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Confused and need help from my "experts"
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 427912" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Aspies can lie, but they usually are bad at it. When they are bad at it, they get caught and cop the consequences. over time, if this happens, they develop a conditioned response to not lie.</p><p></p><p>BUT - if they are more skilled art lying, or they are (for whatever reason) getting away with it, they will become more skilled and also will not be put off rom lying.</p><p></p><p>There is another subset of Aspie that cannot lie because it involves stating something they know to not be true, and the conflict (not fear of being caught) of "I am saying one thing, and the reality is something else" is too confusing for them to cope with. They tend to be more severe in their Asperger's or autism.</p><p></p><p>The simplest lie is "I didn't do it". That was the level of lie that difficult child 3 would tell. He currently sometimes tries to lie with "Yes, I did do my work," but when challenged to produce it, he readily admits he lied. I can leave difficult child 3 to do a test, for example, and know he will not cheat in any way. I gave him a test last week, and set the timer on the microwave oven. he is permitted to take rest breaks and would come out, pause the timer then get a snack or go to the bathroom. On his return he would, if I was there, inform me and ask me to restart the timer. I could see him (he didn't know this) and I could see him NOT look at the paper or pick up his pen until I said, "Timer back on."</p><p></p><p>A young man in our village, a former friend of difficult child 1 and a year or two younger, split from difficult child 1 when he got in with a bad crowd. Easily led. They became his role models and involved him in their crimes. They first split him off from his "goody goody" friends like difficult child 1, those who might influence him away from the thugs, and made the boy dependent on them socially. They then implicated him in their crimes to such an extent that they could say to him, "You can't dob us in, you're in too deep." The leader of this group comes from a family of thugs with a reputation for violence. One Halloween about 5 years ago, the thug beat up another kid and got the Aspie guy to hide the weapon in his backpack (along with the cartons of eggs they were throwing at people's houses, including ours). The cops came out, their first search was the thug who was of course weaponless. Then they searched the rest of the gang and found the eggs and the baseball bat with blood on it. So the Aspie guy now has a criminal record, for a crime he did not commit. The cops know the truth but the Aspie guy won't talk because his loyalty is tied to his "friends".</p><p></p><p>I am certain the parents could have prevented this if they had </p><p></p><p>1) understood in enough time; and</p><p></p><p>2) acted more forcefully to remove him from the influence of these problem guys. </p><p></p><p>But I think they were happy he had friends, and did not dig as hard as they should have when there were problems. The warning signs were there, people in the village warned them and they failed to act. The boy also had too much money available to him and so got involved in small amounts of drug trafficking.</p><p></p><p>The problem here, is that for this young man, he is still following rules very strictly. But instead of these being society's rules, they are the gang's rules. he has learned, over time, what these rules are and which rules are more important in his life. Sadly, it's the gang.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 1, on the other hand, has gone the other direction. He and daughter in law attend a very conservative, almost fundamentalist church in our district. Not our local church - I think our mob is too liberal! It's a bit like that Groucho Marx joke - "I don't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member", our church is too liberal because it has someone like me sometimes getting up and giving the lesson. difficult child 1 gets a lot of social support form his church, they need what he and daughter in law do with keeping the kids occupied in Sunday School. They are emotionally supported, there is informal counselling - the social network there is vital for them both. And the price - accepting the high level of conservatism and actually embracing it. I have learned to not debate it, to shut up and accept that this is where they need to be right now. I am also very grateful that they get their social support at a good place and not the dark place his former friend is now in.</p><p></p><p>I endorse what Susie said - don't stress about the lying. Focus on the underlying problem that he is lying about. Also make it clear - if he lies, you WILL know. That is the one thing we used, we really worked hard to keep the eyes in the back of our heads and maintain the myth (for long enough) that we are omniscient. Use everything you can, keep it light and friendly, and never reveal your sources!</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 427912, member: 1991"] Aspies can lie, but they usually are bad at it. When they are bad at it, they get caught and cop the consequences. over time, if this happens, they develop a conditioned response to not lie. BUT - if they are more skilled art lying, or they are (for whatever reason) getting away with it, they will become more skilled and also will not be put off rom lying. There is another subset of Aspie that cannot lie because it involves stating something they know to not be true, and the conflict (not fear of being caught) of "I am saying one thing, and the reality is something else" is too confusing for them to cope with. They tend to be more severe in their Asperger's or autism. The simplest lie is "I didn't do it". That was the level of lie that difficult child 3 would tell. He currently sometimes tries to lie with "Yes, I did do my work," but when challenged to produce it, he readily admits he lied. I can leave difficult child 3 to do a test, for example, and know he will not cheat in any way. I gave him a test last week, and set the timer on the microwave oven. he is permitted to take rest breaks and would come out, pause the timer then get a snack or go to the bathroom. On his return he would, if I was there, inform me and ask me to restart the timer. I could see him (he didn't know this) and I could see him NOT look at the paper or pick up his pen until I said, "Timer back on." A young man in our village, a former friend of difficult child 1 and a year or two younger, split from difficult child 1 when he got in with a bad crowd. Easily led. They became his role models and involved him in their crimes. They first split him off from his "goody goody" friends like difficult child 1, those who might influence him away from the thugs, and made the boy dependent on them socially. They then implicated him in their crimes to such an extent that they could say to him, "You can't dob us in, you're in too deep." The leader of this group comes from a family of thugs with a reputation for violence. One Halloween about 5 years ago, the thug beat up another kid and got the Aspie guy to hide the weapon in his backpack (along with the cartons of eggs they were throwing at people's houses, including ours). The cops came out, their first search was the thug who was of course weaponless. Then they searched the rest of the gang and found the eggs and the baseball bat with blood on it. So the Aspie guy now has a criminal record, for a crime he did not commit. The cops know the truth but the Aspie guy won't talk because his loyalty is tied to his "friends". I am certain the parents could have prevented this if they had 1) understood in enough time; and 2) acted more forcefully to remove him from the influence of these problem guys. But I think they were happy he had friends, and did not dig as hard as they should have when there were problems. The warning signs were there, people in the village warned them and they failed to act. The boy also had too much money available to him and so got involved in small amounts of drug trafficking. The problem here, is that for this young man, he is still following rules very strictly. But instead of these being society's rules, they are the gang's rules. he has learned, over time, what these rules are and which rules are more important in his life. Sadly, it's the gang. difficult child 1, on the other hand, has gone the other direction. He and daughter in law attend a very conservative, almost fundamentalist church in our district. Not our local church - I think our mob is too liberal! It's a bit like that Groucho Marx joke - "I don't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member", our church is too liberal because it has someone like me sometimes getting up and giving the lesson. difficult child 1 gets a lot of social support form his church, they need what he and daughter in law do with keeping the kids occupied in Sunday School. They are emotionally supported, there is informal counselling - the social network there is vital for them both. And the price - accepting the high level of conservatism and actually embracing it. I have learned to not debate it, to shut up and accept that this is where they need to be right now. I am also very grateful that they get their social support at a good place and not the dark place his former friend is now in. I endorse what Susie said - don't stress about the lying. Focus on the underlying problem that he is lying about. Also make it clear - if he lies, you WILL know. That is the one thing we used, we really worked hard to keep the eyes in the back of our heads and maintain the myth (for long enough) that we are omniscient. Use everything you can, keep it light and friendly, and never reveal your sources! Marg [/QUOTE]
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