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Substance Abuse
Court Tuesday - not good
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<blockquote data-quote="susiestar" data-source="post: 507165" data-attributes="member: 1233"><p>I know the semester may go down the tubes if he cant' pay the fines. But why should you pay his fines? Has he ever paid you back for things that you paid for him or that he borrowed $ for? </p><p></p><p>DId you go and steal things? Given the MH issues (possible bipolar), the judge MAY agree to treatment and a pmt schedule. This often depends on the atty. Does difficult child have an atty? I would NOT pay for one for him. A legal aid atty might be able to help, but difficult child may be able to ask for treatment for MH and sub abuse and that might get the judge to order those things. </p><p></p><p>If the judge won't allow him to do weekends or some arrangement, then I think difficult child may need to sit in jail for the time. Yes, it will be HARD for you. It won't be great fun for difficult child, but it might be the wake-up call he needs to turn things around. Having you pay the fine will NOT help him to see that he needs to change. It will help reinforce that Mom will get him out of trouble and Mom's money will fix things so he doesn't need to work hard or get up and go to class or not commit crimes or get wasted.</p><p></p><p>If difficult child won't show you his grades, it is because they are not good. Period. If he had good grades he would be very proud and would be telling you and using them as a reason that you should help him, pay his fines and restitution, buy him new things, give him his license/car back. He isn't doing that, so they are not passing/good. </p><p></p><p>Many of us have begged for the police to help us with difficult child problems incl sub abuse and MH treatment. Many difficult children have LOTS of times where they got warnings or the cops couldn't/wouldn't do something to help. The lack of any real consequences reinforced the difficult child idea that they can get away with anything and the only people who think they have a problem or did something wrong are Mom and/or Dad. This is the chance for difficult child to experience real world, natural, logical consequences in a BIG way. This is your chance to let him truly see what his future will be like if he stays on his current path. </p><p></p><p>If you pay his fines you are telling him that it wasn't "that bad" and that you don't believe he should be punished other than going to meetings. If you require 15 meetings then you will be paying him $32.60 per meeting! Around here meetings are under an hour for lunch meetings and maybe 90 min for an evening meeting, 2-3 hrs for a monthly birthday potluck speaker meeting. This is paying him at the very least $10.87 per hour for the monthly long meeting, and at the most $32.60 for a lunch meeting. An actually the lunch meetings try for 45 min, so that would be $43.47 per hour!!! ($32.60 divided by 45 min = $0.72.4 per min times 60 min = $43.47). I KNOW that his sobriety is worth that TO YOU, but what is it worth to HIM? </p><p></p><p>What if you were the person he stole from? What would you want to happen to the person who violated you by stealing from you? Would you want his parents to pay the fine and send him back to college, esp if you knew the problems he had and how he refused to get a job or good grades or to get help for his MH and sub abuse issues? </p><p></p><p>I can't tell you 100% that it is right to let him sit in jail for 2 weeks. I care very much, but I don't know all of the situation and I am not there living this the way you are. I do think that someone posted a quote that basically said when you help someone and it feels awful then you are enabling them. It is a VERY subjective decision about a VERY complex situation. From my point of view it seems that sitting in jail for 2 weeks or so, then having to deal with asking his professors if they will allow him to make up the work seems like it has the better chance of helping him see that he is powerless over alcohol/substances and that he needs help. </p><p></p><p>If you choose to pay the fines, then it was what YOU needed to do and what you thought was the best way to handle this. I respect you and will respect your decision because you are the one who has to live with it every day. </p><p></p><p>I hope this doesn't sound too harsh or mean. I don't intend for it to. I just wish there were easier ways to handle these complex situations. </p><p></p><p>I am sorry you are in so much pain and turmoil over this. (((((hugs)))))</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="susiestar, post: 507165, member: 1233"] I know the semester may go down the tubes if he cant' pay the fines. But why should you pay his fines? Has he ever paid you back for things that you paid for him or that he borrowed $ for? DId you go and steal things? Given the MH issues (possible bipolar), the judge MAY agree to treatment and a pmt schedule. This often depends on the atty. Does difficult child have an atty? I would NOT pay for one for him. A legal aid atty might be able to help, but difficult child may be able to ask for treatment for MH and sub abuse and that might get the judge to order those things. If the judge won't allow him to do weekends or some arrangement, then I think difficult child may need to sit in jail for the time. Yes, it will be HARD for you. It won't be great fun for difficult child, but it might be the wake-up call he needs to turn things around. Having you pay the fine will NOT help him to see that he needs to change. It will help reinforce that Mom will get him out of trouble and Mom's money will fix things so he doesn't need to work hard or get up and go to class or not commit crimes or get wasted. If difficult child won't show you his grades, it is because they are not good. Period. If he had good grades he would be very proud and would be telling you and using them as a reason that you should help him, pay his fines and restitution, buy him new things, give him his license/car back. He isn't doing that, so they are not passing/good. Many of us have begged for the police to help us with difficult child problems incl sub abuse and MH treatment. Many difficult children have LOTS of times where they got warnings or the cops couldn't/wouldn't do something to help. The lack of any real consequences reinforced the difficult child idea that they can get away with anything and the only people who think they have a problem or did something wrong are Mom and/or Dad. This is the chance for difficult child to experience real world, natural, logical consequences in a BIG way. This is your chance to let him truly see what his future will be like if he stays on his current path. If you pay his fines you are telling him that it wasn't "that bad" and that you don't believe he should be punished other than going to meetings. If you require 15 meetings then you will be paying him $32.60 per meeting! Around here meetings are under an hour for lunch meetings and maybe 90 min for an evening meeting, 2-3 hrs for a monthly birthday potluck speaker meeting. This is paying him at the very least $10.87 per hour for the monthly long meeting, and at the most $32.60 for a lunch meeting. An actually the lunch meetings try for 45 min, so that would be $43.47 per hour!!! ($32.60 divided by 45 min = $0.72.4 per min times 60 min = $43.47). I KNOW that his sobriety is worth that TO YOU, but what is it worth to HIM? What if you were the person he stole from? What would you want to happen to the person who violated you by stealing from you? Would you want his parents to pay the fine and send him back to college, esp if you knew the problems he had and how he refused to get a job or good grades or to get help for his MH and sub abuse issues? I can't tell you 100% that it is right to let him sit in jail for 2 weeks. I care very much, but I don't know all of the situation and I am not there living this the way you are. I do think that someone posted a quote that basically said when you help someone and it feels awful then you are enabling them. It is a VERY subjective decision about a VERY complex situation. From my point of view it seems that sitting in jail for 2 weeks or so, then having to deal with asking his professors if they will allow him to make up the work seems like it has the better chance of helping him see that he is powerless over alcohol/substances and that he needs help. If you choose to pay the fines, then it was what YOU needed to do and what you thought was the best way to handle this. I respect you and will respect your decision because you are the one who has to live with it every day. I hope this doesn't sound too harsh or mean. I don't intend for it to. I just wish there were easier ways to handle these complex situations. I am sorry you are in so much pain and turmoil over this. (((((hugs))))) [/QUOTE]
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