Child abuse or parenting a difficult child?

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by keista, Oct 11, 2011.

  1. keista

    keista New Member

  2. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    The worst thing? Giving the boy anti-psychotic medicine that was not prescribed for him. The words stupid and, yes, abusive do come to mind...
  3. buddy

    buddy New Member

    While I think they went too far I am going to be totally honest, I think they went too far because they should have known they would get into trouble. I have taken CPI many times, I try to use the de-escalating practices and if I have to restrain I use the principles that keep him safe, but to actually ahve to do it when they are grabbing things and sweaty, it can be next to impossible, and mine is not huge. I dont think this should be routine by any means, but if it as a one time thing, then yes, it was wrong--they can learn new methods.... but to take all the kids away and upset everything instead of just have supervision for a while and get them HELP....
    How many times have I thought, hmmmm handcuffs, leg shakles, mace? How can our minds NOT go there when under attack over and over? Doesn't mean it is ok, just saying it crosses MY mind.
  4. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Oh yes, totally agree it was equally stupid and abusive to take the other children away and split the family up like that.
    We don't really know enough details. But why would they have forcefed him medication that was not his? Was that not a stupid thing to do?
  5. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I think its parenting a difficult child and someone, probably, the other kid or a nosy neighbor, called the cops on the parents. Someone who had no business getting involved in the situation.

    The boy was obviously out of control, threatening his father and probably a threat to the other family members as well. I have no idea how big this boy was in relation to the father. It could very well be that he was as big as the father. The fact that he used another person's AP is not right but I can see how that could happen if the parents knew it worked and perhaps he had been on it before and or another one of the kids had been on it or something like that and they got something like a seroquel or risperdal and gave it to him so he would calm down.

    I can tell you that there were many times during Cory's teen years that I dreamed of being able to put a 6' dog kennel in his bedroom and lock him in at night. He had a bedroom by himself that was about 6' by 10' and I wished with all my being that I could line that room with a kennel and lock him in because I would ground him and he would just go out the window at night or wait for me to go to sleep and leave out the front door. I couldnt see what the difference was between me locking him up and a jail locking him up but I knew I couldnt do that. I also thought a shock collar would be nice too.

    Sometimes when you have really out of control teens, especially teen boys, you reach the end of your rope. Services even if you manage to find them, arent all that great. I wont even tell you some of the things we went through and have done to get Cory to adulthood but he is alive and functioning.

    I do have to laugh a bit though about tied up. I might send this to Jamie and see if he wants to prosecute me now. His first memory is of me tying him and Cory to ladder back chairs with socks. LOL. They were 4 and 2 respectively.
  6. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    Sorry - I'm going to have to call child abuse on this one. Duct taping a child? Giving someone else's medication? Nope - not acceptable under any circumstances. I'm really horrified that Dad thinks it was a situation that just got "blown out of proportion."

    Someone in the home called 911 - they knew help was on the way. Kid is threatening to throw a brick? You do the same thing we've all done with- sibs when difficult children are out of control - get people out of the way.

    We dealt with- similar scenarios with- thank you back in the bad old days. Absolutely, I restrained him - using a therapeutic hold/restraint that we were trained to use by his therapist - until officers/EMT arrived. When he got too big, I simply removed myself and other kids and waited for backup.

    The safety issues alone leave me speechless - picture your difficult child in the rage to beat all rages - now picture yourself duct taping him/her without someone getting injured - *now* picture force feeding a medication without losing fingers or choking the kid. They are extremely lucky no one did get hurt.

    Hopefully the family will get the supports they obviously desperately need as a result of this - but, in my book, losing custody of all their kids, even temporarily, is way too high a price to pay.
  7. keista

    keista New Member

    What bugged me was that the reports focus on the duct taping more than the medications. Of course, don't know the family's background. They may be very schooled and skilled in medicating this kid but "ran out" for whatever reason. I just think that the reporters as well as the general public should be more outraged about the medications than the duct taping.

    The clip I saw on the TV showed the damage to the van - pretty bad. I know I'd probably be duct taping my kid if that happened.

    I just feel bad for the other kids. It's hard enough living with a difficult child, but now they don't even get to talk to their own parents because of him.
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I think both things were very abusive. If I saw that, I'd sure call the cops. You don't duct tape a child OR give him YOUR medication to calm him down. You can't handle it? Call the cops and hold him the best that you can. The child is not an animal, he is mentally ill.

    I don't blame CPS for taking the kids away after seeing that. I'm sure it won't be for long, but they need to understand how to discipline their children appropriately. The word stupid comes to my mind too.
  9. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    While I certainly wouldn't have done either of the things these two parents did...............I'd have called the cops and an ambulance if I felt the situation was bad enough to need physical restraints.........and certainly you never never never give someone else's psychiatric medications to your kid. omg

    But I'd say it was done in ignorance, not necessarily abuse. They'd have to give me more info before I as a juror would find them guilty of abuse on the duct tape. The medications are another matter all together. That was abusive, ignorance or not, as depending on the medications involved they could easily have ODed him.

    And sometimes ignorance is not enough of a defense.

    If a child is that out of control then you need to call in someone else to help you handle the situation. But duct tape? Naw. I don't agree with it, but the child isn't "hurt" by it either. Now that could change say he was kept that way for a long period of time ect. But it doesn't sound like that was the case.
  10. buddy

    buddy New Member

    I guess I always give the benefit of the doubt, my mind went to it was probably a medication he takes but maybe they didn't have right on hand...but if he is not the only difficult child there and another had the right medication, then they borrowed??? Totally a guess, but one time we were at a water park and I forgot difficult child's medications and my nephew took the same so I got one of his and on the way home i stopped and replaced it from difficult child's bottle. Technically it was not HIS medication and if cops were called they would say I gave him someone else's medications. on the other hand, I could be totally wrong and they could have just tried to tranquilize him or something.....just dont know
  11. muttmeister

    muttmeister Well-Known Member

    The duct tape I can live with.
    Giving him somebody else's medications sounds way out of line but, as some of you have pointed out, there may be more to the story.
    What do I think is the worst part of this whole thing? The fact that, when your child is that out of control and threatening to do you bodily injury, there is nobody you can call for help except the police, who will probably treat the kid as a criminal, rather than somebody who needs psychological and perhaps medical help. I'm speaking from experience here. In most areas, there are no services for people like us, with kids like ours.
  12. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Very true mutt, which is why I'm not so quick to jump on the parents. The problem with such articles about such situations is they rarely give you the entire story and without details of all the circumstances, it's really hard to judge.

    And I never thought about it might have been someone else's medications who might have been taking the same thing he was at the same dosage......then, yup, been there done that several times.
  13. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    As we have all said, not enough details are known. Something does not add up, though. If they were at home, which apparently they were, why were the boy's own medications not available? If they had somehow "run out", that in itself does not add up to a well-managed illness. The parents' actions speak of ignorance and despair. Okay, fair enough - but if you have a mentally ill child, I think you have to learn correct procedures for this sort of situation.
  14. keista

    keista New Member

    You know, mutt, you are right. They didn't even take this kid to a psychiatric hospital.

    If he hadn't been duct taped, and still raging, I see another incident with tasers, once the cops showed up, going out of control. And the kid would have gone to juvie instead of a crisis unit. Sometimes there doesn't seem to be a *right* way. :sigh: