Can students be expelled with iep?

Discussion in 'Special Ed 101' started by crazyeights, Jan 16, 2012.

  1. crazyeights

    crazyeights New Member

    I've been putting off having difficult child 2 evaluated because we were going through evaluations with difficult child 3, and well I can only handle so many appts. And honestly, until AS was suggested (3 months ago) and later diagnosed for difficult child 3, I didn't even know what it was :) However, with investigating for difficult child 3, it became very obvious that difficult child 2 is a classic aspie. Like I got hit on the head. All of those things that everyone said- he's just different... he'll grow out of it... but he's 12 now and still the same. (Even still catch him tip-toeing sometimes- He's 6'2" and almost 200 lbs.. it's odd) So I've been planning on having him evaluated.

    My problem is with his school. He is very intelligent, goes to a Special College Preparatory Program School that he had to test to get into. He loves it! Unfortunately, he is failing 2 classes. Latin is difficult for anyone (I get that), and Social Studies, well that makes no sense since that's what he's into. And he's teetering on failing pre-algebra, and that's where his giftedness is. Call me confused! So I've been trying to help him stay organized to no avail. He does hw and then doesn't turn it in... so frustrating! Then doesn't do hw. Forgets everything.

    Anyway, the school's policy is that if he fails 2 classes, he goes to summer school for both subjects (expensive, but I can handle that) but fails 3 classes and he is expelled. The other alternative school for him is a, well I call it the ghetto school where someone like him and his odd social difficulties will NOT be accepted. My question is - if he had an iep, can they legally expel him? Or is it up to the individual school? He needs help, and I know he won't get it with-o an iep. I'll be calling his school tomorrow to see what they can do in the meantime. Any advice? I just don't really know where to start with this.
  2. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    Is this a public school or private school?
  3. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Do NOT "ask" the school. That will buy THEM time and put them in the power seat.

    You need to go through formal evaluation request in prep for IEP (there's threads out there on Special Education, or other members will chime in)... in writing, by registered mail 'return receipt requested'
  4. crazyeights

    crazyeights New Member

    It's a public school.
  5. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Is this a public school then? I am assuming it is since your other is being evaluated. First, I would get him medically evaluated thru a neuropsychologist while you are doing this school stuff. the school will consider the results and I am saying to do it because once he has this diagnosis it will protect him under ADA for life. He will be allowed to have accommodations and help even in college (those receiving public money).

    OK, so what should happen is that it will stall things so you can get accommodations. They will then need to provide the accommodations and help with the organization. They should also then identify the skill deficits that are creating those issues and help to work on them. Once you write that letter he is protected pending the results. So, personally I would have it drafted and ready to send out certified mail/return receipt first thing tomorrow morning.

    Since you are already going thru the process you know the drill from there! Good luck. Go to writeslaw website for questions about these things too. I bet there will be some here who have even more specific info. These things are as you said, classic issues for an Aspie. So, it is related to his disability and goals and accommodations are needed. So.... cheering you on! There are many like you here doing more than one difficult child at a time... I am not sure how you all do it. I get tired from ONE! (haha, I have been told my one is like five but still....)
  6. crazyeights

    crazyeights New Member

    I appreciate the info :)

    I guess where I'm stuck with understanding all of this is that my difficult child 3 already had an iep for his speech, so it was easy to get help. Well, not easy. The school refused to do testing because they thought it was a behavioral issue so I went to a psychiatrist and are working through that now. I didn't actually have to do anything to get the iep originally. I think I need to read through some threads on the process.
    Would a neuropsychologist be through like a Children's Hospital? I took difficult child 3 to a psychiatrist and that was all I needed. Is this different?
  7. buddy

    buddy New Member

    yes it is different. psychiatrist can give any diagnosis, true. But they are not likely to do so in all of the areas you are really needing.(for example there may be sensory issues, processing issues, etc.) Now if psychiatrist clearly sees this is a kid with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), then WOW, run with it. go ahead and try... but bottom line, you need to know strenghts, weaknesses, what areas is he challenged with so you can make goals. It is often just a really good thing to do even if you are already diagnosed and on an IEP at school.

    The school has a list of criteria they have to fulfill for the Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) category. The diagnosis and what the psychiatrist or neuropsychologist uses can be used to fullfill that if they choose it (and it is stupid not to but sometimes a school has their process or they are being poops and dont agree so want their own testing done...but if there is a conflict in the end between your private and their testing you have a HUGE advantage so still do it). They have to tick the boxes and show the evidence to qualify a child for Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) and it is really not that complicated. But they need to DO it. (you can likely go to your state dept of ed website and find Special Education. criteria and then look under Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) and you will see what they have to do/show). So, start with the fastest, send the letter, if you have a psychiatrist you trust and can tell him/her you need this diagnosis and they agree then go for it. And personally I would still do the neuropsychologist evaluation. A neuropsychologist does many tests across all domains and helps to associate behaviors and learning styles with brain function. They are psychiatrists with extra neuro training.

    yes, a childrens hospital or a university and some private neuropsychologists are out there. Sometimes they are associated with autism or developmental evaluation and therapy clinics. If you are pretty confident you are talking Aspergers or some form of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) then that could be a good start, a specialized child development clinic.
  8. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Do not call the school to request help at least not verbally or via email. Put a request IN WRITING for difficult child 2 to "be evaluated for special education services including but not limited to academic, psychological, behavioral, Occupational Therapy, and Speech evaluations." Send it CERTIFIED Mail with RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED. This puts a rather quick federal timeline for them to do the evaluations and determine what problems he is having. In the meantime, make an appointment with a neuropsychologist as soon as you can. Usually, there are waiting lists but during that wait, you can have him evaluated by a psychiatrist for now just to get things moving. Sooner rather than later and it sounds like you might have no choice but to find the time to juggle appts. difficult child 2's success may depend on it.

    Good luck and {{{HUGS}}}.
  9. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    I can't quote regs on this, but I'm not sure that an IEP would protect your child from expulsion from this school. To me, the fact that he had to be tested in order to attend says this is not your average public school (i.e. neighborhood school). IDEA guarantees free and appropriate public education in least restrictive environment. Appropriate education, not best education.

    It might be worth taking a look at the school's policies. What do they have to say about Special Education services and/or academic supports, or disabilities in general? What services do you think your child needs in order to succeed?

    I tend to expect the worst, but I'd be concerned that since this is a selective high school, not open to all students, that an IEP wouldn't do much at all in terms of preventing expulsion based on academics. They wouldn't be kicking him out of "school" for failing classes, just out of this selective program.

    on the other hand - have you talked to the teachers about his performance? Do you have the sense they might be willing to make accommodations in terms of homework reminders, or tutoring or something along those lines? You've obviously got a bright kid on your hands. I don't know - just tossing stuff out.

    Anyway.... just my opinion and gut feeling.
  10. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    With an IEP, they cannot kick him completely out of school, but they do not have to allow him to attend that magnet school. That being said, if accomodations for him can allow him to succeed in that magnet school, they are required to provide those accomodations (ie. an organizational aide who helps ensure the homework gets to the right teachers, etc)
  11. crazyeights

    crazyeights New Member

    That's really what I'm afraid of- that an iep won't prevent him from being expelled. But I'm hoping it will get him the help he needs to pass.

    I don't really know what will help him. I got him a tutor for Latin for this semester because that's where his real trouble is as far as understanding. Hoping that will help. His main issue is organization, and it doesn't help that 7 teachers want him organized 7 different ways. If I could get them to agree on one way for him, that would make things so much easier. An organizational buddy would probably help. He does good writing assignments in his planner (as far as I know), it's just a matter of bringing the right material home, actually doing it, and putting it where he can find it again the next day. Sounds so easy, right?! :p

    That I know of, the school doesn't have a special education program. I think I'll call anonymously to get some info about their policies on disabilities. I have his request for evaluation ready to go out today, and I'll be calling for an appointment with the psychiatrist.

    Thanks for the support and advice! Nice knowing I'm not alone in this!
  12. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Even if it is a magnet or charter school.... if they are receiving federal dollars they must provide Special Education. support but the degree of that support can be reasonable to their specialized school and as the others are saying it is not that he will be expelled. (having to leave a school is a change in placement, not expulsion so it would not affect his school transcript like that kind of situation ... for example it wouldn't hurt his college app situation, Know what I mean???) They maybe can say he needs a change of placement to receive more appropriate services in this case. I would still fight for accommodations there because it does not sound like he really needs specialized teaching, just to have the mainstream teachers support his special needs.
  13. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    An IEP can specify ONE organizational system that he is to use and the teacher's will be required to fall in line.

    A public school --including charter and magnets -- CANNOT refuse to accomodate a child's IEP. Please change your expectations from "asking" the school if they feel like following federal law to "expecting" that they will follow federal law.

    If Latin is overwhelming for him, it may be better to have the tutor help with the other two subjects to get those grades to passing level.
  14. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Latin. Hmmm.... If they can do this at the university level, surely they can do it in HS? There are systems in place where students at elite universities can get exemptions from absolutely required classes (one of these being a "foreign language"). They just need the equivalent of an IEP - test results, etc. - that confirm that this student cannot handle that particular requirement. As long as it is not core to the body of language for the area of the degree... (i.e. can't do this with math, if you are a math major...!) they accommodate.
  15. culturanta

    culturanta Member

    Hi there,

    Sounds like you are going through a lot right have my prayers and support.

    Regarding difficult child 3, since he does not currently have an IEP, he can be expelled at any time for any reason at the school's discretion.

    After a formal request for evaluation is received by the special education director or school principal (or other administrative critter), the clock starts ticking for him to be tested by the school. He can be found eligible or ineligible for special education. If he is found ineligible, then he will not get an IEP. You will have some rights under procedural safeguards to obtain your own, independent evaluation at the school's expense should you disagree with their decision.

    Once he is found eligible, he will be protected under IDEA as a student with a disability. In that case, the school would need to meet a high burden of proof to expel him, and if they did, they would have to pay for him to receive his education elsewhere. They would also be mandated to provide him with additional help, such as tutoring and perhaps a one on one aide.

    I recommend checking with a Special Education attorney or parent advocate in your state as each municipality is different in the way they implement IDEA.

    Best of luck to you.
  16. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    Actually, once the school is informed (preferably by a certified, return receipt letter), he is protected as a child with a suspected disability.
  17. buddy

    buddy New Member

    jjj is right.... only have to write the letter to ask for an evaluation.... that protects him. Until the matter is determined...testing etc. are completed and a decision is made....

    I suspect expelled is not the right term anyway.... they may ask for a change in placement. But the issues discussed seem like they can be accommodated well for in any school, and a charter school is required to provide Special Education. services just as any school.... (within reasonable limits, but the get federal funds, they must make accommodations).
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2012