Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Kjs, Jan 24, 2009.

  1. Kjs

    Kjs Guest

    You are all so wise. I haven't been around to get into all that had happened, and when I did finally sit down to write (twice) I had an error that the token had expired. Hoping it will work this time.

    After our screaming match the other night…I thought about the things that had been said. difficult child had an appointment the next day and I really didn't want to take him, I was too embarrassed about our behavior. Since therapist didn't say much I had no idea what he thought.

    Some things husband said at our session was unbelievable. Hurtful, mostly because he tried to justify everything. I do agree with the fact I think he went to try to show the therapist that it was ME.

    However husband showed his true colors. Unlike other attempts at counseling where he sat back and didn't say anything this time he did, which caused the screaming. When we get in an all out fight at home, husband does one thing that totally makes me lose it, he did it there.

    I told therapist that I am overwhelmed and I NEED help. husband's help. He is suppose to be a partner and he is not. I cannot always be made out to be the bad guy. I am not around for fun things with difficult child because I work. I told him I am the one that deals with school, teachers, meetings and making him do homework…which ends up in a fight between difficult child and myself. Then husband sides with difficult child. Not ever attending the meetings at school, not ever reading emails or looking in difficult child's folder. Always believing difficult child. Only for me to go through his folder and seeing the many missing papers or incomplete papers and all the papers we fought about, made him do only to see he never turned them in. husband's response is, 'He said he didn't have to do that. He said he was done, he said he turned it in' Well difficult child had said those things for 8 years and are always lies. So I take away the computer, I take away the xbox, I take away his phone…

    Things husband said are so untrue I don't know where he gets it from.

    He said " this is what gets me to blow…husband says (now he is yelling at the top of his lungs, lunging off his chair, making gestures)

    He says, non stop without breathing and without letting me say a word. 'who feeds the dogs " who feeds the dogs-who feeds Alex - who feeds the dogs-who feeds Alex-who feeds the dogs-who feeds Alex-who feeds the dogs-who feeds the dogs' Non stop. I am trying to say 'I am NOT home' So I repeat myself because he is going on and on with the same thing. Finally I say YOU DO. husband throws his hands in the air and says 'thank you very much' I looked at therapist and said, I am not home. I work midnight to noon. I am not there in the morning and sleeping at dinner time' (I do feed the family including dogs when I do not work, in addition to a second job, bills, errands, shopping, cleaning)
    But husband is screaming that over and over and not letting me talk. He only stops when I say what he wants to hear. After I looked at therapist and said I am not home, husband comes back loudly with 'OH..we all KNOW Kathy works nights, her and her BIG job, god forbid we don't know she works nights' ---does anyone have any idea how hard it is to stay awake all night? How it messes up your body? How you have to handle errands and phone calls, school and appointments when others are up. Giving up any time I may have to sleep.??

    husband is screaming and says, there were layoffs at his work a few weeks ago, that I never ask how his day was and I never asked about his job.
    - not true. WHEN I see him I ask how his day was. I did ask about the lay offs and different people and departments affected. He obviously chooses not to remember or actually believes I don't ask. by the way " he never once asks about my job. That doesn't bother me though.

    husband says screaming 'I have to get up every day and think she is going to take me off her medical insurance' I didn't get a chance to respond to that because he went into other stuff. But I thought about that and wondered WHERE did he come up with that??? If I took him off the insurance then I would have to pay the entire bill????so WTH??
    I brought up the phone thing and husband goes on and on about they all have bikinis on, nothing wrong with that, he pulls it out and tries to show therapist. I asked him how they put clothes on "anus" And also stated that I sure hope Nicolas is not a boy in "knowing Nicolas" He denied it. I pointed it out on the bill. Still he denied it. Said "I dispute that" I asked for his phone. therapist finally says give it to her. My opinion is it Doesn't matter if they have bikinis on, it is WRONG. Every minute for hours and hours???/ SICK
    therapist didn't go there at all.

    I did say he hasn't touched me in 14 years, not even a hug. Then I said he was sick and he was broke(impotent). therapist said, we'll determine who is sick and who is broke…

    Another post on difficult child's appointment, ties into this one.
    Lasted edited by : Jan 24, 2009
  2. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    Sounds like therapist is still trying to gather info and sort it all out.
    Hang in there by the time you are three months in things will get more clear to all. -RM
  3. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful


    I understand your embarrassed over yours and dhs behavior during the session.....but most likely it gave therapist some valuable insight into the dynamics of your relationship.

    Wow. I so get the "I FEED THE DOG" thing.:tongue: That is so my husband. He washes two or three dishes while leaving the rest and the whole kitchen a wreck and brags on it like he spent hours cleaning the whole house. ugh

    I ask 3 simple things of my husband: Go to work everyday, pay the bills, and mow the grass. And he can't do any of those 3 with any consistancy at all. Everything else I could and did manage myself. But usually I'm telling him he's not sick and needs to go to work, reminding him that so and so bill is overdue, and clenching my teeth because the yard has been mowed maybe 3 times during the whole summer.:mad:

    Wow. Fourteen years with no intimacy.....that's not really a relationship at all. (I'm not talking sex) And it doesn't sound like husband has been much of a "partner", either, as a parent or as even a friend. Sounds like you've both been hanging in limbo for 14 years.

    It was painful for me when I came to relize that my husband had never loved me. Actually, it was like being hit over the head with a 2 ton brick. But once I got that thru my thick skull.......behavior and such made sense. (either love really is blind, or I'm awfully good at lying to myself)

    That was when I woke up and realized I could only "change" me. Nothing I can do or say will change husband. He has to want it and be willing to try. So I laid it on the line to him after much thought and consideration. What I have to have in order for this 25 yr marriage to continue. And he has until I'm finished with nursing school to decide what he wants and is willing to do.

    Experts say that you will know when a relationship is over. Because when it is, there will be no doubt in your mind, there will be no emotion, not even anger. It will be just simply over.

    That's where I've been for 5 yrs. And I didn't believe it until I got there.

    Thru this process you need to find out what you want, what is good for you, what you need. You need to be willing to see your marriage for what it actually is, instead of what you want, hope, and pray it will be. And then you need to decide if you want to spend the rest of your life the way it is now if husband is unwilling to change.

    Sending many warm (((((hugs))))). It's a very painful process, I know. Vent all you need to.
  4. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    He sounds like a difficult child child to me. One that knows how to push your buttons and does it when he wants to turn the focus back on you and off of him. Have you felt like you are raising two kids the past 14 years?
  5. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

    Who feeds Alex...Who feeds the dogs....WHOOPDY FREAKIN DOOOOO! Does he want a trophy? Good grief! Does he think that's all he needs to do? Keep a diary during the week and make a list of all the things you do....EVERYTHING!

    Believe me, I think doctor sees his true colors.

    My girlfriend worked nights for years. She said the same really screws up your body.

    Your man needs a grip on reality.
  6. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    WHo feeds the DOG? Thats pretty good. But it does say a lot about his reality. Pretty good that he was screaming it over and over again. Irrational and out of control in front of the therapist. Nice.

    I think it is good that he showed his true colors at the meeting. I know it was likely very difficult to sit through.
    but like was stated, in 3 months, so much will be so much clearer.
    Whatever the outcome, this will be setting you up to be stronger and have a clear view of him and yourself.
    You will ready for what ever comes your way!
    I think this is great! I can already read the strength in your post, on general and here. Not that it is easy. But you really do hold the cards right now and he is gonna see this soon.
    You are becoming the Warrior you have always been inside!
  7. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Not that I'm a therapist, but in my humble opinion, I think you've replaced the mom he never had and he never grew up. If therapist can help him through this and husband works thru it all, you could end up with a very good relationship, whether the marriage survives or not.
  8. C.J.

    C.J. New Member

    Depending on the time of the month, I work 45-60 hours a week most months. When I walk in the house after a 10-12 hour day, as I walk through the house to put my coat in the closet, and put my purse in my bedroom, I notice dirty dishes in the kitchen and throughout the house, a bathroom which needs to have toilet paper placed on the dispenser, dirty kleenex on the floor - next to a wastebasket, socks and shoes discarded wherever, tv is on in the livingroom, computer is on, a cd player is on in N*'s room, and the mail in a new place each day.

    The first thing out of N*'s mouth is, "I fed the dog." Followed by, "What's for dinner?"

    If I don't gush my appreciation for her effort she made to walk from the kitchen with a 24 oz container to the garage 12 feet away and fill the container with dry dog food, and walk back the same 12 feet to put the food in the dog's dish, she's unhappy with me.

    We eat a lot of leftovers - mostly because I like to eat what I cook, and in that tiny passive-aggressive moment, I get to enjoy the fact she does not like to eat leftovers. Hey - there's food in the house, and I keep telling her if she doesn't like what I make for dinner, she can do it herself....

    Oooooooo I feel your pain.
  9. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    Please don't be embarassed about the 'screaming match' in front of the therapist. I think too that it's really a good thing. She got to see first hand how the relationship really is and what you're up against. Better this way than if he had come in all smiley-faced and mannerly and just pretended to be nice and civil to impress her!

    I know EXACTLY how it is to live with someone like that ... how incredibly frustrating it is to have to listen to all those lies that come out of their mouth ... and unbelievably, they seem to really be convinced that their twisted and distorted view of reality is the truth! It makes you crazy listening to it, makes you want to tear your hair out! My ex used to do his own version of the 'feed the dog' thing, and he's only still alive today because I never had a baseball bat within easy reach when he said it! :faint: ONE TIME in twenty years he fixed something for the kids for dinner when I was sick! I was in bed with the flu, thought I was gonna die! He kept coming to the door asking when I was going to get up and cook dinner. Finally, he opened up two cans of soup, dumped them in a pan, and heated them up for the kids to eat! And from that day forward, every time the subject came up, he'd get that smug look on his face and proudly proclaim, "I cook sometimes too!" TWO CANS OF SOUP in twenty years! It would make me so mad, I would be literally shaking with rage! But how can you fight 'logic' like that! You can't! That's really the way he saw it! To him, his microscopic contribution overshadowed the fresh homemade from-scratch meals I had made every single day for twenty years!

    Now that I'm out of it, I see it all so much more clearly. People like that have no real feelings for others at all, except for what they can do for THEM! Their world revolves entirely around THEMSELVES. They have no empathy for anyone, no earthly idea how their actions or their words make other people feel, and they don't care! They are completely incapable of putting themselves in someone elses place, seeing it from another viewpoint, because the only one who matters to them is THEM! For years I've tried to put a label on it and failed, but it all boils down to selfishness and being totally self-centered. People like this just seem to be born that way and it's almost impossible to live with unless you look forward to a life of misery, being 'used' and ignored!

    And your son is being affected by it. His fathers attitude is what's undermining your efforts about the school work. You tell him to do it but his fathers inaction and refusal to get in to it are telling him just the opposite. It's a very bad place for a kid to be in. It might help you a lot if you got counseling on your own too, in addition to the sessions with your husband. Living with someone like that for that long ruins your self-esteem and destroys your self confidence. I have a feeling that when the counselor starts challenging your husband on some of his views, he will refuse to go back! Good luck, hon. (((hugs)))
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2009
  10. Kjs

    Kjs Guest

    I am seeing a counselor too. therapist's wife. I see her every week. difficult child see's therapist every week and husband and I are suppose to go every week. However-there are not any openings for them for two weeks.

    This therapist is really good. If he were to come right out and challenge husband, I don't think he would come back. I don't know if therapist will do that. Atleast not yet.

    husband always told me whatever happened before I met him was none of my business. Most of what I learned, was from his brother. They haven't seen each other in 42 years, and his brother has no address or phone number, but calls about 2 or 3 times a year and asks for money. Once we "borrowed" him money. Never saw it again. So, no..we don't have money.

    husband never, ever mentions growing up or his dad. Never. but the night at the office, when I asked for help with the bills...husband said (yelling) My dad died when I was young and I was on my own. I paid my bills, I know how. I just do not feel sorry for him at all. I paid my bills too. Still do. And his.

    husband hasn't yelled at me since WEdnesday night. He has actually been talking in a real voice. One I haven't heard in a really long time. LOL he actually fixed a pipe that has been leaking into a garbage can for over a year. But I still have his phone. He hasn't asked for it. And I can't imagine ever WANTING him to touch me anymore. I did want him to for the past 14 years, but now to know he is looking at those videos, every minute for up to 5 hours WHEN I AM HOME. And at the bathroom. That is just discusting. Just totally discusting.

    So, is it really over? I am so hurt. But I don't feel like I want to die anymore. I am to angry to die and let him just have everything. On the other hand, I would love to meet people. Friends. And if one happened to be a male friend, I wouldn't care if husband liked it or not.

    Well, this is now. There has been a lot said. A lot to think about. But I know I am not wrong.

    No fighting since Wednesday. Not even with difficult child. I just let him. I have told him several times today that he is NOT allowed to speak to me that way. I had him do a few chores, which he didn't like and let me know. husband even told him to do one chore.

    Tonight difficult child went bowling with a couple friends. I spent 5 hours cooking two trays of lasagna and dessert bars. Tomorrow husband will take them over to his friends house. The one who lost his daughter last week. I am really beat. Will be up early. Taking easy child out to dinner to celebrate his birthday. Monday won't work for any of us so we will go tomorrow. easy child loves the Brewers. Counting down to the baseball season. So, husband had a good idea. Opening Day tickets. I found some. Not cheap, but bought him two opening day tickets. difficult child is giving him $26 for his golden birthday...26 on the 26.

    easy child was such a good boy. I wish I could go back these 26 years.

    Thank you guys for all your support.
  11. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    You're doing very well through this- you are a strong person and it is coming out in your actions. H must know that you are no push-ever or he wouldn't be putting forth his minimal effort- or at least his show- whichever it is. Hang in there. I don't know where this process is leading you, but I honestly believe you will be a happier person in the end. And, difficult child will be better off, too.
  12. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    KJS: The good news is you are seeking help and in therapy. The good news is you are
    setting boundaries and requiring respect for yourself and your values. The good news is you are not allowing all the pressures in your life to keep you in a state of dispare without pursuing the solution that esteems your place in this life. The good news is the unbarable conditions that require the attention in the safe relationship of a therapists care are being revealed. Whatever your complaints were to get into the session the fact is under those levels of communication noone is learning anything and it all hurts.
    I am so sorry that it is hard and painful and so traumatic when change is needed.
    In my view that is what the anger is there for, it is there to energise us into taking action because the boundaries are broken and the things that we fear and the saddness we feel is no way to live.
  13. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    SO despite hat must have seemed like a disaster, already you're seeing what can only be positive changes in husband's behaviour. It could be short-term, it could be simply exhaustion, but it is at least giving you a break.

    As for the "whofeedsthedog whofeedsthedog" over and over - I have a response.

    "We both do - so what? How about absolutely everything else?"

    Hang in there. It's early days, whether he is going to really make an effort, will make itself known very soon.

  14. Star*

    Star* call 911

    I'm thinking if your sole responsibility in a marriage/life/relationship is to come and feed the dog and you're resentful of it? Then I would get an automatic dog feeder.

    And as far as him yelling I FEED MY SON? Well after you get that automatic dog feeder? Tell him you think he has a choice - Either HE can get a second job so that YOU can be home to feed your son OR he can shut his mouth, be a Dad and stop whining about feeding HIS child.

    If that persisits? I would get microwave fun meals for my kid - show him how to use the microwave and tell dad to take a flight - anywhere.

    I admit I also had an x that said WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE YOU is NONE of your business. um....Okay - WHO ever said I wanted to know. I guess when my son was born there were things I wondered at that point because of medical history but after being adopted it really didn't matter. I'm sure throughout our marriage I was curious a time or two about the life before me, but considering that eventually I figured out he didn't even want a life WITH ME? I stopped being nosey, kept going to counseling and figured out a plan to get out.

    Kjs - it's not easy to do what you are doing - so please know you have my admiration for doing the best thing for you and your son. If it's your hearts desire to stay with this man and try to fix things? So be it. That is your perogative and your life. However as your friend, I have to say that the only person I see in your relationship trying to be an adult is you. I can't imagine what this must be doing to your son. To think that your husband has no more respect for himself or his son or wife than to spout off in front of you all and not want to try and even have a rational discussion? Ugh......more power to ya sister.

    Go get the automatic dog feeder and some microwave fun meals for your son and then lets see what your husband thinks he can broken record you with. What would it be then? WHO wipes my rear? WHO WHO IS IT WHO WIPES MY REAR WHO WHO WHO? Yeah I'm with Loth -
    WHOOPDIE FREAKING DO - bravo man - you just managed to put kibble in a bowl and make dinner for yourself AND your kid.

    And as far as loosing health insurance? OMG - WHAT ABOUT LOOSING HIS wife? Or doesn't he think you've had enough of his abusive crud? WOW -

    Honey I'm so sorry for you - really. And I'm not saying that you aren't contributing to these fights, but WOW - you sure are dealing with someone very mature there.

  15. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    Just wanted to send hugs and support.