Conduct Disorders (male, 13yrs)

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by eccooper, Oct 1, 2010.

  1. eccooper

    eccooper Guest

    My wife and I are new to this forum, and after years of doctors shoving ADHD pills down our sons throat, we have just dicovered...Conduct Disorders. I looked over the forum and either dont understand it or simply could not find other parents speaking about Conduct Disorders. Can someone direct us please?
  2. Jules71

    Jules71 Warrior Mom since 2007

    Are you referring to the disgnosis of CD (Conduct Disorder)? Here is some information about Oppositional Defiant Disorder and Conduct Disorder.

    Listed below are DSM-IV symptoms for ODD:

    1. often loses temper;
    2. often argues with adults;
    3. often actively defies or refuses to comply with adult requests or rules;
    4. often deliberately annoys people;
    5. often blames others for mistakes or misbehavior;
    6. is often touchy or easily annoyed by others;
    7. is often angry and resentful;
    8. is often spiteful and vindictive;

    For ODD to be an appropriate diagnosis, at least 4 of the symptoms listed above must be present for at least 6 months; the behavior must occur more frequently than is typical child of comparable age, and the behavior must create significant impairment in a child's social or academic functioning. In addition, the oppositional behavior can not occur only during times when a child is depressed.

    An important difference that you will note from the symptoms of ADHD is that none of the ADHD symptoms involve behavior that is considered to be deliberate and willful. Although children with ADHD often engage in behavior that annoy others and fail to follow through on requests, such behavior is generally not deliberately and willfully initiated.

    The kinds of difficulties that are associated with ODD are critically important to bring under control as soon as possible, because such behavior becomes more entrenched and difficult to change the longer it persists. In addition, children with ODD are at significant risk for the development of the more severe kinds of behavioral disturbance that is characteristic of Conduct Disorder, and the long term outcomes for children with Conduct Disorder are especially worrisome.

    Conduct Disorder (CD) is a more severe type of behavioral disorder than ODD that is also unfortunately more likely to develop in children with ADHD.

    According to DSM-IV, the publication of the American Psychiatric Association that provides current diagnostic criteria for all recognized psychiatric disorders, the essential feature of CD is "...a repetitive and persistent pattern of behavior in which the basic rights of others or age appropriate social norms or rules are violated." These behaviors fall into 4 main groupings:

    1. Aggressive behavior that causes or threatens to cause harm;

    Examples: initiating fights; cruelty to people or animals;

    2. Non-aggressive conduct that causes property loss or damage;

    Examples: fire setting with intent to cause damage; deliberate destruction of property;

    3. Deceitfulness or theft;

    Examples: shoplifting; breaking into someone's house; frequent lying to obtain goods or avoid obligations;

    4. Serious violation of rules;

    Examples: truancy from school; running away from home; staying out at night prior to age 13;

    For the diagnosis of CD to be correctly assigned, at least 3 of the specific symptoms must have occurred during the prior 12 months, with at least one criterion present in the last 6 months. In addition, the disturbance in behavior must clearly result in clinically significantly impairment in the child or teen's social, academic, or occupational functioning. These criterion are intended to assure that the diagnosis is not assigned for an isolated antisocial act, but is instead reserved for youth who show a pattern of antisocial behavior over a significant period of time.
  3. eccooper

    eccooper Guest

    Thank you, thank you, Jules71. We have been reading a lot in the last two days and your post is right on! Not the ODD, but the CD is right on target. Naturally he has been seeing doctors of all types for a very long time, and naturally the love diagnosing him with ADHD once he walks through the door and the moment they accept my insurance (ha-ha). So do you Jules71 or any other parents out there know how we can manage our daily lives, how we can live with his constant CD behavior and manage our other two children almost like everything is ok although it's really not, how do we go to other friends homes and not worry about him stealing everything, how do we get the schools to understand his disorder, how to we keep our sanity and maintain a healthy marriage, etc, etc. Now certainly I dont expect you or someone else to answer each one of these (unless you are that knowledgeable), but do you know of a book or web site or even better-How to find that right doctor??

    I know I am asking alot, but we are desperately trying to at least get a handle on things....not cure it.....but mitigate it!

    Thank you again for your previous post and I hope to hear from someone soon.
  4. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Just wanting to add my welcome. Has he seen a neuropsychologist? Their testing is usually very thorough and can give a lot of insight.

    I wish I had the answer to your questions but I will share with you what we have done even though it has been far from perfect.

    I can tell you that to keep our sanity (if you can call it that) we try to schedule individual time along with some couple time. For me exercising is huge; it is a great outlet for my stress and with-o it I'm not sure how I would deal with the dailiness of dealing with my difficult child. We are lucky that we can sometimes leave at night after difficult child is sleeping because our 17 year old is home and once difficult child is asleep he won't wake up for quite awhile. Also we are able to leave him alone for short periods of time but we don't have to deal with the stealing-he did that a lot when he was younger but not any longer!

    As for managing with the other kiddos, we have had our daughter in therapy for years because of what she deals with due to difficult child, however, she has a lot of her own issues now as well.

    A book that has been helpful to many here is The Explosive Child by Ross Greene.

    Again, welcome, glad you found us-sorry you needed to. You have truly found a corner of the world that will offer much support.
  5. Jules71

    Jules71 Warrior Mom since 2007

    I broke down your questions from your post so we can see if we can address each one.

    1. how do we manage our daily lives
    2. how do we live with his constant CD behavior
    3. how do we manage our other two children almost like everything is ok although it's really not
    4. how do we go to other friends homes and not worry about him stealing everything
      My thought on this is do you have respite care available in your area? Basically it is care you can put him in when you need/want to go do other things, so he is properly supervised. Try doing a google search on respite care in your area.
    5. how do we get the schools to understand his disorder
      Does he currently have an IEP in school? Has be been evaluated by the school? What issues does he have in school? If he has not been evaluated by the school, I think the first step would be to send a certified letter to your school district requesting a full and initial multi-disciplinary evaluation. There is a template on this site for a letter you can send. I am not sure where it is but someone can direct you.
    6. how to we keep our sanity and maintain a healthy marriage, etc, etc.
      Support - lots of support. Find others who are in a similar situation to talk to. Look for a support group. Come here to this site for support. Take time to nurture your marriage (respite care can help so you can get away together once in awhile).
    7. book or web site
      I have a full library of books that haven't helped me so far, so I am not sure what to recommend. Just keep reading and finding out what you can about the disorder. This web site is great. You can also google 'conduct disorders' to get more info.
    8. How to find that right doctor??
      Someone else already recommended a neuropsychologist. You can also ask your pediatrician or family doctor for a recommendation.

    So his diagnoses are ADHD and CD, right? Have you always had problems with him like this? Is he currently on any medication?

    Welcome to the board. Keep posting.

  6. eccooper

    eccooper Guest

    Jules71 and Wiped Out - THANK YOU FOR YOUR INSIGHT. I get goose bumps when I read the things the two of you write. It almost seems like you two have been hiding in our house. I am sure the two of you have felt like this before, but we really thought we were the worst parents and no one else had it as bad as we do. Funny thing is when we are around others couples, the ALL know what to do about his behavior, but we dont know a thing! Feels like we are the dumbest couple in the world. We have recently learned to almost ignore them (unless they have similiar issues with a child) and to bite our tongues.

    I need to gather the list of doctors he has seen, but I do not believe he has seen a Neuropsychologist. I am certainly going to re-visit that. He has been on almost every ADHD medication out there, currently on Vyvanse (unk spelling?). I am going to look into the IEP and the Full & Initial multi-disciplinary evaluation with the school.

    Well again, we thank the two of you very much. We will keep you posted.
  7. Jules71

    Jules71 Warrior Mom since 2007

    I completely understand what you said about your friends thinking they have the answers and know what to do. BLAH! It's the same way with my friends and half my family. My brother and his wife have 3 adopted children, 1 has Aspergers and another has ADHD/ODD - so I talk to them a lot, and my mom. It is very helpful coming here because people get it. I do just ignore my friends comments, but sometimes when I cannot take it anymore, I send them articles and information about what we are dealing with and that shuts them up for awhile.

    I don't practice what I preached above as well as I should. I don't seem to ever be able to get away from it (I have a 3 yr old too). Yesterday I actually got an hour and 15 mins to sit in my car and read a book. For me that was heaven. Hang in there and keep fighting for your kiddo. And of course, keep us posted!