Christmas dilemma....

[Signorina]

Late to the party, but once again great advice from the board. I read this post on the first day and wanted to type a well thought out answer but found it impossible to do so from my (stupid at times) "smart" phone. I was actually musing over a similar situation. I came back intending to post and instead realized I didn't need to do so. It was really inspiring to read the answers and see the enlightenment you gained and as well as your own progression in thoughts. Thank you so much!!!

Still clueless as to how we mamas need or seek permission/approval from our difficult child's ... when it's painfully obvious that they have NEVER sought our permission or worried about our feelings. I too get stuck in the cycle of "the less he cares...the more I care..." and I am working really hard on calling a HALT! I think it must be some sort of primal motherly thing - the same instinct that would take food from our mouths rather than let them go hungry...

I am making plans for Spring Break as I type...not going to worry that it falls over Easter and difficult child won't be there to celebrate with us. It's not like he is practicing our faith...why should he care.

It's our last spring break with easy child 2 - as he heads to college next year. Our as H likes to call it - our last spring break on the sofa bed (we stay with my mom) as we finally get to reclaim the guest room in 2013! (easy child 3 will get the sofa bed)

 

[PatriotsGirl]

I tried logging into this site on my Blackberry and couldn't get to the log on screen. I don't think it is your phone!

I kind of had an epiphany of sorts today. I recognized that I was sliding back into codependancy and skidded to a halt. She texted me earlier to let me know that she had a ride to class. I was sitting there debating on whether I shouldn't trust her and demand to take her or let it go. I thought about my life in the past week since being around her again and realized she is not good for me right now. It is not healthy for me to get caught up in her life. She is an adult. I let it go. I told her that it is her life to live, not mine, and that she was an adult and had to make her own decisions. I hope she doesn't blow this opportunity, but it is her choice to make. If she does blow it, she can't expect anything from me anymore. I tried.

I am going home for Christmas and difficult child can make her own plans.

I feel like this tremendous weight has been lifted! Feels so good to detach again.

 

[DDD]

Way To Go! Ddd

 

[Nancy]

Good for you PG.

Last December difficult child and i went down to the community college to enroll her in classes. She was so excited and I loved seeing the smile on her face as she registered for her courses and bought her books. It was a new start for her. husband talked to her on the phone while she was there and told her we would pay for it but this was her last chance and she better not blow it. I was so hopeful, she seemed so happy and positive about it. I had to drive her back and forth every day because we were not letting her drive. It took her two weeks before she began texting me that she had rides home and then not coming home for hours. She was skipping classes and smoking pot all day. The experiment ended, we finally kicked her out of the house and she had to withdraw from all the classes leaving us $1500 to pay.

I decided at that point to walk away. We had told her it was her last chance and it was. It still makes me very sad, all the missed opportunities she had. But alcohol and srugs are more powerful than anything int he world.

Nancy

 

[Star*]

pats girl,

i'm sorry you are hurting so bad.

 

[PatriotsGirl]

She actually did go to class last night and asked me for a ride today. She also told me today that she wants to go again next week to ensure she passes the test. I am actually kind of proud of her for thinking that way. We all know how we have to celebrate the little things when it comes to our difficult children. She had her attitude again at first but I quickly brought it to her attention and it changed and she was pleasant to be around. I made sure I told her when she was being pleasant that this is the time I enjoy being around her. I just wish she was that way more often. She looked better today, too...I think I will enjoy this moment because we all know it doesn't last...

 

[keista]

Whispering a great big YAY.

 

[PatriotsGirl]

Whispering a great big YAY.

LOL - that is cute!!

 

[keista]

LOL - that is cute!!

Well, we want to enjoy but not jinx, right?

 

[PatriotsGirl]

Still clueless as to how we mamas need or seek permission/approval from our difficult child's ... when it's painfully obvious that they have NEVER sought our permission or worried about our feelings. I too get stuck in the cycle of "the less he cares...the more I care..." and I am working really hard on calling a HALT! I think it must be some sort of primal motherly thing - the same instinct that would take food from our mouths rather than let them go hungry...

I had to come back to this thread as husband and I were discussing Thanksgiving plans this morning. He reminded me that he and easy child do not like turkey dinner and that I would be the only one eating it. Well, my plan all along had been to invite difficult child over to eat with us if she could be respectful and act like an adult. I mentioned that this morning and he doesn't want to take the chance and refuses to be there if she is. He claimed he would rather go somewhere else and spend the day and allow me to have the house with the kids. This is not a viable solution to me. But, I also know I wouldn't be able to enjoy a dinner at home. I would be thinking about difficult child and wondering what she was going to eat that day. The thought just absolutely crushes me. So, best solution for me is to volunteer my time that day to feed the homeless. I will be doing something that makes me feel good and I could invite difficult child to share that experience with me. Stinks that we can't all be together, but at least I won't be miserable....

But I keep coming to this quote because I realize it is SO true. I am always seeking my difficult child's approval and affection. Why??? I am always concerned about her feelings and what is she going to do without her family on the holidays. Why??? I found out the other day that her phone had been stolen - again. Yet, it was not her that told me. The only reason I know this is because she keeps her Facebook public and posted about it. She also posted her new phone number (no idea how she got that and it is a PA number?). Anyhow, she has not contacted me. So why am I so concerned about her holiday?

husband says we are going to run in to this problem every year around the holidays. My thinking is that I am hopeful it won't always be this way. I am hopeful that she will mature into a better person and could come over on the holidays, be pleasant and then go home. But what if she doesn't? Am I going to run away every holiday because I can't bear to think that we are abandoning her? I can't help but feel crappy if I did stay home and cook a meal and what if she asks what we are doing for Thanksgiving? Am I to tell her we are staying home and eating but she isn't invited?? I couldn't possibly do that. And on the same line of thinking, if we stayed home for Christmas (which we were considering), do I tell her then that she simply isn't invited to be with her family on Christmas?? I am having a really hard time wrapping my brain around this. Yet, it is really obvious she is making no effort to be a part of the family, so why am I so concerned about her holiday plans?

Have any of you had to tell your kids they weren't invited to be part of a holiday with you??

 

[Kathy813]

PatriotsGirl.

husband and I are struggling with this same issue for Thanksgiving. We have been invited to a close friend's house for Thanksgiving and easy child really wants to go. She also invited difficult child but I'm not sure we want to bring her. husband, easy child, and I would have a much more relaxing day if difficult child is not there. I would be constantly on guard that difficult child would steal something or find medications in a bathroom or even just say outrageous things and look like hell.

We have turned down invitations in the past out of fear of how difficult child would act and then she didn't even show up at our house for the holiday. So, I'm now leaning on just telling her that she had not been invited and that she can meet us later that day for a late supper at a restaurant.

It's so hard, though, to know what to do.

~Kathy

 

[InsaneCdn]

PG...

What, exactly, are you trying to hang on to?
The tradition of the holiday?
The image of a "real family"?
Something else entirely?

My parents don't celebrate xmas, but if the whole crew gets together, Mom does a turkey.... just because "how else do you feed 30+ people", not because its "tradition"...

We are just the 4 of us.
Most of the "traditions" don't make sense for us.

We've had to step back and consider... just what are we trying to accomplish?
We have found that small (i.e. non-holiday) traditions, are worth keeping. Like, in our house, if one of us is leaving the house (i.e. going off property), the rest of us stop and say goodby... we "always" say goodby... its a tradition in our house.

The big ones? only if it actually has meaning or value to those participating right now...

We've opted to "make good memories" rather than "preserve traditions".
Better to have a "make your own pizza party" and a raft of good memories, than a turkey dinner and bad feelings.
A great big busy day, doesn't work for any of us... took a while, but we're fine with it now.

Is it more important to you to be part of the formal "thanksgiving dinner" tradition? or to have family home and together? Those are choices you can make, once you realize that you're not going to get "all of it".

 

[busywend]

Look - she managed to get a new cell phone, right? Let her live her life the way she wants to live it. I would not worry about her T-day plans one minute. If she wants to be with family she will call and find out what the plan is. If the plan does not include her....she WILL find other plans. If it hurts her feelings? Too bad, she has hurt plenty of feelings in her day and believe me we all get over it eventually when it comes to our family hurting us.

So, let her do her thing and you do what YOU WANT TO DO. Period. What do you WANT to do?

 

[PatriotsGirl]

PG...

What, exactly, are you trying to hang on to?
The tradition of the holiday?
The image of a "real family"?
Something else entirely?

QUOTE]

This has really got me thinking today. I don't think I am trying to hold on to anything and if difficult child told me she had other plans, truth be known, I would be thrilled. Truth is, I don't exactly want to be around her. The majority of the time, she is miserable to be around and when she talks to us like we are koi, I just want to knock her lights out. So I get what my husband is feeling. I DO want to be with my husband but he has said if she is there, he will not be and that makes me sad, too. I guess, what I fear and dread the most is emotionally hurting difficult child. If she didn't have plans, and I can't imagine she does as she has driven most people out of her life with her miserable attitude, I know she would expect to be with us and she would bring up the fact that people should be with family on the holidays. I have no issues about Thanksgiving now that I have made my plans to volunteer - I have no qualms telling her what I am doing and asking if she wants to join me. I will take next year as it comes....I may volunteer again or things could be different - who knows.

My issue really is Christmas. I don't think we are going to be able to go home. That is my busiest time of the year at work and I can't see being able to pull it off. I know she is most likely going to expect to be with us for Christmas (though she could care less about seeing us the rest of the year!). My husband brought up how he could go home for Christmas and let me have the house with the kids. But I don't want that. I want to be with him. But, I almost feel as if I am being given an ultimatum of being with him or her and that bothers me a lot. I get his point - she has managed to ruin most every holiday and when we do get together with her it almost always ends in a fight. But the thought of saying to her, no, you cannot come over and be with us on Christmas crushes me. How in the world does a parent do that?? What exactly do you say to your kid???

 

[Kathy813]

Is this a step-parent? I could understand his feelings more than if she is his bio daughter.

However, in my humble opinion, your marriage should come first as well as easy child. Your daughter is an adult and made choices which make her unwelcome in your home. The consequences of that are that she doesn't get to spend holidays with you.

Of course, that is easy to say in theory, much harder to put into practice.

{{{hugs}}}

~Kathy

 

[PatriotsGirl]

Is this a step-parent? I could understand his feelings more than if she is his bio daughter.

However, in my humble opinion, your marriage should come first as well as easy child. Your daughter is an adult and made choices which make her unwelcome in your home. The consequences of that are that she doesn't get to spend holidays with you.

Of course, that is easy to say in theory, much harder to put into practice.

{{{hugs}}}

~Kathy

He adopted her when she was 3. They are both very hard headed and really too much alike - which is why they do not get along at all (that and YEARS of her being a problem child - I used to joke that the movie "Problem Child" was made after her). And yes, it makes perfect sense and I totally get that - it is the putting it into practice that I would have a really hard time doing. I would feel almost like I put a nail in the coffin my purposely excluding her from being with us, if that makes any sense. I guess I have always feared bringing her any kind of pain and that has never gone away. And yet I ask myself - does she care about not bringing pain to me? My birthday was last Monday and I never heard from her. I figure she just didn't remember, but still, it hurt.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Depression is one of the hardest things to deal with, emotionally.
K1 went through a really bad spell - and it made him impossible to have around (we still did, he's not an adult).
Part of the mommy-heart-challenge is that we see the "monster" that is tearing apart our kid... and we can't (directly) do anything about it.
(ours had ODD too... at the same time)

Somehow, you KNOW she's hurting. Big time. But you can't really reach her, and can't solve the problem. But somehow, it isn't really "her". It makes for a really ugly dilema.

 

[toughlovin]

Oh it is a hard one. I am not facing it this year because my difficult child is living out of state. However it is absolutely clear to me that until he does some major major work and works some major issues out with my daughter we will not be getting together the 4 of us. My daughter is very very angry with him for some things he did and I totally get and respect her anger. She is most definitely a easy child and has a therapist to deal with the impact he has had on her life. She is doing great. I have decided that I cannot force her to see him and will not do so. She has set a boundary and I have decided to respect that. He knows how she feels because she wrote him a letter at one point which he has not yet responded to. I think he could not deal with her anger.. hopefully with tx he will work through some of his feelings and be ablel to make amends. I have hopes that he will do that and that eventually they can be close again but right now I have accepted that they cannot.

So he is coming home for a court date... we offered him a hotel room. He is staying with a friend instead which I am not thrilled about but it is the way it is.

If he was going to be here for the holiday I would hope to see him at some point but it woudl be separate from the celebration with my daughter.

So I agree with others right now your marraige comes first and so does your easy child. You really can't put everyone else on hold for your difficult child.... you really don't want to sacrifice them for her. It seems like your husband is setting a clear boundary for himself and is letting you decide what you want to do. Good for him.

I think I would be honest with difficult child and say "look your behavior has been such that husband does not want to spend the holiday with you. I am willing to get together for breakfast, or a late supper or whatever, but you can't come to the family celebration right now". It is the consequences of her own behavior.

I know very very hard to do. Sometimes someone else setting a boundary helps us set them too.

TL

 

[Signorina]

You absolutely need to go - you MUST go. And do it with a clear conscience and have a wonderful time.

 

[PatriotsGirl]

I had a nice long talk with my mother in law on the way home today. Love love love her!!! She went through it all with husband so she is so great to talk to. Her advice is to not chase difficult child to contact - which I agree with - as far as difficult child knows, I do not know her phone is gone or that she has a different number. But if she should happen to call for Christmas, to carve out a couple of hours to spend with her either here or out somewhere, but not a whole day. I agree with that completely. Perhaps breakfast or a movie that night (we usually go to the theater Christmas night). But not a whole day and not something to stress about unless she calls.

Also talked more with husband and I totally get it. He has set a boundary and until she can visit and be respectful, he would rather not be put into the position of being the bad guy. Since she was screaming at me calling me a B last I saw her, he doesn't have assurance she can be an adult here.

Thanks everyone! It wasn't a very good day for me, but I am feeling a bit better.....