Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
New profile posts
Latest activity
Internet Search
Members
Current visitors
New profile posts
Search profile posts
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
Parent Support Forums
General Parenting
but...but...but...but...but
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 173318" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Heather, you said, "She just told me that the only time she cries is when she's been around me. I'm ready to pack her up and send her away."</p><p></p><p>What I'm seeing in all these posts - a pattern. You are beginning to react to what she says. This is then interpreted by her as you giving a tinker's cuss, and therefore justification for her to keep dumping more of her negativity onto you.</p><p></p><p>It's not good for either of you.</p><p></p><p>You are so right when you say she is negative. It really is negativity, it is also her fears of "I'm not good enough for the world," and "Nothing goes right in my life, I am a total failure at everything, and everything fails me."</p><p></p><p>difficult child 3 does similar things. He could be having quite a good day, but somewhere in there he has been keeping score of all the things that go wrong. For example, shopping around for a SD card for the computer game system (he uses it to store downloaded information and games). If the first shop he goes into, to find out what they've got and how much, just doesn't have any in stock, then it's his worst day ever and nothing is going right.</p><p>If at the end of the day he's checked ALL the shops and found that none have any in stock, then this compounds. Often we get tantrums with him raging at me about how unfair the world is and how everything in the universe is conspiring to make his life miserable.</p><p>This afternoon we bought a card, for a great price. Is it his happiest day ever? Nope. But at least he's not miserable. Not that the moment. But later on, something could make him miserable and again, it will be utter devastation to him.</p><p></p><p>When she says the universe is conspiring to make her life a misery, the best response (although it will often make their temper worse), is "Honey, the universe doesn't give a rats about you. You are just not that important to the universe. None of us are." Sometimes we just have to say it, take it out of Basket B and put it in Basket A.</p><p></p><p>As long as YOU are not the one getting in her way, as long as all you are doing is AGREEING that it doesn't seem fair, she can't attack you for stating the obvious.</p><p></p><p>At the moment, Heather, you seem to be trying to cope with her by refuting her arguments (even if it's only in your own head). And she keeps doing it. So either you're encouraging her, or making her more determined to convince you that her life is a toilet and will never improve from here.</p><p></p><p>So try this next time - agree with her. Yes, it's unfair. Yes, the universe is out to get her. Watch out, she runs a much higher risk than the rest of us, of being struck by meteors while sunbathing. "Yes, darling, you are important enough to the cosmos for it to deliberately conspire to cause pimples, to cause the colour pink to exist, to put a run in your stockings, to give you an unsympathetic mother. So, little darling, if the universe in all its grandeur is out to get you, what on earth do you expect your poor insignificant, uncaring mother to do about it?"</p><p></p><p>Agree with her, and take it even further. See what happens. Hopefully it will be like she has slammed her shoulder into a door, expecting it to be locked, just as you've thrown it open.</p><p></p><p>What you're waiting to hear from her is, "Oh, I wouldn't go THAT far..."</p><p></p><p>There are several aims to this exercise.</p><p></p><p>1) To have her off-balance.</p><p></p><p>2) To break the current pattern of her saying, "It's black," and you saying, "It's white."</p><p></p><p>3) To help you feel more relaxed and to not engage in her determination to make you as miserable as she feels she is.</p><p></p><p>4) To maybe snap her back to some sense of balance in realty.</p><p></p><p>I know Dr Phil is not always popular on this site, but something I saw the other day was useful. (remember, our episodes' programming bear little connection to when they air elsewhere in the world). </p><p>A family were feuding, and everyone was blaming ONE person. "It's all HER fault. She's a destroyer. She's evil personified. It's utter catastrophe. It's ghastly. It's horrifying. She is the devil incarnate. She's a psychopath. When I received her note I felt utterly devastated, run through the heart."</p><p>Dr Phil made the point that the REACTION to this person (whether justified or not) was way over the top. He said, "I've come form the hospital where I'm working with a six year old kid with severe burns. Now THAT's horrifying. This conflict between you - it doesn't even come close."</p><p></p><p>Next time she tries to engage you in the wee small hours, hold up your hand and say, "Stop. Is this so earth-shattering that it must be discussed now? Is there anything in what you want to say, that will no longer be valid in the morning? For example, is the house on fire? Is Paul Revere riding down the main street calling out a warning? Is there an air raid? NO? In which case, wait until I've had my sleep. Anything you try to discuss now, unless it fits into those categories already mentioned, will not be heard. If you MUST talk, call the 24 hour counselling line." [We have Lifeline here in Sydney, 24/7 counsellors available over the phone. I freely admit to having rung them.]</p><p></p><p>I am aware that our kids have a burning need to express every thought that crosses their brain. There is a fear that if they don't say it, they will forget it and that would be a potential disaster. Maybe it's a sense of dread that something bad is going to happen and if they don't share every possible thought that could be connected with this sense of dread, they will fail to have adequately warned us. </p><p></p><p>easy child 2/difficult child 2 is a shocker with this. difficult child 3 is at least beginning to be moderately reasonable, but his older sister - constantly using sarcasm, a superior attitude, nagging and nitpicking to ram her point home regardless of anything I might have to say.</p><p></p><p>Something I have had to do at times - if she MUST talk, I set a time limit. I ask her how long she feels she needs to say what needs to be said. Then I set the oven timer and sit back and wait for her to finish. I do not interrupt, although I might take notes.</p><p></p><p>When she is finished, it's my turn. I re-set the oven timer. I speak (no interruptions please; I did not interrupt you) and calmly answer her points. If I feel she has a valid concern, I say so. </p><p></p><p>Once we've both said what has to be said, the discussion is over. </p><p></p><p>And we ONLY do this if we have the time to do so. If she says, "I MUST talk to you about this now," and tells me when I ask, that it will take her ten minutes, and I haven't GOT ten minutes, I tell her that we ned to postpone it until I DO have ten minutes (20 minutes, actually, for my response to be included).</p><p></p><p>What our kids do, is they go round and round. Over and over. If they're feeling really upset about something and telling us once hasn't got it sufficiently out of their systems, they will tell us again. And again.</p><p></p><p>A big clue that this is happening, is when you say to them, "Yes dear, you already told me that," and her response is, "But you didn't seem to notice what I said!" or "You obviously weren't listening to me!"</p><p></p><p>That sense of not being heard is actually her feelings still being outraged at life's unfairness, and those feelings not being completely dissipated by dumping on you.</p><p></p><p>It's a lesson that needs to be learned through experience. Setting time limits is one way. Agreeing beforehand to stop when we hear repetitions is another, but she has to have the maturity to agree to this and accept it. Probably not ready yet.</p><p></p><p>ANd that sentence of yours that I quoted at the beginning of my post - if she cries because she has been talking to you (and I think this is maybe because she is trying to share her very negative feelings with you, in the hope of making them go away; which they won't, if she isn't fixing the problems herself) - that sentence can be turned back onto her. "Gee, honey - we are so much alike! The only time I cry these days, is after you've been talking to me. Maybe I could run away instead? Hmm, yes, I think I'd like that. No meals to cook, no laundry to do, no carting kids here or there... I just have to remember to pack a couple of good books to read and my fluffy slippers."</p><p></p><p>Good luck. </p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 173318, member: 1991"] Heather, you said, "She just told me that the only time she cries is when she's been around me. I'm ready to pack her up and send her away." What I'm seeing in all these posts - a pattern. You are beginning to react to what she says. This is then interpreted by her as you giving a tinker's cuss, and therefore justification for her to keep dumping more of her negativity onto you. It's not good for either of you. You are so right when you say she is negative. It really is negativity, it is also her fears of "I'm not good enough for the world," and "Nothing goes right in my life, I am a total failure at everything, and everything fails me." difficult child 3 does similar things. He could be having quite a good day, but somewhere in there he has been keeping score of all the things that go wrong. For example, shopping around for a SD card for the computer game system (he uses it to store downloaded information and games). If the first shop he goes into, to find out what they've got and how much, just doesn't have any in stock, then it's his worst day ever and nothing is going right. If at the end of the day he's checked ALL the shops and found that none have any in stock, then this compounds. Often we get tantrums with him raging at me about how unfair the world is and how everything in the universe is conspiring to make his life miserable. This afternoon we bought a card, for a great price. Is it his happiest day ever? Nope. But at least he's not miserable. Not that the moment. But later on, something could make him miserable and again, it will be utter devastation to him. When she says the universe is conspiring to make her life a misery, the best response (although it will often make their temper worse), is "Honey, the universe doesn't give a rats about you. You are just not that important to the universe. None of us are." Sometimes we just have to say it, take it out of Basket B and put it in Basket A. As long as YOU are not the one getting in her way, as long as all you are doing is AGREEING that it doesn't seem fair, she can't attack you for stating the obvious. At the moment, Heather, you seem to be trying to cope with her by refuting her arguments (even if it's only in your own head). And she keeps doing it. So either you're encouraging her, or making her more determined to convince you that her life is a toilet and will never improve from here. So try this next time - agree with her. Yes, it's unfair. Yes, the universe is out to get her. Watch out, she runs a much higher risk than the rest of us, of being struck by meteors while sunbathing. "Yes, darling, you are important enough to the cosmos for it to deliberately conspire to cause pimples, to cause the colour pink to exist, to put a run in your stockings, to give you an unsympathetic mother. So, little darling, if the universe in all its grandeur is out to get you, what on earth do you expect your poor insignificant, uncaring mother to do about it?" Agree with her, and take it even further. See what happens. Hopefully it will be like she has slammed her shoulder into a door, expecting it to be locked, just as you've thrown it open. What you're waiting to hear from her is, "Oh, I wouldn't go THAT far..." There are several aims to this exercise. 1) To have her off-balance. 2) To break the current pattern of her saying, "It's black," and you saying, "It's white." 3) To help you feel more relaxed and to not engage in her determination to make you as miserable as she feels she is. 4) To maybe snap her back to some sense of balance in realty. I know Dr Phil is not always popular on this site, but something I saw the other day was useful. (remember, our episodes' programming bear little connection to when they air elsewhere in the world). A family were feuding, and everyone was blaming ONE person. "It's all HER fault. She's a destroyer. She's evil personified. It's utter catastrophe. It's ghastly. It's horrifying. She is the devil incarnate. She's a psychopath. When I received her note I felt utterly devastated, run through the heart." Dr Phil made the point that the REACTION to this person (whether justified or not) was way over the top. He said, "I've come form the hospital where I'm working with a six year old kid with severe burns. Now THAT's horrifying. This conflict between you - it doesn't even come close." Next time she tries to engage you in the wee small hours, hold up your hand and say, "Stop. Is this so earth-shattering that it must be discussed now? Is there anything in what you want to say, that will no longer be valid in the morning? For example, is the house on fire? Is Paul Revere riding down the main street calling out a warning? Is there an air raid? NO? In which case, wait until I've had my sleep. Anything you try to discuss now, unless it fits into those categories already mentioned, will not be heard. If you MUST talk, call the 24 hour counselling line." [We have Lifeline here in Sydney, 24/7 counsellors available over the phone. I freely admit to having rung them.] I am aware that our kids have a burning need to express every thought that crosses their brain. There is a fear that if they don't say it, they will forget it and that would be a potential disaster. Maybe it's a sense of dread that something bad is going to happen and if they don't share every possible thought that could be connected with this sense of dread, they will fail to have adequately warned us. easy child 2/difficult child 2 is a shocker with this. difficult child 3 is at least beginning to be moderately reasonable, but his older sister - constantly using sarcasm, a superior attitude, nagging and nitpicking to ram her point home regardless of anything I might have to say. Something I have had to do at times - if she MUST talk, I set a time limit. I ask her how long she feels she needs to say what needs to be said. Then I set the oven timer and sit back and wait for her to finish. I do not interrupt, although I might take notes. When she is finished, it's my turn. I re-set the oven timer. I speak (no interruptions please; I did not interrupt you) and calmly answer her points. If I feel she has a valid concern, I say so. Once we've both said what has to be said, the discussion is over. And we ONLY do this if we have the time to do so. If she says, "I MUST talk to you about this now," and tells me when I ask, that it will take her ten minutes, and I haven't GOT ten minutes, I tell her that we ned to postpone it until I DO have ten minutes (20 minutes, actually, for my response to be included). What our kids do, is they go round and round. Over and over. If they're feeling really upset about something and telling us once hasn't got it sufficiently out of their systems, they will tell us again. And again. A big clue that this is happening, is when you say to them, "Yes dear, you already told me that," and her response is, "But you didn't seem to notice what I said!" or "You obviously weren't listening to me!" That sense of not being heard is actually her feelings still being outraged at life's unfairness, and those feelings not being completely dissipated by dumping on you. It's a lesson that needs to be learned through experience. Setting time limits is one way. Agreeing beforehand to stop when we hear repetitions is another, but she has to have the maturity to agree to this and accept it. Probably not ready yet. ANd that sentence of yours that I quoted at the beginning of my post - if she cries because she has been talking to you (and I think this is maybe because she is trying to share her very negative feelings with you, in the hope of making them go away; which they won't, if she isn't fixing the problems herself) - that sentence can be turned back onto her. "Gee, honey - we are so much alike! The only time I cry these days, is after you've been talking to me. Maybe I could run away instead? Hmm, yes, I think I'd like that. No meals to cook, no laundry to do, no carting kids here or there... I just have to remember to pack a couple of good books to read and my fluffy slippers." Good luck. Marg [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Parent Support Forums
General Parenting
but...but...but...but...but
Top