reporting". If this is the case, Centrelink's definition of "report" needs to be made more clear. I'm not exactly stupid - I didn't understand it, so how the H could difficult child 1 be expected to?
At that meeting in Centrelink at Caringbah on 26 May difficult child 1 WAS told that before he could go back onto the disability agency's books he had to do a Job Place Assessment. difficult child 1 said he was reluctant to do this, as it would jeopardise his current full-time job to take time off work to do an assessment to see if he was fit for the task he was currently doing. He felt it should be self-evident. Since then a Job Place Assessment was done with difficult child 1 over the phone in his lunch hour, as organised by the disability agency (despite him not being on their books). And yet I am getting conflicting information as to the validity of this method - it appears to have not been recognised on his Centrelink file.
We are stuck in a Catch 22 situation so today I rang my local MP (equivalent to congressman). This needs someone high up to unravel the Gordian knot of red tape and fast. Preferably before his wedding date of 22 November. It would be good if he had an apprenticeship by then - but this is only possible if he can get back onto the agency's books.
The chances are very high of someone like difficult child 1 needing ongoing support in the workplace to ensure he is not being exploited. The current difficulty in getting information about his hours and pay rate are a classic example. Even Centrelink has expressed concern that he may currently be in a position of being exploited, implying "what are we doing about it?" What I am doing about it, is trying to get things back to where they should be, so the relevant support agency can be permitted to do its job.
And now this is turning nastier. It is looking like Centrelink are trying to make this particular disability agency look really bad. difficult child 1's caseworker was with another client down at the local office when she overheard a loud conversation that was not only about difficult child 1, it mentioned him by name AND said that difficult child 1 had lost his pension and entitlements because the disability agency had tried to get him into the workforce when he just wasn't capable. This morning the boss of the disability agency rang me to discuss the problems. That is when she told me about the way difficult child 1's name was being loudly thrown around the Centrelink office along with negative gossip about their agency.
While we were talking, an email came in to her about difficult child 1's application to get back on the agency's files - it has been refused by Centrelink. Apparently when difficult child 1 and his disability agency caseworker were in the Centrelink office "to be seen" (apparently required as part of the procedure to put him back on the agency's books), the Centrelink staffer was trying to tell them that before they could put difficult child 1 back on the agency's books, difficult child 1 would have to do a Job Capacity Assessment.
"But I'm already working," he told them. "Working full-time - I can't take time off for a Job Capacity Assessment, I might lose my job. Why do I have to do one? If I'm already working, surely it's obvious that I can work?"
But the staffer was insistent, so difficult child 1 looked up his diary and told her when he next RDO would be. "I couldn't come in until then," he said. "Or I might lose my job."
And from what I was told - today's email is from the psychologist attached to the Job Capacity Assessment staff with Centrelink, saying that they were refusing difficult child 1's application to be put back on the disability agency's books, "because he clearly isn't interested in getting a job, since he was refusing to do a Job Capacity Assessment."
I was still talking to the agency boss when I remembered last night's mail - more official paperwork for difficult child 1 which he handed to me. I fetched it and read it out over the phone - it was an assessment form for difficult child 1 to fill in. HOw did he feel the job placement agency had done its job? Had they helped him with getting a job? Or were they no help at all?
So it's looking like someone at Centrelink is trying to shoot down difficult child 1's job placement agency, and they're using difficult child 1's files to do it with. Meanwhile they're really making a mess of his life and risking losing his job for him.
And also meanwhile - WE'RE concerned that difficult child 1's employer still hasn't given him any pay slips. Although it's possible they have, and difficult child 1 simply didn't know what it was. It was for this reason we registered him with this particular agency - because their supervision and support was supposed to be ongoing. So is his boss ripping him off? Is he even getting paid at all? Or is his boss a really nice bloke who is just useless with paperwork?
The only way to be sure, it to send in the disability agency as support. The employer knows about them and is expecting them.
So now things are a bad mess. difficult child 1 has a job (we hope). He is at least getting work experience. It is possible he's being exploited, but a more serious concern is that Centrelink are taking out their frustrations on difficult child 1. He has not only lost his pension, but also his concession card which pays for his medication. I had already asked for his pension payment to be suspended (since he was getting paid by his new boss - I think), but they're now acting like we were trying to steal from the government, and worse. They shouldn't have cancelled everything. AND they're publicly talking about him and his file by name, AND they're trying to get him to say bad things about his agency AND they are now blocking any chance he has of getting an apprenticeship.
By the time I got to talk to my MP, it was too late for anything to be done. I now have to wait until Monday before they can start kicking rear ends for us.
The agency boss is ready to rip Centrelink apart. When difficult child 1 finds out all this (because it's only today that we've begun to understand what is happening and why) then he will want to take the place apart too. And I'm in the queue now as well.
It is indeed fortunate that some time ago difficult child 1 authorised me to act on his behalf in communicating with Centrelink. Can you imagine how ANY difficult child would cope with this sort of rubbish?
What really amazes me, AND cheeses me off big time, is that Centrelink has ALL the information they need - they have more than I do. Centrelink has access to every bank account difficult child 1 has and know exactly how much money he has and ANY activity of every account, they have his tax file number (like social security number as far as employment and taxation goes), they have the information of every employer who asks for difficult child 1's tax file number (an indication that the person is working). They could look at his bank accounts and see if any regular payments are going in from anywhere, as well as track the bank accounts of the people putting money into his accounts. They can do this for anybody.
SO they MUST know he's working, even without me telling them. But because nobody has filled it out on a form, they are angry. One area wants to know details of his job; another group insists he's lazy and not interested in working. They say he "hasn't reported" when I've rung them repeatedly AND difficult child 1 has visited in person.
I'm just about ready to take the place apart. Centrelink, I mean. I AM going to request access to his file under Freedom of Information; I'm going to insist on an apology (to difficult child 1, to me and to the disability agency); I'm going to insist on SOMEONE getting difficult child 1 an apprenticeship with the full benefits of the wage Subsidy Scheme; I'm going to insist on difficult child 1's rights being restored. And if I can, I'm going to make this VERY, messily, public.
It takes a lot to get me this angry. It's really quite an achievement for Centrelink, that they have managed to get me this riled. But then, they have a lot of practice.
And in less than a year, difficult child 3 is eligible for a Disability Support Pension. Oh joy...
Marg
So we had to re-apply. This meant getting him referred from Centrelink, getting doctors reports, getting assessments etc. Since it was a re-application all of this should have been automatic.
In the process of organising re-application, we (family) found him a job. We really had to push hard - difficult child 1 had to initially work for nothing with absolutely no prospect of employment. I had to do a hard sell job - and at some stage they put him on the payroll despite initially saying they couldn't afford to give him an apprenticeship. But they CAN currently employ him as a labourer, it seems. And as it now turns out, if the disability agency had been involved difficult child 1 may have been able to get an apprenticeship with these people after all, through the Wage Assistance Scheme in which the difference in salary required for an apprenticeship is met by the government, as part of an initiative to boost the number of tradesmen as well as get people off the pension and into the workforce.
However - difficult child 1 still doesn't know what he's getting paid. Nor does he know his official commencement date. He's had no pay slips in the two months he's been working for these people. They told him that the person who organises pay slips was on leave, it would all be sorted out when they got back from leave.
Legally he is supposed to notify Centrelink within two weeks of beginning a job, of his start date, his hours and his wage. But we can't tell them what we don't know. Failure to tell them means some nasty penalties. So I rang to at least let them know he was working, they said to not worry too much but to get the info to them when we could. I have receipt numbers from all my calls, and they do not deny I have called them.
Yet now they're getting nasty. He got a letter from them telling him he pension payment had not only been stopped (which I had requested - any overpayment has to be paid back) but that they had cancelled ALL his entitlements as 'punishment' for failing to give them the information they wanted (it start date, hours worked, pay rate etc). They have even told him to tear up his concession card (which the law says he should be ale to use for the next year). They say he "failed to report" even though I told them as soon as I could (and they said at the time it was soon enough) and difficult child 1 himself has actually been in the Centrelink office since then, on a day off, with his disability agency caseworker (on their own time, desperately trying to sort out this mess).
So I rang up Centrelink. They said I have to get the info from the employer. Mind you, they have themselves sent letter to the employer asking for this information - so if they can't get it, why punish difficult child 1 & me?
Centrelink wants me to ring the employer, but I said it just doesn't look right when you're 24 and Mummy rings the boss to make this sort of enquiry. However, it IS what the disability agency are supposed to do - only Centrelink refuses to complete the application form. "Not until we get the information," they told us.
Centrelink insist that we must have the information, before they can let the disability agency back into difficult child 1's life. I say we can't get the information unless the disability agency can go into his workplace.
When I rang Centrelink about the "failure to report" I was told he had received a letter which stated dates on which he had to report. Any such letter was not recognised as such (by him or me; and it was allegedly intended for someone with a disability). I have asked for a copy to be sent.
I also pointed out that difficult child 1 himself was present in person in a Centrelink office on 26 May and was not told then about the "need to report" and was also not told of the impending cancellation (dated a little over a week later). I was told on 11 June that difficult child 1's presence in a Centrelink office did not constitute him "reporting". If this is the case, Centrelink's definition of "report" needs to be made more clear. I'm not exactly stupid - I didn't understand it, so how the H could difficult child 1 be expected to?
At that meeting in Centrelink at Caringbah on 26 May difficult child 1 WAS told that before he could go back onto the disability agency's books he had to do a Job Place Assessment. difficult child 1 said he was reluctant to do this, as it would jeopardise his current full-time job to take time off work to do an assessment to see if he was fit for the task he was currently doing. He felt it should be self-evident. Since then a Job Place Assessment was done with difficult child 1 over the phone in his lunch hour, as organised by the disability agency (despite him not being on their books). And yet I am getting conflicting information as to the validity of this method - it appears to have not been recognised on his Centrelink file.
We are stuck in a Catch 22 situation so today I rang my local MP (equivalent to congressman). This needs someone high up to unravel the Gordian knot of red tape and fast. Preferably before his wedding date of 22 November. It would be good if he had an apprenticeship by then - but this is only possible if he can get back onto the agency's books.
The chances are very high of someone like difficult child 1 needing ongoing support in the workplace to ensure he is not being exploited. The current difficulty in getting information about his hours and pay rate are a classic example. Even Centrelink has expressed concern that he may currently be in a position of being exploited, implying "what are we doing about it?" What I am doing about it, is trying to get things back to where they should be, so the relevant support agency can be permitted to do its job.
And now this is turning nastier. It is looking like Centrelink are trying to make this particular disability agency look really bad. difficult child 1's caseworker was with another client down at the local office when she overheard a loud conversation that was not only about difficult child 1, it mentioned him by name AND said that difficult child 1 had lost his pension and entitlements because the disability agency had tried to get him into the workforce when he just wasn't capable. This morning the boss of the disability agency rang me to discuss the problems. That is when she told me about the way difficult child 1's name was being loudly thrown around the Centrelink office along with negative gossip about their agency.
While we were talking, an email came in to her about difficult child 1's application to get back on the agency's files - it has been refused by Centrelink. Apparently when difficult child 1 and his disability agency caseworker were in the Centrelink office "to be seen" (apparently required as part of the procedure to put him back on the agency's books), the Centrelink staffer was trying to tell them that before they could put difficult child 1 back on the agency's books, difficult child 1 would have to do a Job Capacity Assessment.
"But I'm already working," he told them. "Working full-time - I can't take time off for a Job Capacity Assessment, I might lose my job. Why do I have to do one? If I'm already working, surely it's obvious that I can work?"
But the staffer was insistent, so difficult child 1 looked up his diary and told her when he next RDO would be. "I couldn't come in until then," he said. "Or I might lose my job."
And from what I was told - today's email is from the psychologist attached to the Job Capacity Assessment staff with Centrelink, saying that they were refusing difficult child 1's application to be put back on the disability agency's books, "because he clearly isn't interested in getting a job, since he was refusing to do a Job Capacity Assessment."
I was still talking to the agency boss when I remembered last night's mail - more official paperwork for difficult child 1 which he handed to me. I fetched it and read it out over the phone - it was an assessment form for difficult child 1 to fill in. HOw did he feel the job placement agency had done its job? Had they helped him with getting a job? Or were they no help at all?
So it's looking like someone at Centrelink is trying to shoot down difficult child 1's job placement agency, and they're using difficult child 1's files to do it with. Meanwhile they're really making a mess of his life and risking losing his job for him.
And also meanwhile - WE'RE concerned that difficult child 1's employer still hasn't given him any pay slips. Although it's possible they have, and difficult child 1 simply didn't know what it was. It was for this reason we registered him with this particular agency - because their supervision and support was supposed to be ongoing. So is his boss ripping him off? Is he even getting paid at all? Or is his boss a really nice bloke who is just useless with paperwork?
The only way to be sure, it to send in the disability agency as support. The employer knows about them and is expecting them.
So now things are a bad mess. difficult child 1 has a job (we hope). He is at least getting work experience. It is possible he's being exploited, but a more serious concern is that Centrelink are taking out their frustrations on difficult child 1. He has not only lost his pension, but also his concession card which pays for his medication. I had already asked for his pension payment to be suspended (since he was getting paid by his new boss - I think), but they're now acting like we were trying to steal from the government, and worse. They shouldn't have cancelled everything. AND they're publicly talking about him and his file by name, AND they're trying to get him to say bad things about his agency AND they are now blocking any chance he has of getting an apprenticeship.
By the time I got to talk to my MP, it was too late for anything to be done. I now have to wait until Monday before they can start kicking rear ends for us.
The agency boss is ready to rip Centrelink apart. When difficult child 1 finds out all this (because it's only today that we've begun to understand what is happening and why) then he will want to take the place apart too. And I'm in the queue now as well.
It is indeed fortunate that some time ago difficult child 1 authorised me to act on his behalf in communicating with Centrelink. Can you imagine how ANY difficult child would cope with this sort of rubbish?
What really amazes me, AND cheeses me off big time, is that Centrelink has ALL the information they need - they have more than I do. Centrelink has access to every bank account difficult child 1 has and know exactly how much money he has and ANY activity of every account, they have his tax file number (like social security number as far as employment and taxation goes), they have the information of every employer who asks for difficult child 1's tax file number (an indication that the person is working). They could look at his bank accounts and see if any regular payments are going in from anywhere, as well as track the bank accounts of the people putting money into his accounts. They can do this for anybody.
SO they MUST know he's working, even without me telling them. But because nobody has filled it out on a form, they are angry. One area wants to know details of his job; another group insists he's lazy and not interested in working. They say he "hasn't reported" when I've rung them repeatedly AND difficult child 1 has visited in person.
I'm just about ready to take the place apart. Centrelink, I mean. I AM going to request access to his file under Freedom of Information; I'm going to insist on an apology (to difficult child 1, to me and to the disability agency); I'm going to insist on SOMEONE getting difficult child 1 an apprenticeship with the full benefits of the wage Subsidy Scheme; I'm going to insist on difficult child 1's rights being restored. And if I can, I'm going to make this VERY, messily, public.
It takes a lot to get me this angry. It's really quite an achievement for Centrelink, that they have managed to get me this riled. But then, they have a lot of practice.
And in less than a year, difficult child 3 is eligible for a Disability Support Pension. Oh joy...
Marg