Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
New profile posts
Latest activity
Internet Search
Members
Current visitors
New profile posts
Search profile posts
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
Parent Support Forums
General Parenting
Confused-Need Advice
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 171803" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>I'll be tactful and discreet here - the doctor's a flamin' twerp. The nurse - does she REALLY work for a pediatrician? </p><p></p><p>I do wonder - does this pediatrician mainly deal with newborns? It would explain a great deal.</p><p></p><p>ANY health professional dealing with kids old enough to know what is going on (and to my mind, that is any child who is more tan a few weeks old) should show respect to the child and to the mother.</p><p></p><p>ODD as a diagnosis - on the basis of a child who is being disrespected and bullied like this? That is using diagnosis as a weapon. I wonder how many kids are given this diagnosis, and medicated, purely because of an incident like this.</p><p></p><p>OK, back to the child - if his phobia of doctors, barbers etc seem excessive to you (although after an experience like tis, it would be understandable) then get another opinion, preferably form someone with compassion.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 3 & difficult child 1 have had some phobias which really got in the way of medical interventions. difficult child 3 needed to be assessed for hearing when he was a toddler - but he screamed the place down when headphones were put on him by our GP. Now, this GP was a friendly, gentle person but even he couldn't get difficult child 3 to cooperate so we dropped the idea of doing the test that day. Instead, we were referred to a pediatric clinic that deals with difficult children.</p><p></p><p>I expected more of the same at the clinic but the technician showed difficult child 3 what was needed. She also plugged right in to another obsession of his - a marble rolling game. YOu drop a marble in the top of the box and it rolls down a chute to plop at the bottom.</p><p>difficult child 3 was permitted to drop a marble, if he would wear the headphones. It took some persuading, but the technician succeeded without my help.</p><p></p><p>Then we needed difficult child 3 to drop a marble every time he heard a sound. He had language delay so it took some pantomime and practice, with the technician giving difficult child 3 a high-five payoff when he got the idea.</p><p></p><p>He really tried hard for the test - the concentration on his face was amazing. He did well enough for the technician to be able to tell us that his hearing was good.</p><p></p><p>He did trow a tantrum at the clinic, though - he was desperate to use the toilet, but just as I opened the door someone was drying their hands with the hand blower, and difficult child 3 screamed, refusing to go in. But he was desperate to go, and home was an hour's drive away. From that time on, he refused to go into public toilets for multiple customers. He would only use a disabled toilet, and only after I had shown him that the hand blower was switched off. It was several years before we were able to persuade him to use a public toilet and a few years more before he would use a hand blower.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 3's behaviour was not ODD. It was typical of autism.</p><p></p><p>A kid with ODD seems deliberately defiant. But this still gives the wrong impression - you get the feeling (from the name as well as from medico's attitudes) that ODD is the child choosing to be defiant as a matter of principle. "You said X, therefore I will insist on Y."</p><p></p><p>It is far more complex than that. A kid who is disrespected as a matter of course, who is treated as if their fears, their opinions, their very existence is subject to the whim of a much larger and stronger individual, will crave the day when he is finally bigger, stronger and can shout louder than the person who is doing this to him.</p><p></p><p>Some kids seem to need more control over their world than others. There can also be a number of medical conditions where this is a huge problem despite the best efforts of the most conscientious parents.</p><p></p><p>We recommend "The Explosive Child" a lot on this site, with good reason. It has helped us a great deal with difficult child 3, who was developing some very difficult oppositional behaviours. An aspect of autism is that they see the world as truly equal. We are all equal, in their eyes. A good thing? Not in a world which discriminates between adults and children, teachers and students, parents and offspring. We don't realise just how much we encourage inequality, until we have to live with a child who treats others as they themselves are treated.</p><p></p><p>Think back to the last time you heard a teacher chastising a student. can you imagine what happens if/when that student turns around and chastises the teacher?</p><p></p><p>When I think about it, I first heard this when easy child 2/difficult child 2 was a toddler. She would talk to me in the same tone with which she was talked to. I would ask her to do something, and if she got it wrong or hadn't listened, I would repeat myself with, "I told you to do it THIS way!"</p><p>Then one day she had asked for a drink of juice and I was tired and poured a cup of milk for her. She slammed her tiny fist down onto the table and announced, "I said I wanted JUICE!"</p><p>And she couldn't be disciplined out of this, because the more I punished for tis rudeness, the worse she got.</p><p>So instead, I moderated my tone and modelled the behaviour I wanted from her. Almost miraculously, her behaviour to me improved.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 3, in his first year at school, was minding his own business in the school playground. A teacher (who should have known better, but we always had problems with this person) rang a handbell loudly, right behind difficult child 3. Now, this teacher had been warned to avoid sudden loud noises around difficult child 3, but clearly SHE knew better and went ahead and did what she wanted.</p><p>difficult child 3 turned round and said loudly, "Well, EXCUUUSE ME!"</p><p>The teacher's immediate response was a withering, "No, you're supposed to excuse me," but by then difficult child 3 had dismissively turned his back on her (halfway through her response) and walked away.</p><p>[Frankly, she deserved that - but she never did realise that she had just demonstrated utter disrespect not only for difficult child 3, but for anything she had been warned about him].</p><p></p><p>I was told this story by several different pathways, all via kids who were witnesses to the incident and highly amused by it. difficult child 3 had Sunday School classmates who watched out for him in the school playground, they reported to their parents as well as to easy child, who taught a special after-school class.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 3's behaviour was also not ODD. It was purely reactive, to a painful stimulus. difficult child kids can react like this. Autistic kids (and some ADHD kids) can react suddenly to a shock stimulus like this, and sometimes their first reaction is to lash out -verbally, or physically. </p><p></p><p>When a small kid, or a difficult child, reacts like this it is important to work out why and if possible, try to prevent in future. You do this before you think of punishing them. Do you feel your son should have been punished for his reaction to the nurse? Because I don't. I bet the doctor and the nurse thought so, though.</p><p></p><p>The purpose of punishment is to teach the child the difference between right and wrong, and to show them what is not acceptable. But if the child cannot control their reaction, or cannot learn the lesson, or even already knows the lesson but can't moderate their behaviour - then punishment is pointless. Worse - it's damaging.</p><p></p><p>You can talk about a problem, you can model the correct behaviour, so you don't have to simply ignore the wrong reaction. But you should always keep in mind the ultimate aim - to raise the child to behave properly.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 171803, member: 1991"] I'll be tactful and discreet here - the doctor's a flamin' twerp. The nurse - does she REALLY work for a pediatrician? I do wonder - does this pediatrician mainly deal with newborns? It would explain a great deal. ANY health professional dealing with kids old enough to know what is going on (and to my mind, that is any child who is more tan a few weeks old) should show respect to the child and to the mother. ODD as a diagnosis - on the basis of a child who is being disrespected and bullied like this? That is using diagnosis as a weapon. I wonder how many kids are given this diagnosis, and medicated, purely because of an incident like this. OK, back to the child - if his phobia of doctors, barbers etc seem excessive to you (although after an experience like tis, it would be understandable) then get another opinion, preferably form someone with compassion. difficult child 3 & difficult child 1 have had some phobias which really got in the way of medical interventions. difficult child 3 needed to be assessed for hearing when he was a toddler - but he screamed the place down when headphones were put on him by our GP. Now, this GP was a friendly, gentle person but even he couldn't get difficult child 3 to cooperate so we dropped the idea of doing the test that day. Instead, we were referred to a pediatric clinic that deals with difficult children. I expected more of the same at the clinic but the technician showed difficult child 3 what was needed. She also plugged right in to another obsession of his - a marble rolling game. YOu drop a marble in the top of the box and it rolls down a chute to plop at the bottom. difficult child 3 was permitted to drop a marble, if he would wear the headphones. It took some persuading, but the technician succeeded without my help. Then we needed difficult child 3 to drop a marble every time he heard a sound. He had language delay so it took some pantomime and practice, with the technician giving difficult child 3 a high-five payoff when he got the idea. He really tried hard for the test - the concentration on his face was amazing. He did well enough for the technician to be able to tell us that his hearing was good. He did trow a tantrum at the clinic, though - he was desperate to use the toilet, but just as I opened the door someone was drying their hands with the hand blower, and difficult child 3 screamed, refusing to go in. But he was desperate to go, and home was an hour's drive away. From that time on, he refused to go into public toilets for multiple customers. He would only use a disabled toilet, and only after I had shown him that the hand blower was switched off. It was several years before we were able to persuade him to use a public toilet and a few years more before he would use a hand blower. difficult child 3's behaviour was not ODD. It was typical of autism. A kid with ODD seems deliberately defiant. But this still gives the wrong impression - you get the feeling (from the name as well as from medico's attitudes) that ODD is the child choosing to be defiant as a matter of principle. "You said X, therefore I will insist on Y." It is far more complex than that. A kid who is disrespected as a matter of course, who is treated as if their fears, their opinions, their very existence is subject to the whim of a much larger and stronger individual, will crave the day when he is finally bigger, stronger and can shout louder than the person who is doing this to him. Some kids seem to need more control over their world than others. There can also be a number of medical conditions where this is a huge problem despite the best efforts of the most conscientious parents. We recommend "The Explosive Child" a lot on this site, with good reason. It has helped us a great deal with difficult child 3, who was developing some very difficult oppositional behaviours. An aspect of autism is that they see the world as truly equal. We are all equal, in their eyes. A good thing? Not in a world which discriminates between adults and children, teachers and students, parents and offspring. We don't realise just how much we encourage inequality, until we have to live with a child who treats others as they themselves are treated. Think back to the last time you heard a teacher chastising a student. can you imagine what happens if/when that student turns around and chastises the teacher? When I think about it, I first heard this when easy child 2/difficult child 2 was a toddler. She would talk to me in the same tone with which she was talked to. I would ask her to do something, and if she got it wrong or hadn't listened, I would repeat myself with, "I told you to do it THIS way!" Then one day she had asked for a drink of juice and I was tired and poured a cup of milk for her. She slammed her tiny fist down onto the table and announced, "I said I wanted JUICE!" And she couldn't be disciplined out of this, because the more I punished for tis rudeness, the worse she got. So instead, I moderated my tone and modelled the behaviour I wanted from her. Almost miraculously, her behaviour to me improved. difficult child 3, in his first year at school, was minding his own business in the school playground. A teacher (who should have known better, but we always had problems with this person) rang a handbell loudly, right behind difficult child 3. Now, this teacher had been warned to avoid sudden loud noises around difficult child 3, but clearly SHE knew better and went ahead and did what she wanted. difficult child 3 turned round and said loudly, "Well, EXCUUUSE ME!" The teacher's immediate response was a withering, "No, you're supposed to excuse me," but by then difficult child 3 had dismissively turned his back on her (halfway through her response) and walked away. [Frankly, she deserved that - but she never did realise that she had just demonstrated utter disrespect not only for difficult child 3, but for anything she had been warned about him]. I was told this story by several different pathways, all via kids who were witnesses to the incident and highly amused by it. difficult child 3 had Sunday School classmates who watched out for him in the school playground, they reported to their parents as well as to easy child, who taught a special after-school class. difficult child 3's behaviour was also not ODD. It was purely reactive, to a painful stimulus. difficult child kids can react like this. Autistic kids (and some ADHD kids) can react suddenly to a shock stimulus like this, and sometimes their first reaction is to lash out -verbally, or physically. When a small kid, or a difficult child, reacts like this it is important to work out why and if possible, try to prevent in future. You do this before you think of punishing them. Do you feel your son should have been punished for his reaction to the nurse? Because I don't. I bet the doctor and the nurse thought so, though. The purpose of punishment is to teach the child the difference between right and wrong, and to show them what is not acceptable. But if the child cannot control their reaction, or cannot learn the lesson, or even already knows the lesson but can't moderate their behaviour - then punishment is pointless. Worse - it's damaging. You can talk about a problem, you can model the correct behaviour, so you don't have to simply ignore the wrong reaction. But you should always keep in mind the ultimate aim - to raise the child to behave properly. Marg [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Parent Support Forums
General Parenting
Confused-Need Advice
Top