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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 32889" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>I think the outcome of what we've been talking about here is this - for some of us, the church experience has been less than satisfactory. This, however, is not due to innate flaws in religions itself, only an indication of human frailty unchecked.</p><p></p><p>If you have a good experience at church then that is truly wonderful. You can get some great support and close friendship from others at church.</p><p></p><p>But if you don't - don't take it personally. All relationships need to be worked at, often from both sides. And sometimes I feel too tired to keep trying. I do have friends from our church even while there are others who have been very judgmental, often using doctrine as the excuse (which really annoys me). But I do feel that, although I would love to be assured of church support, I can live without it if I have to, and by guarding myself against this sort of rejection I can feel stronger. Church and faith are very different.</p><p></p><p>Some years ago a friend from church (no longer attending - similar reasons to our current drift away) got me to listen to a tape (album called "Some People") by Paul Aldritch, a Christian comedian from California. In one section he was talking about dysfunctional families, describing his own upbringing. He went on to describe various people in the Bible, and THEIR families. It was very apt, and very funny. "Now Jacob has two sons by two different women. And they all live in the same tent. is this dysfunctional, or what? Abraham takes his son Isaac up onto the mountain for a sacrifice. This isn't exactly the Beaver Cleaver family here, right? You can hear Isaac saying, 'golly, Dad, how come you don't take my brother Wally up onto the mountain and try to kill him, huh?'"</p><p>Jacob then has 12 sons, which Paul Aldritch reckons is almost automatically dysfunctional. "And they all live on the one big ranch, it's like the Ponderosa for this family. And the second youngest, 'little Jo-seph', is so popular with his co-dependent brothers that they toss him into a pit and sell him as a slave. This is dysfunctional, folks! And what do you think big Brother Hoss told Dad when they got back to the ranch?"</p><p>But then he goes on to explain how Jacob, called the Deceiver ("now there's a balanced guy, I wanna go live in HIS family") became Israel, Prince with God. "And Joseph rose through all kids of adversity to become a resource and rescuer to an entire nation."</p><p>And so on. But the end result of this line of thinking - God seems to choose dysfunctional families. It's almost as if he seeks them out. "Oh, they're too normal over there, I need these weird guys here," according to Paul Aldritch. he continues, "It's almost as if God favours dysfunctional families unfairly. So if ever you think you are too weird, or too strange then you're not. Chances are, in terms of service to God - you are overqualified."</p><p></p><p>husband & I have looked around at other churches. Because we live in an isolated place we really don't have a lot of choice. Also, in Australia church is not quite the same as in the US. It's far less a focus for life, although the Christian ethic pervades very deeply. The increasing fundamentalism means that those who continue church attendance are either those who are themselves very conservative in outlook, or who can tolerate the same conservatism without it getting to them. Many more liberal-minded Christians are simply not going to church any more. A big exception is the Roman Catholic church - they used to be considered conservative, but they haven't changed as much while others have. Now they seem radical by comparison. But I'm not quite ready to embrace Roman Catholicism yet! We went to their Christmas service, though, and loved it. No room in the inn - we had to peer through the window, it was so crowded.</p><p></p><p>But my thoughts often return to Paul Aldritch. difficult child 1 loves that tape. It helps him realise that God can use him, too. And he likes that. And knowing that helps him, and me, cope if ever we feel we're being treated as if we're an embarrassment, or we're in the way.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 32889, member: 1991"] I think the outcome of what we've been talking about here is this - for some of us, the church experience has been less than satisfactory. This, however, is not due to innate flaws in religions itself, only an indication of human frailty unchecked. If you have a good experience at church then that is truly wonderful. You can get some great support and close friendship from others at church. But if you don't - don't take it personally. All relationships need to be worked at, often from both sides. And sometimes I feel too tired to keep trying. I do have friends from our church even while there are others who have been very judgmental, often using doctrine as the excuse (which really annoys me). But I do feel that, although I would love to be assured of church support, I can live without it if I have to, and by guarding myself against this sort of rejection I can feel stronger. Church and faith are very different. Some years ago a friend from church (no longer attending - similar reasons to our current drift away) got me to listen to a tape (album called "Some People") by Paul Aldritch, a Christian comedian from California. In one section he was talking about dysfunctional families, describing his own upbringing. He went on to describe various people in the Bible, and THEIR families. It was very apt, and very funny. "Now Jacob has two sons by two different women. And they all live in the same tent. is this dysfunctional, or what? Abraham takes his son Isaac up onto the mountain for a sacrifice. This isn't exactly the Beaver Cleaver family here, right? You can hear Isaac saying, 'golly, Dad, how come you don't take my brother Wally up onto the mountain and try to kill him, huh?'" Jacob then has 12 sons, which Paul Aldritch reckons is almost automatically dysfunctional. "And they all live on the one big ranch, it's like the Ponderosa for this family. And the second youngest, 'little Jo-seph', is so popular with his co-dependent brothers that they toss him into a pit and sell him as a slave. This is dysfunctional, folks! And what do you think big Brother Hoss told Dad when they got back to the ranch?" But then he goes on to explain how Jacob, called the Deceiver ("now there's a balanced guy, I wanna go live in HIS family") became Israel, Prince with God. "And Joseph rose through all kids of adversity to become a resource and rescuer to an entire nation." And so on. But the end result of this line of thinking - God seems to choose dysfunctional families. It's almost as if he seeks them out. "Oh, they're too normal over there, I need these weird guys here," according to Paul Aldritch. he continues, "It's almost as if God favours dysfunctional families unfairly. So if ever you think you are too weird, or too strange then you're not. Chances are, in terms of service to God - you are overqualified." husband & I have looked around at other churches. Because we live in an isolated place we really don't have a lot of choice. Also, in Australia church is not quite the same as in the US. It's far less a focus for life, although the Christian ethic pervades very deeply. The increasing fundamentalism means that those who continue church attendance are either those who are themselves very conservative in outlook, or who can tolerate the same conservatism without it getting to them. Many more liberal-minded Christians are simply not going to church any more. A big exception is the Roman Catholic church - they used to be considered conservative, but they haven't changed as much while others have. Now they seem radical by comparison. But I'm not quite ready to embrace Roman Catholicism yet! We went to their Christmas service, though, and loved it. No room in the inn - we had to peer through the window, it was so crowded. But my thoughts often return to Paul Aldritch. difficult child 1 loves that tape. It helps him realise that God can use him, too. And he likes that. And knowing that helps him, and me, cope if ever we feel we're being treated as if we're an embarrassment, or we're in the way. Marg [/QUOTE]
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