Can someone give me more info on NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD)?

Discussion in 'Special Ed 101' started by Lothlorien, Mar 5, 2012.

  1. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

    Got the IEP evaluation papers over the weekend. Repeatedly, the papers say there is a discrepancy between her "cognitive ability and her verbal reasoning versus her nonverbal reasoning abilities." Processing spatial relationships is a problem (I'm paraphrasing). Isn't that basically what a NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD) is? I questioned this as a possibility with the school in 2010, but the CST didn't even know what NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD) was (pathetic huh?).

    We've been told repeatedly (we also see it) that she has Aspie traits, but is not Aspberger's. Isn't there a crossover there or something?

    IEP meeting is next week. I'm hoping she get into an in-class support classroom.
  2. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Yes, nlvd presents functionally for many as a person with Asperger's might. Especially the social challenges.
  3. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Let's see... there's Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified... where they don't quite fit any other label but have enough going on, or there's "clinically significant findings but fails to meet diagnostic cut-offs" - proof of certain traits, but not enough traits for a label.

    Fav. therapist said... part of the problem with these kinds of dxes is that they are just drawing lines in the sand... it's a whole spectrum of stuff from one extreme through normal to the other extreme... and several other directions of extreme added in... the "lines" are the diagnostic cut-offs. A kid can be just short of cut-off, and be far closer in functioning to the
  4. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

    I don't believe she's Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), but you know what....Call it whatever they want, I just want to make sure she gets into a classroom setting that is helpful, rather than her continually shut down in school and then throw fits at home because she doesn't understand the work or will claim the teacher didn't go over it. Teacher goes over it, but Missy just shuts down and the whole class is just a blur that doesn't make sense.

    Some things she tested well and above grade level, others were average, but the ones that she tested well below average, like the 3rd grade level, is what I've been harping on the school district since she was in first grade.
  5. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not


    Our daughter was diagnosed NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD)...and it was explained to us pretty much as you said: discrepancies in learning areas. It was also explained to us that many of the social issues ascribed to aspies are the same for NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD). I'm sorry....I know that's not a lot of help. I wish there was more I could offer...
  6. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Loth... forgive me if I've asked before, but... the whole shut-down thing? Can have multiple different sources. And for our difficult child... the biggest single one? Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) - auditory figure ground. Sure, he has some NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD) tendencies... one of which is slow processing of body language (he "gets" it, just not fast enough in an escalating situation). But ALL of his other disabilities were made far, far worse by the huge mental drain of the un-diagnosed Auditory Processing Disorders (APD).

    Has she ever had a thorough Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) evaluation? if so, how long ago? We had two sets of testing done - about 3 yrs apart... and the test we needed wasn't "available" (i.e. not known around here) on the first round.

    I'm assuming from how you write, that she's had an Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation for sensory stuff...
  7. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

    She was tested for Auditory Processing Disorders (APD). It was negative. She's been tested twice, by two different places. I thought it may have been Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) when she was really young. We've had her tested and tested. She's basically on the cusp of everything, but nothing concrete. Most areas come up average, so she's never truly been diagnosis'd with anything other than the clinical diagnoses. She is bipolar and add without a doubt, but there's something else that's causing the learning problems and I want that addressed by the school district.

    She had sensory issues when she was much younger, but has grown out of most of it. It's the bipolar and anxiety that causes her sensory problems to get out of control now. When she's not symptomatic, she's fine. When she's symptomatic, everything bothers her.
  8. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Does the Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) report specifically mention testing for "auditory figure ground"?
    We were told on the first round that there was "nothing".
    Second round... we pushed and fought and... it turns out there is a "new" test... (i.e. new to here, not NEW) and... he's off-the-charts bad for auditory figure ground. There are at least FIVE categories of Auditory Processing Disorders (APD). MOST tests only look for Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD) - difficulty processing spoken language.
  9. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

    I don't know where the Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) report is. The last time she was tested was about 3 years ago.
  10. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Ours was 3.5 years ago... and then again last summer. 3.5 years ago... they didn't "have" the more detailed tests, so all they tested for was the classical Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD) - verbal language processing problems. Unless you had an exceptional Speech Language Pathologist (SLP)/Audiologist, I'm guessing it wasn't tested.

    I'll try to remember to look up the actual report(s) that we were tested under.

    difficult child complained about "noisy" classrooms starting in grade 1. Teachers complained that he did great 1-on-1 but was a write-off in the classroom. And nobody could give us an explanation, but he was burned out every single day of his life, and usually BEFORE FIRST RECESS. Each year, as the demands got harder, his ability to cope got stretched thinner and thinner... until it broke.

    We needed several dxes, but the major burn-out cause ended up being... Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) - auditory figure ground. Personal FM system has teachers with chins on chests... he's not the same kid in class.
  11. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

    Insane, after reading up on auditory figure ground, I doubt this is her problem. Though she does get easily distracted in noisy situations, it's more ADD, than an auditory issue.

    She goes on sensory overload and just can't handle all the information at one time. I have to give her one instruction at a time. If I tell her to do her homework, but then notice she left a bunch of stuff on the floor, she flips out if I tell her to clean it up, because she just started her homework and can't handle more than one instruction. It's the same in school. That's one of the symptoms of NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD).

    Thank you for giving me the urge to look into that further though.
  12. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    That's a nicely-defined split there, Loth. And we found that, too... it really paid to be made aware of all sorts of possibilities and chase them down, because... sometimes it leads to really good AhHa! moments.

    For our difficult child? He hit sensory overload "in a noisy environment"... so, at school he simply could not handle multiple instructions etc. Even at home he couldn't... some of the time... and we figured out it was when he was already burned out from school. Our biggest hint? He did fantastic for the middle part of summer holidays - took two weeks to get past the burnout... and the last two weeks was anxiety about going back... but in the middle? he was a totally different kid. And then school would start, and... his ability to handle anything went down the tube faster than the days ticked by on the calendar. By October? the school year was "done". He couldn't handle LIFE by grade 4. Downhill from there.
  13. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member I spoke with school phsychologist. Good news! Regardless of any diagnosis, they are pulling her out for math and putting her in a smaller class (similar to her reading class, where there are only 6 kids and two teachers). They are leaving it up to me as to whether I want her pulled out of the other two classes. I'm going to leave her where she is for those, because 1) it's too much transition, 2) she's doing ok, could do better, but it's ok and 3) she really likes those classes and the teachers and when I asked her about pulling her out, she really wants to stay in those two classes. I asked if we could put on her IEP (yes, did you read that - there will finally be an IEP! It only took 6 years to get one) that she will be in a class with in-class support next year for all classes. She said yes. Happy, happy, happy day!

    So, finally, she's getting the help she really needs. Yes, it's late in the game, but I'm thrilled.

    Psychologist knew about the battle I had and the aggitation/disgust I have regarding the elementary cst, so she told me not to worry about the meeting, they are going to classify her and she will get the help she needs, so when I come to the meeting on Friday, I won't need my warrior mom suit! :hapydancsmil:
  14. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Just awesome. Should be a much smoother road. Keep the armor in the trunk of the car just in case though, (been there done that, smile) I personally was pulled out for math and reading in a private school long ago.... I actually loved it. I did catch up (not an Learning Disability (LD) issue, was a transfer to a new school where they were in a different place academically so I needed a ton of help to catch up)....but it really did help to have that attention. I relaxed and didn't feel so left out of things in the reg ed room. I still remember that all these years later. I hope she finds it to be supportive too. Great work!!!