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Casey Anthony Bombshell!
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 436357" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Not if her mouth and nose had been stopped up with duct tape. Only if vomit got out onto the car would it have been there to be detected.</p><p></p><p>We haven't had the death penalty in Australia for 50 years or more. I remember the last man hanged - Ronald Ryan. Allegedly a cop killer, a jail break he organised led to one of his group escaping, shooting a cop. He got done for it, because it was his plan to escape. Other than that - he was not a killer, although he WAS an armed robber. I remember thinking at the time, simply because the man who was killed was a cop, should not make the sentence harsher. It's like saying that non-cops are lesser people.</p><p></p><p>We have since had cases in Australia where the death penalty would have been welcomed. We have a number of nasty sociopaths in our maximum security prisons. We even have a couple of prisons built specifically to house "the worst of the worst". We have a specific category of sentencing, based on "truth in sentencing" where "never to be released" means just that. These people (not all male) make Charles Manson look like a choir boy. Most, if not all of these are people who deliberately went hunting to kidnap, torture and kill (often also raping violently, repeatedly and nastily) purely for the thrill of it. A lot of the victims were children but a number were women walking home from the train after work. Some of our names (Google them if you want) - Martin Bryant, Katherine Knight, Ivan Milat. The killers of Anita Cobby and Janine Balding. Some of these killers were scarcely more than kids, but would have got the death penalty if we still had it. </p><p></p><p>One issue with our "worst of the worst" - if they were free, would they kill again? Absolutely. Delightedly. With pleasure. Now apply this measure to this case.</p><p></p><p>When society kills its killers, who is worst? </p><p></p><p>Also, looking at the financial side - yes, it costs money to keep them locked up and alive. But the continued appeals against the death penalty also cost a lot of money, and time, and angst. While these people live, they can and sometimes have, provided new information about old crimes. Sometimes they provide information about new crimes committed by others. But always, they are a deterrent to other criminals, as much as such nasties can be deterred. I personally feel, having lived in times when we have had both options - this way is working better as a deterrent, and as a society I feel we are 'cleaner' now. Those languishing in prison do not have the glamour of being young, wild and desirable in any way. It is hard to be admired by other inmates when you are wrinkled and drooling... they languish in the "big house" and are well cared for physically. They get the same good health care that the rest of Australia gets. So they don't get to die young. They get to grow OLD. They are also watched to make sure they don't kill themselves. Can't be having that either.</p><p></p><p>This works. It's not glamorous. We do have our very small subset of idiots who hero-worship the nasties, but it is not something that is in mainstream society. You would get the idiot hero worshippers anyway, who worship these guys dead or alive. The death penalty makes no difference.</p><p></p><p>In this case - I think there can be sufficient doubt cast on premeditation as well as soundness of mind, to not score the death penalty in this trial. If the death penalty is handed down, I think there will be BIG grounds for appeal. Not tat I'm saying she didn't do it or deserves leniency or anything - but "beyond reasonable doubt" has to apply ten times stronger, when the death penalty is on the table. And a lot of what is happening in this trial, is serving to undermine that. Even broadcasting the trial and groups like us discussing it, are reducing the chances of a fair re-trial, should it ever be needed. Too many people know about it and have an opinion.</p><p></p><p>If the death penalty were taken off the table, I think you might even get a confession, eventually. But she is in a fight for her life right now, and that is all-consuming.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 436357, member: 1991"] Not if her mouth and nose had been stopped up with duct tape. Only if vomit got out onto the car would it have been there to be detected. We haven't had the death penalty in Australia for 50 years or more. I remember the last man hanged - Ronald Ryan. Allegedly a cop killer, a jail break he organised led to one of his group escaping, shooting a cop. He got done for it, because it was his plan to escape. Other than that - he was not a killer, although he WAS an armed robber. I remember thinking at the time, simply because the man who was killed was a cop, should not make the sentence harsher. It's like saying that non-cops are lesser people. We have since had cases in Australia where the death penalty would have been welcomed. We have a number of nasty sociopaths in our maximum security prisons. We even have a couple of prisons built specifically to house "the worst of the worst". We have a specific category of sentencing, based on "truth in sentencing" where "never to be released" means just that. These people (not all male) make Charles Manson look like a choir boy. Most, if not all of these are people who deliberately went hunting to kidnap, torture and kill (often also raping violently, repeatedly and nastily) purely for the thrill of it. A lot of the victims were children but a number were women walking home from the train after work. Some of our names (Google them if you want) - Martin Bryant, Katherine Knight, Ivan Milat. The killers of Anita Cobby and Janine Balding. Some of these killers were scarcely more than kids, but would have got the death penalty if we still had it. One issue with our "worst of the worst" - if they were free, would they kill again? Absolutely. Delightedly. With pleasure. Now apply this measure to this case. When society kills its killers, who is worst? Also, looking at the financial side - yes, it costs money to keep them locked up and alive. But the continued appeals against the death penalty also cost a lot of money, and time, and angst. While these people live, they can and sometimes have, provided new information about old crimes. Sometimes they provide information about new crimes committed by others. But always, they are a deterrent to other criminals, as much as such nasties can be deterred. I personally feel, having lived in times when we have had both options - this way is working better as a deterrent, and as a society I feel we are 'cleaner' now. Those languishing in prison do not have the glamour of being young, wild and desirable in any way. It is hard to be admired by other inmates when you are wrinkled and drooling... they languish in the "big house" and are well cared for physically. They get the same good health care that the rest of Australia gets. So they don't get to die young. They get to grow OLD. They are also watched to make sure they don't kill themselves. Can't be having that either. This works. It's not glamorous. We do have our very small subset of idiots who hero-worship the nasties, but it is not something that is in mainstream society. You would get the idiot hero worshippers anyway, who worship these guys dead or alive. The death penalty makes no difference. In this case - I think there can be sufficient doubt cast on premeditation as well as soundness of mind, to not score the death penalty in this trial. If the death penalty is handed down, I think there will be BIG grounds for appeal. Not tat I'm saying she didn't do it or deserves leniency or anything - but "beyond reasonable doubt" has to apply ten times stronger, when the death penalty is on the table. And a lot of what is happening in this trial, is serving to undermine that. Even broadcasting the trial and groups like us discussing it, are reducing the chances of a fair re-trial, should it ever be needed. Too many people know about it and have an opinion. If the death penalty were taken off the table, I think you might even get a confession, eventually. But she is in a fight for her life right now, and that is all-consuming. Marg [/QUOTE]
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