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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 173616" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>I remember when easy child 2/difficult child 2 was a toddler, she had me exhausted and shell-shocked. At the time I was also a volunteer telephone counsellor, with calls diverted to my home phone. One particular client was very needy and (from what I worked out later) narcissistic plus Munchhausen's. This client was an extreme emotional drain, and then I'd get off the phone (eventually) to have to deal with a toddler who used the same tone of voice and air of disapproval. Once I realised I was in the firing line form all directions and it felt like I was trapped by this attitude (from the client as well as the baby) I shut off contact and changed direction. I cancelled the counselling (palmed it all onto someone else and began monitoring my calls) and focussed more on easy child 2/difficult child 2, to try to prevent her responses from going down that destructive path. </p><p></p><p>I found at that point that easy child 2/difficult child 2 was VERY demanding and also very rigid in her views. But keeping her busy seemed to help and it bought me time to mentally re-group so I could begin to recharge my batteries.</p><p></p><p>The self-defeat and then the corresponding ducking out of personal responsibility for it, sounds to me the most exhausting for you. But she is going to continue to do this, because it is working for her. She's following the "a problem shared is a problem halved" routine, totally uncaring that in actual fact, a problem shared just means two people are now worrying, often even more.</p><p></p><p>She is still being the selfish baby, complaining that things are not exactly perfect and 100&#37; fit to what she wants, and then expecting/demanding YOU make it all better. She is looking to Mummy to fix everything and make all her problems go away.</p><p></p><p>And it's not working. Of course it's not - because life isn't like that. A big part of her problem is she is refusing to see this, and is becoming increasingly blinkered in her approach to life, in order to avoid having to see that she is now personally responsible.</p><p></p><p>Before you can help her, you need to help yourself and get your own emotional strength back. From there, you can begin to help her (but NOT by fixing it, from here on you have to work towards showing HER how to fix it for herself).</p><p></p><p>A starting point - when she is dumping on you (at a time when you are ready to hear it) begin making a list of the salient points. If you can, keep her moving on to the next point. If she accuses you of scribbling on paper instead of listening, then read back what you have by saying, "Just let e check the list with you so far - you've said you are concerned about X, Y and Z. Have I got it right, or do I need to add a bit more? Now, what else is on the agenda?"</p><p></p><p>Once you have the list, you workshop together on how to get things sorted. Maybe it's a priority - Y has to be done before X, because X requires paperwork form Y's completion in order to get started.</p><p></p><p>Develop a flow chart of what to do, and when. Talk to her about it. Ask if there's anything missing that needs to be included. Then the next step is to put things in motion. This is where it gets difficult - the first step that difficult child has to take, is the scariest. And it IS permissible for you to help at this point. If the first step is to telephone a counsellor or the doctor, then YOU do it but with her in the room. After all, if you're doing something on her behalf, she should at least show you the courtesy of sticking around to make sure you get across all her concerns.</p><p>And then if the person wants to check something with difficult child herself, you can quickly hand over the phone while they do so.</p><p></p><p>Once the first phone call is done, you can then cross that task off the list with a flourish. Add anything else that needs to be done. Put dates in there, so you both know when something has to be done by.</p><p></p><p>You see why I feel you need to re-charge your batteries before you undertake this.</p><p></p><p>But once you get started on this route, it does get a bit easier.</p><p></p><p>easy child 2/difficult child 2 was hurting at me about how her lecturers didn't understand, they kept asking for X from her and they should KNOW that her disability prevents this. Surely this is discriminatory? She would wail at me, keep bringing the subject up, cry at me, run off in a tantrum, I was feeling battered emotionally by it all. But easy child 2/difficult child 2, although talking at me, refused to talk to her lecturers or her counsellor, who SHOULD have been getting all this. Instead, I was getting phone calls form the lecturers that easy child 2/difficult child 2 refused to return. The situation was getting more urgent which was making easy child 2/difficult child 2 more anxious and more panicked, and more tearful etc.</p><p></p><p>So I took notes, then I ran the list past her. Yes, I'd got it in a nutshell. I then asked, "Shall I telephone the counselling unit?"</p><p>She didn't want to talk to the counsellor herself, because she knew she would cry. But she listened in while I talked (from my notes) and when I finished the call, she gave me a hug and said I had got it exactly right.</p><p></p><p>The following week her lecturers talked to her after class and said they'd heard from the counsellor, and as a result they'd made modifications to their requirements for her, to take her disability into account.</p><p></p><p>easy child 2/difficult child 2 could have sorted her problems quickly by communicating with the right people. Instead, she "communicated" with me, wasting time and opportunity and not meeting her own responsibilities in the matter.</p><p></p><p>I threw it back to where it was supposed to go and started the process off to have it back in her hands again. Her stress levels dropped to the point where she has taken on more personal responsibility and coped better.</p><p></p><p>They are a real headache when they do this and it's a vicious circle when you get stuck in their loop. But someone has to break the cycle and step out of the loop, before beginning the process to put things back in their proper sequence.</p><p></p><p>Heather, somehow you need time out from this process. If you can't begin the process I suggested, then can you talk to difficult child and ask for a moratorium period? "I will try to help you find some practical solutions to all this, but you need to give me space on this topic for a while. How long can you agree to give me?"</p><p></p><p>Here's hoping something can work here.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 173616, member: 1991"] I remember when easy child 2/difficult child 2 was a toddler, she had me exhausted and shell-shocked. At the time I was also a volunteer telephone counsellor, with calls diverted to my home phone. One particular client was very needy and (from what I worked out later) narcissistic plus Munchhausen's. This client was an extreme emotional drain, and then I'd get off the phone (eventually) to have to deal with a toddler who used the same tone of voice and air of disapproval. Once I realised I was in the firing line form all directions and it felt like I was trapped by this attitude (from the client as well as the baby) I shut off contact and changed direction. I cancelled the counselling (palmed it all onto someone else and began monitoring my calls) and focussed more on easy child 2/difficult child 2, to try to prevent her responses from going down that destructive path. I found at that point that easy child 2/difficult child 2 was VERY demanding and also very rigid in her views. But keeping her busy seemed to help and it bought me time to mentally re-group so I could begin to recharge my batteries. The self-defeat and then the corresponding ducking out of personal responsibility for it, sounds to me the most exhausting for you. But she is going to continue to do this, because it is working for her. She's following the "a problem shared is a problem halved" routine, totally uncaring that in actual fact, a problem shared just means two people are now worrying, often even more. She is still being the selfish baby, complaining that things are not exactly perfect and 100% fit to what she wants, and then expecting/demanding YOU make it all better. She is looking to Mummy to fix everything and make all her problems go away. And it's not working. Of course it's not - because life isn't like that. A big part of her problem is she is refusing to see this, and is becoming increasingly blinkered in her approach to life, in order to avoid having to see that she is now personally responsible. Before you can help her, you need to help yourself and get your own emotional strength back. From there, you can begin to help her (but NOT by fixing it, from here on you have to work towards showing HER how to fix it for herself). A starting point - when she is dumping on you (at a time when you are ready to hear it) begin making a list of the salient points. If you can, keep her moving on to the next point. If she accuses you of scribbling on paper instead of listening, then read back what you have by saying, "Just let e check the list with you so far - you've said you are concerned about X, Y and Z. Have I got it right, or do I need to add a bit more? Now, what else is on the agenda?" Once you have the list, you workshop together on how to get things sorted. Maybe it's a priority - Y has to be done before X, because X requires paperwork form Y's completion in order to get started. Develop a flow chart of what to do, and when. Talk to her about it. Ask if there's anything missing that needs to be included. Then the next step is to put things in motion. This is where it gets difficult - the first step that difficult child has to take, is the scariest. And it IS permissible for you to help at this point. If the first step is to telephone a counsellor or the doctor, then YOU do it but with her in the room. After all, if you're doing something on her behalf, she should at least show you the courtesy of sticking around to make sure you get across all her concerns. And then if the person wants to check something with difficult child herself, you can quickly hand over the phone while they do so. Once the first phone call is done, you can then cross that task off the list with a flourish. Add anything else that needs to be done. Put dates in there, so you both know when something has to be done by. You see why I feel you need to re-charge your batteries before you undertake this. But once you get started on this route, it does get a bit easier. easy child 2/difficult child 2 was hurting at me about how her lecturers didn't understand, they kept asking for X from her and they should KNOW that her disability prevents this. Surely this is discriminatory? She would wail at me, keep bringing the subject up, cry at me, run off in a tantrum, I was feeling battered emotionally by it all. But easy child 2/difficult child 2, although talking at me, refused to talk to her lecturers or her counsellor, who SHOULD have been getting all this. Instead, I was getting phone calls form the lecturers that easy child 2/difficult child 2 refused to return. The situation was getting more urgent which was making easy child 2/difficult child 2 more anxious and more panicked, and more tearful etc. So I took notes, then I ran the list past her. Yes, I'd got it in a nutshell. I then asked, "Shall I telephone the counselling unit?" She didn't want to talk to the counsellor herself, because she knew she would cry. But she listened in while I talked (from my notes) and when I finished the call, she gave me a hug and said I had got it exactly right. The following week her lecturers talked to her after class and said they'd heard from the counsellor, and as a result they'd made modifications to their requirements for her, to take her disability into account. easy child 2/difficult child 2 could have sorted her problems quickly by communicating with the right people. Instead, she "communicated" with me, wasting time and opportunity and not meeting her own responsibilities in the matter. I threw it back to where it was supposed to go and started the process off to have it back in her hands again. Her stress levels dropped to the point where she has taken on more personal responsibility and coped better. They are a real headache when they do this and it's a vicious circle when you get stuck in their loop. But someone has to break the cycle and step out of the loop, before beginning the process to put things back in their proper sequence. Heather, somehow you need time out from this process. If you can't begin the process I suggested, then can you talk to difficult child and ask for a moratorium period? "I will try to help you find some practical solutions to all this, but you need to give me space on this topic for a while. How long can you agree to give me?" Here's hoping something can work here. Marg [/QUOTE]
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