Countdown to Job Corps...Will he make it?

Lil

Well-Known Member
But does he live at home with you?

While my enabling heart might give him another chance, Jabber is against it and I won't ask him to change his mind. He stole over and over from us. We can't excuses that.
I still don't think "on drugs" is accurate necessarily.

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Childofmine

one day at a time
Lil you see right that if he won't do any of it there is nothing you can do.

That is the case today.

But things will change one way or the other.

You could offer that to him at the right time as another way forward and if he refused then the same detachment boundaries stand.

But he could change his mind if he gets sick and tired enough.

First, you have to detach for you. Then for him. And he may decide to do something different or not. The main thing is it has to be for you first. That is vital.
 

pasajes4

Well-Known Member
But he can't come home. So what does that leave?

That is what he needs to figure out. We can't do it for them and expect things to change. His life may never be what you dreamed for it to be. The longer we hold on to those expectations the longer everyone stays stuck. That is the sad and ugly truth. Regardless of their issues, and what the cause is, they need to do the work. When we became adults, things did not always go smoothly, sometimes we wanted to crawl home to mommy. Some of us may have even had parents that let us come home, but the expectation was that it was only for a short time.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
...and he's not washing windows again today. Texted and told him I had to work and could he be there before noon and he said not today, he just got kicked out of the apartment by "that couple" and had figure out what to do. With just over a week left...they couldn't let him stay just that much longer? But whatever. I told him he could still go to his apartment. We'd help him clean up and spray for bugs again. He said he thinks he can stay with someone else for a week there at the same complex.

He still has his job but has to tell them he's leaving in just over a week. Hopefully he gives notice and doesn't just quit, in case he ever needs to try to go back. I told him that. So, I don't know what's what right now.

We'll see. As always, it's up in the air.

In the meantime...I'm back in my office to work my own job in preparation for my 2 weeks sick leave. Best get to it. :(
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Hi Lil, I have been reading along. Actually I see the cup half full. I see your son as living on his terms, which is half of what you want. The missing pieces, I know so well, are major, goals, attitude, follow-through.

So what is the 50 percent that he is doing: solving problems (today he is solving his temporary living situation), he has quasi independence in that he does what he wants, when he wants it, he is working, he is able to make "friends" -- not who we might pick but hey, he is 20.

In handling his living situation he is already responding to natural consequences; I believe he will do the same in every other sphere of his life.

I kicked my son out 3 years ago. Somebody else took him in, but it turned out that he used that time to secure SSI.

Am I in love with the idea that this monthly SSI payment funds his marijuana and not much else. No. But, whose business is it? Not mine.

We do not get to choose Lil what are our adult sons' goals.

You may remember that my tenure on this board began just one month ago. I was frustrated when my grand plan to push my adult son into enrolling in internet classes did not work, (imagine that). My genius (read desperate) idea was that I simultaneously enroll in some of those same classes so that I could prompt (read whip) him into succeeding at my goals.

The ways in which I was wrong, Lil, stun me.

With respect to neurological testing, I share your frustration, Lil.

I sought out psychiatrists as my son grew up. When he was a toddler, we saw a neuropsychologist.

Perhaps it would have resolved something, had I dragged him to a neuropsychologist as a teenager when I still had control. I think not.

Our sons' issue is one of will, as you say.

Fortunately or unfortunately they are young men who want to be autonomous, self-determining people....but long still to be affectively tied to strong, nurturing and in my case indulgent mothers.

But he WON'T go. And even if he would, he is the sort of person who would simply blame everything on it. He wouldn't learn to function with it. It would become an excuse. "I can't hold.a job because I have Aspergers."
That is exactly what happened in our case. Not Asperger's, but other diagnoses. I am seeing belatedly that if he chooses to base his life defined by and defining himself by limitation and not successes, this is his choice to make, not mine.

Increasingly, however, I think he is deciding to change. He bought a wallet. He bought a cell phone and connected it. He identifies with people who function and make healthy choices and thinks he is like them, not the druggies. It's a start.

But he could change his mind if he gets sick and tired enough.
Yes, Childofmine, that is the hope. But I recognize now this is his choice to make.

And you know, Childofmine, as I tighten the boundaries I am feeling less pain, less depressed, even happy, more relaxed.
First, you have to detach for you. Then for him. And he may decide to do something different or not. The main thing is it has to be for you first. That is vital.
Is it not a process, COM? I detached 3 1/2 years ago for me. But then I slipped about 20 times, thinking that enabling him could work. It never did.
That is what he needs to figure out. We can't do it for them and expect things to change. His life may never be what you dreamed for it to be. The longer we hold on to those expectations the longer everyone stays stuck.
Their lives may not be what we dreamed for them, but is this not better?

I had my dreams...they were a hundred times more than anybody thought I could be, attain. Even me. I exceeded my own expectations for myself exponentially. Why? I grew. At each juncture of disappointment and crisis, I made a decision.

(I had nobody to help me. But looked at another way, I had nobody to stop me.)

And each decision at each choice point, I made from a position of greater wisdom, confidence and strength.

Is that not what we want for our sons, Lil, and are they not doing it? At least the baby steps of it?
 
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Lil

Well-Known Member
So...tonight is Game of Thrones night. Our son did not come. I have not heard from him since before noon when we texted about his living situation and the window washing, or lack thereof.

I had wanted to tell him something about the new janitor and him being able to go clean when she was there evenings. She even lives in the same apt. complex. I asked him to call me. He didn't respond.

The woman from Job Corps called me later on the home phone, looking for him. She was actually working at home on a Sunday trying to get in touch with the kids that hadn't gotten back with her. I told her I wasn't sure what was going on with him, but I think he's freaked out because we thought he had 4 to 6 weeks, not less than 2 and he has to quit his job and clean out his apartment and various things. In the end, I told her to just call him. He's 20 years old and doesn't live here so mom can't really speak for him (and to not tell him I said he was freaked please). She said he could put it off to the end of June if he wanted. Of course, I don't know what his living situation will be.

I texted him that she would be calling so he would answer the unfamiliar number. But again, he didn't respond at all.

That he didn't come for Game of Thrones and pizza has me concerned. I suppose he could have found a person with HBO to mooch off. I guess if he wasn't fine, he'd be calling.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
Well, it's now Tuesday and not a peep. His phone isn't turned off...I know because I used Jabber's gps to see. It doesn't locate phones that aren't on. He's still there at the apartment complex. Whether he's working or not, I don't know.

The whole darn thing boils down to 3 choices.
1) He goes to Job Corps next Tuesday.
2) He goes to Job Corps the end of June. Job Corps rep said that was doable.
3) He doesn't go to Job Corps in the foreseeable future.

Why can't he just give me a darn answer so I know whether to go see the judge?
 

Childofmine

one day at a time
Lil this is hard stuff right now but consider this: can you just lay it down and do nothing right now?

Just step way way back and let things evolve on their natural course without any action from you.

He is well aware of it all, already.

Hard to do but it is another step in your journey forward. Hugs.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
Truthfully, I don't even care which option he takes. But if he wants to go next Tuesday I need to know so I can get to court tomorrow. They only have court on Wednesdays. So I need to know something by tomorrow morning at the very latest.

I'm actually more annoyed at him ignoring my texts and not acknowledging he got them. It's rude darnit!
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
Maybe he's not intending to be rude. He could just be stuck - not sure which way he wants to go and/or how to get there, and thinking he has to figure it out for himself so not asking or responding.

Doesn't make it any less frustrating!
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
So...tonight is Game of Thrones night. Our son did not come. I have not heard from him since before noon when we texted about his living situation and the window washing, or lack thereof.

You did the right thing, Lil. All this is too important to not speak the things we know are true. Your son made a decision. This is a huge change. He is standing up. He knows this will hurt you, that you offered and he refused. At some level, this is why he did it. It's a screwed up way to begin taking responsibility, but he did it.

If it were me, I would keep the pain of it out of the picture. Calm / dominant, like Cesar with Cartman.

There are no atheists in foxholes, right?

So, here is a similar story. Maybe it is a similar story. Part of the reason I went back to take that degree when I did is to teach my kids that we could recover ourselves, that we could take our lives in whatever direction we chose, any time we chose to do it. Our son was living with us again on the day I was graduating with honors. In a way Lil, when I decided to go back to school, it was scary. I might have failed at it; I might have been away from it too long, and have failed. Or it may have turned out that my mother had been right all along, and that I just didn't have the intelligence it would take to graduate ~ not from there and maybe, not from anywhere, at all.

So, that was a heart on the line kind of vulnerability, when I decided to do that ~ when I decided to go back to school.

But I had not failed.

And our son refused to get out of bed when I went in to wake him up to come celebrate my walking across that stage.

In a way, it's the same kind of hurt. Or anger, or whatever it is I felt knowing my own son ~ I don't know. Didn't love me, or maybe, hated me or whatever that was about.

I walked the stage, took the degree and the honor and proof of honor and etc that went
with it ~ especially at my age then, and especially since that happened after that first therapist and what was going on with my mother and our family and etc.

And as I crossed the stage where the pretty classy private school I took that degree from was held? Out of the audience, I heard my first granddaughter squealing: "Grandma!!! Look, there's grandma!"

:O)

She was so surprised. She was two, and she was so surprised and pleased to see grandma so unexpectedly onstage.

I am not sure how that relates to what happened between you and your son. But that is the story that came up for me, so I told it to you.

As always Lil and Jabber, I am and we all are, pulling for you two.

And your son of course, though we don't know him.

Cedar
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
I had wanted to tell him something about the new janitor and him being able to go clean when she was there evenings. She even lives in the same apt. complex. I asked him to call me. He didn't respond.

I am sorry. You are doing the right thing. Now, for your own sake and especially as you prepare for your upcoming surgery, you need to let go, Lil.

You have done all you know or could learn.

That's it. There is no more. What more there is will be for your son to decide.

I am sorry this is happening, sorry for the hurt and confusion and anger of it.

The woman from Job Corps called me later on the home phone, looking for him.

Oh, no.

"...looking for him."

She said he could put it off to the end of June if he wanted.

Yay.

Light at the end of the tunnel or whatever this is.

Just a little light.

But again, he didn't respond at all.

Can you ask the police to do a check? I forgot what they are called, when you can ask the police to ~ a welfare check? Is that it? Whatever it's called, when we are concerned about someone we love who might be in trouble, we can ask the police to please do a welfare check.

I have done that for our daughter. When we were down South and she was falling apart up North. They checked her for me more than once, and called me back afterwords.

I guess if he wasn't fine, he'd be calling.

I would ask for the police to determine that he is alright. If you do that now and learn your son is just exercising his right to be a little rebel, then next time you will not be as frightened by this lack of response.

We are their mothers. We love them. This is scary enough without adding in terror that is not necessary.

Why can't he just give me a darn answer so I know whether to go see the judge?

If it were me, I would text him. If there is no response, I would ask for the welfare check as soon as the police can get there. I would tell my son in the text that unless I heard something from him within one hour (or whatever time you think), the police would be around to verify that my child, whose freaking mother I am, is alive and is alright and hasn't overdosed or worse.

That is what I would do.

Nevermind what I said about calm dominance.

We will be calmly dominant later, once we know he is alright.

Cedar
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
Well, I sent one more text.

I'm going to take your silence as uncertainty as to whether you are going. That's completely understandable. If you haven't called the lady from job corps you really should. She might be able to help you figure it out. If you still want me to go to the judge tomorrow I will. We just have to talk tonight about the approach to use. Hope you are okay. I love you.

As usual, no response. It's the no response that's getting to me.

As he's done nothing on community service, I'm stuck saying, "Judge, he's leaving next Tuesday, with your permission, but he will need to the end of June to finish the community service there." Worse, if he's still not sure, I'm stuck saying, "Judge, in the event you give him permission and he goes next Tuesday, he'll need more time. Of course, if he doesn't go he won't. So we're asking for permission to go and more time in the event he goes but we're not asking for anything if he stays."

How lame am I going to sound?

I don't want to NOT go and then have him decide he's going, because there is NO getting in front of the judge prior to the 26th and I'm going to be laid up and unable to do it.

Worse, if he's blowing off everyone like he is me...he's losing his chance at going next week and perhaps ever. If he wants to go they have to get him his travel arrangements, plane ticket, etc. He can not go and maybe go in another year if June doesn't suit him. But if he just blows this off, he may be foreclosed from ever going.

If it were me, I would text him. If there is no response, I would ask for the welfare check as soon as the police can get there

Well that would be great if there weren't roughly 150 apartments in the complex and I have no idea what one he's in.

I may threaten it though.

I haven't tried just calling him, thinking he may be busy or at work. He does still have a job though I don't know the hours. All I know is I'm really, really becoming annoyed at the lack of response.

A simple, "ok" is not too much to expect!
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Possible for the landlady to knock on the door and report back?

Er...yes, I have done that, too.

If you believe he may be at work ~ well, you know what I am going to say next. Just a call to see whether my son is at work today. You could say there was a potential problem with a ride to work or something.

Okay you guys. So, here is the thing. This is why the person who manages the homeless shelter where our daughter was homeless actually had the gall to question my daughter as to why her mother was calling the shelter regarding her mail and such if she was actually, legitimately homeless.

At forty years old.

Cedar
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
So I sent one more that said, Seriously, if you don't respond to this text, even if it's just with a "K" I'm gonna start freaking the hell out. I would just like at this point to know you are alive.

Finally a response.

Sorry, I don't have good reception and my phones been off for the most part, I'm okay.

I said, Thank you. Please read these texts and call today or tonight when you can.

His response? Okay Love you.

Not a call of course but fine. Now if he screws up so be it - I know he's alive and got the darn texts!

I know it sounds like I'm being ridiculous and clingy...but it would be completely different if things were just going along smoothly. It's not like I haven't gone a couple weeks before without hearing from him! But this time it immediately followed: "I just got kicked out and I don't know where I'm going to go and I'm so depressed and down and out, etc." Then radio silence.

I just wanted to know he hadn't been eaten by cockroaches or something.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
As he's done nothing on community service, I'm stuck saying, "Judge, he's leaving next Tuesday, with your permission, but he will need to the end of June to finish the community service there." Worse, if he's still not sure, I'm stuck saying, "Judge, in the event you give him permission and he goes next Tuesday, he'll need more time. Of course, if he doesn't go he won't. So we're asking for permission to go and more time in the event he goes but we're not asking for anything if he stays."

How lame am I going to sound?

Well, it is what it is. Make the path. Let me rephrase that. I would make the path, but then I did not begin taking charge of myself where my children are concerned until they were much older than your child is, today. So, what I really meant was that you could make the path for him. That you could cover the options for him because you can.

Next time, whatever you did this time will inform your decision regarding how to respond in that time.

Cedar

But again, Cedar does not recommend calling the homeless shelter repeatedly after the children are forty.

That was like, an attempt at humor.

:O)
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
So, what I really meant was that you could make the path for him. That you could cover the options for him because you can.

Which is why I'm still willing to go to court tomorrow...to leave the path open. But really, why waste my time if he's not going?

Like I said, he's got 3 choices. He has to pick one. But if he doesn't call them pretty darn soon, he'll be down to 2 choices...or even 1.

That's up to him.

I know he's alive and okay now. Everything else I can deal with.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Finally a response.

Well.

I don't know whether to be relieved or so mad at him.

Not a call of course but fine. Now if he screws up so be it - I know he's alive and got the darn texts!

Yes. And I am so happy too to know he is alive and doing well.

Oh, that little brat.

To do this to us, and I am not even his mother, I mean.

I think I am having heart palpitations.

I just wanted to know he hadn't been eaten by cockroaches or something.

Well, yeah. I wish I'd thought of that response for that man who manages the homeless shelter. Well I know. I will keep it for future reference.

In case I do not get really healthy before the next time someone goes homeless.

Preparation matters.

Cedar
 
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