amazeofgrace
A maze of Grace - that about sums it up
security
bye bye BA
- Thread starter amazeofgrace
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amazeofgrace
A maze of Grace - that about sums it up
agreed everyone is an expert but I gave birth to them, does this not count for anything?
klmno
Active Member
This is exactly why I cringe at the thought of "help" from public agency people. My limited past experience has always been blaming me, kicking the ball back in my court, yet not even being consistent with what they think I should be doing. So, I figure if it is me that is supposed to handle it all, then I will make the decisions on how and they can just stay out of my life. I know- very negative attitude toward it. But really, if it is all up to me and this is all they can do, then they aren't helping and I don't have time for it. I'm too busy "taking control".
I think it may have been from this board about the end of April that I picked up on the "Call the police. You need to show your difficult child's that you do have back-up." (not sure who the thread was on if it was from this forum). I know that my easy child thinks that I am the most stupid idiotic person ever placed on this earth and how she ever survives my decisions is beyond her. She so disrespects me so I think it is great for her to hear from other people exactly what I say. She will not listen to me but she will listen to other adults.
Your difficult child's are being normal kids in the disrepect department. They need to know that when there is abuse, they get in legal trouble just like anyone else who is abusive - that means the police. You can show your strength by calling in help when needed. You are the expert in your child. You know when they are about to or have crossed the line. You know when they are beyond hearing your directions. You know that at that point they need help getting back to reality and you refuse to let them flounder on their own while raging on you or someone else because you know someone will be hurt if it is not ended ASAP.
The "team" have to know how difficult it is to make a call to the police. It is not something you would do lightly - they need to respect your knowledge of your kids and your call for help.
You may want to write down the steps of each difficult children's anger - what may trigger it if known, what the warning signs are for difficult child and for you, what happens before the abuse starts. Go over it with each difficult child and mark where you are going to call the police. Tell them that as a family they need to find a way to work through their anger without hurting anyone (use your words - use appropriate words). Present this to them at a time when everyone is calm and open for a peaceful discussion.
Hang in there - you are doing a great job - I know I am learning a lot from you in preparation of a time I may find myself in your footsteps.
Your difficult child's are being normal kids in the disrepect department. They need to know that when there is abuse, they get in legal trouble just like anyone else who is abusive - that means the police. You can show your strength by calling in help when needed. You are the expert in your child. You know when they are about to or have crossed the line. You know when they are beyond hearing your directions. You know that at that point they need help getting back to reality and you refuse to let them flounder on their own while raging on you or someone else because you know someone will be hurt if it is not ended ASAP.
The "team" have to know how difficult it is to make a call to the police. It is not something you would do lightly - they need to respect your knowledge of your kids and your call for help.
You may want to write down the steps of each difficult children's anger - what may trigger it if known, what the warning signs are for difficult child and for you, what happens before the abuse starts. Go over it with each difficult child and mark where you are going to call the police. Tell them that as a family they need to find a way to work through their anger without hurting anyone (use your words - use appropriate words). Present this to them at a time when everyone is calm and open for a peaceful discussion.
Hang in there - you are doing a great job - I know I am learning a lot from you in preparation of a time I may find myself in your footsteps.
Think twice about calling police, especially if you have almost full grown boys. And while you're at it, ask those who tell you to call the police exactly what they think the police are going to do. (My question was always, "And then what?" when people advised me to call the police.) Police are not mental health workers except by default. Or at least they aren't suppose to be. All the police have to work with is fear and physical dominance. If your child has complete control over his behavior, that could work. If your child has a neurobiological conditions which interferes with the way his brain works, it won't help a bit.
When grown boys and men exhibit violent behavior they sometimes get shot by police.
If your child is arrested, you risk losing control of medical and residence decisions. The juvenile justice system could take control of your child's care but the emphasis won't be on medical care, it will be on punishment. And you will have no say about his medical care.
If the juvenile justice system has the answers for how to fix kids whose brains are malfunctioning, I assure you they would share that information with those who are suppose to be treating these kids. The juvenile system has no secrets on how to make our children's brains work right.
When grown boys and men exhibit violent behavior they sometimes get shot by police.
If your child is arrested, you risk losing control of medical and residence decisions. The juvenile justice system could take control of your child's care but the emphasis won't be on medical care, it will be on punishment. And you will have no say about his medical care.
If the juvenile justice system has the answers for how to fix kids whose brains are malfunctioning, I assure you they would share that information with those who are suppose to be treating these kids. The juvenile system has no secrets on how to make our children's brains work right.
klmno
Active Member
I second Sara on that. With some kids, that works fine, but with others it does not. One of our first counselors said "call the police" to every thing I told him about difficult child that seemed out of the norm to me. I wish I had never done it. And, I wish I had expected more out of a counselor- like WHO is supposed to help fix things when it isn't all intentional bad behavior.
My son is sitting in juvie right now. Not because I called police- but because he has a label. I can't begin to tell you what happens once the kid is in this situation. It doesn't matter what other issues are going on- they do not see that the mental disorder HAS to be treated first, or at least concurrently. We are lucky- they are letting me check difficult child out to go see psychiatrist. That is the extent of his mental health care and if she doesn't release him from juvie soon, even that will end.
My son is sitting in juvie right now. Not because I called police- but because he has a label. I can't begin to tell you what happens once the kid is in this situation. It doesn't matter what other issues are going on- they do not see that the mental disorder HAS to be treated first, or at least concurrently. We are lucky- they are letting me check difficult child out to go see psychiatrist. That is the extent of his mental health care and if she doesn't release him from juvie soon, even that will end.
klmno
Active Member
PS- It is us that has to educate the legal authorities- just like we end up advocating for our kids at school. I made the mistake of sitting there thinking they would have resources and knowledge and other help for difficult child and me- now I find myself testifying in court trying to explain to them that they don't get "cured" that fast.
Notice, I stated that calling the police would not be a light decision. I don't think AOG would call them at the drop of the hat but I do think this needs to be a tool for her safety. AOG, you need to decide how much abuse you are willing to take. If your boys do become physical, what is to stop them from placing you in the hospital and then what will happen to them? I want you to be safe.
I would think the police would help in keeping family members safe in a rage. Check the laws in your state/county/city, it may be that difficult child can not be arrested if you do not press charges. Maybe talking to someone in the police department to see what the procedure is in your town. Is there a mental health assessment within that procedure? Would they honor your request for an ER visit to evaluate current mental health issues?
AOG, what happens when difficult child gets violent? Do you look at a medication change again? Is it getting worse? I have a feeling that for now you are feeling comfortable about your own safety, but if you start fearing for your own safety, I would decide how much you are willing to take.
It is good that you are getting input on both sides so that you can think about what you really want to do. My vote is to make sure you stay safe. Only you know when your safety is truly in question. As long as you and both boys are safe, continue as you are.
I would think the police would help in keeping family members safe in a rage. Check the laws in your state/county/city, it may be that difficult child can not be arrested if you do not press charges. Maybe talking to someone in the police department to see what the procedure is in your town. Is there a mental health assessment within that procedure? Would they honor your request for an ER visit to evaluate current mental health issues?
AOG, what happens when difficult child gets violent? Do you look at a medication change again? Is it getting worse? I have a feeling that for now you are feeling comfortable about your own safety, but if you start fearing for your own safety, I would decide how much you are willing to take.
It is good that you are getting input on both sides so that you can think about what you really want to do. My vote is to make sure you stay safe. Only you know when your safety is truly in question. As long as you and both boys are safe, continue as you are.
klmno
Active Member
Just my 2 cents worth here- again- (sorry) If safety (anyone's) is a concern, definitely call 911 but ask for transportation to ER. There will still be a report from police because they will show up and there will still be some kind of consequence for difficult child- maybe not a police charge, but hours in an er explaining himself. If he is truly a threat/danger, maybe the psychiatric hospital is where he needs to be.
It's such a tough situation. I am just starting to discover this as my son is almost 10 and getting bigger and stronger. I agree totally with what Sara and Klmno are saying about the police not being equipped to deal with mental illness but on the other side, when you are being attacked by an unstable individual who can hurt you, what do you do? Calling for an ambulance is one thing but if the person is still unsatble then they will call the police to provide transport. I tried caling our mobile crisis once while my husband was restraining my son who was trying to hurt him by any means possible and they responded that they would get there some time that evening (this was 2:00 in the afternoon) and couldn't really say when. They suggested calling 911.
In a perfect world, the people in authority would be better educated on mental illness. But since this is not the case, we are placed the difficult position of fending for ourselves far too often.
In a perfect world, the people in authority would be better educated on mental illness. But since this is not the case, we are placed the difficult position of fending for ourselves far too often.
FlowerGarden
Active Member
I'm not sure of the ages of your children. We never called the police until our difficult child was in high school. It was at the advice of his psychiatrist and the therapist we had said the same thing.
We've called the police saying we needed someone to help calm him down and we called to say that we needed to get him to the ER. At times, he even called the police himself! Twice when called to get him to the ER, he wound up getting arrested.
Finally the last arrest and hospitalization helped us. He made progress with the psychiatrist there, got registered with the state for mental health help and got put on probation.
Having to see him stand in front of the judge is heartbreaking but he is following the judge's orders. It is no longer OUR orders, it takes the blame off us.
I've been told by several doctors & hospital staff that the state of NJ is the worst state to try to get mental health help for an adolescent. There are so many rules and regulations that actual put the kids in charge of their own mental health. There are actually kids on waiting lists. It took many years for us to get results from the system.
Luckily for us, we are finally in the position of having the NJ mental health system going our way.
Calling the police is a hard decision.
Wishing you the strength you need to figure out what is best for your children.
We've called the police saying we needed someone to help calm him down and we called to say that we needed to get him to the ER. At times, he even called the police himself! Twice when called to get him to the ER, he wound up getting arrested.
Finally the last arrest and hospitalization helped us. He made progress with the psychiatrist there, got registered with the state for mental health help and got put on probation.
Having to see him stand in front of the judge is heartbreaking but he is following the judge's orders. It is no longer OUR orders, it takes the blame off us.
I've been told by several doctors & hospital staff that the state of NJ is the worst state to try to get mental health help for an adolescent. There are so many rules and regulations that actual put the kids in charge of their own mental health. There are actually kids on waiting lists. It took many years for us to get results from the system.
Luckily for us, we are finally in the position of having the NJ mental health system going our way.
Calling the police is a hard decision.
Wishing you the strength you need to figure out what is best for your children.
