Crazy human beings need to lose the guns. Latest story...

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by MidwestMom, Mar 14, 2014.

  1. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    We all remember George Zimmerman and his "stand your ground" murder of the seventeen year old boy who was unarmed. I'm beginning to question something I always believed in...our "right" to own guns for protection. I am starting to think things have gone too far and that too many crazy people who WANT to be able to shoot people own guns for the macho-ness of it. I heard this story on the radio and it floored me, although by now it shouldn't.

    I don't have a link.

    Apparently, a father came home from somewhere (work maybe?) opened his teen daughter's bedroom door and found her in a passionate embrace with a teenage boy. He shot and killed the boy. And I'll bet my money on it that with the increasingly backward mindset of our country these days (back to the Wild, Wild West) he will get away with it. He is already saying he thought she was being raped.

    I know some men are overprotective of their daughters, many who have been having sex for years without their knowledge. But to kill somebody for that? I can see picking him up by the scruff of the collar and tossing him out of the room with some choice words, or even, if the guy is more animalistic, punching him, but to KILL him? Did he really think his daughter wasn't equally to blame? It's 2014. Do any of us really believe our teens will be virgins when they get married? Would YOUR husband get that crazed if your teen daughter was found in bed with another teenage boy? The ages weren't mentioned, but I'm assuming this was not an older man with a thirteen year old or it probably would have been brought up.

    Honestly, people are going crazy with shooting people in thier homes. I hear about crazy incidents all the time. Shooting should be only if you or your loved one's life is at risk.

    I'm beginning to think that before you can own a gun, you should have to take an extensive psychological examination...lol. I know about the 2nd amendment, but I don't think the Founding Fathers could have envisioned how our world has evolved. I doubt they pictured the possibility of our new technology and school shootings, which are scary enough.

    Is it just me? Am I weird? (Well, I know I'm weird, but...I think ya get it)!

    Actually, Mr. 36 is pretty obnoxious. Usually he confines it to the family. What if he mouths off to the wrong macho man and gets shot by some guy with a concealed weapon who is in a bad mood or drunk?

    I know a few people who have had guns drawn on them. Gives me the creeps.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2014
  2. muttmeister

    muttmeister Well-Known Member

    I know we're not supposed to be political here and maybe this is but I really think this is an issue that people need to be discussing rationally. Most of what I hear from both sides is just knee-jerk rhetoric. I agree with you that the Founding Fathers never could have envisioned how our world has evolved and we need to do something to preserve our safety and that of our kids.

    I own a gun and would not be afraid to use it to protect myself or my family so I don't think you can put me in the traditional anti-gun lobby. However, I do think that EVERYBODY who wants a gun should have to pass an extensive background check and I would not be opposed to some kind of required classes to train you in gun safety, safe storage etc. before you could buy one. I also believe that guns should be registered. I know all of the arguments against that but they don't hold water with me. I also think we need to ban certain kinds of guns and ammunition. You don't need a machine gun to hunt a deer or shoot a burglar. The number of people killed by guns in this country (both on purpose and by accident) is a disgrace. And the way the laws are written now basically allow you to get away with murder. If you don't like what somebody is doing, just shoot them and say they scared you and you were protecting yourself and you pretty much can get away with it even if you started it - at least if you are white and relatively well to do.

    In spite of the fact that, according to every poll I've seen, the majority of Americans want some common sense gun regulations, I don't think it is going to happen. The gun lobby is so well funded that they have a majority of Congress bought and paid for and every time these ideas are put to a vote, they lose big time. Money talks. The gun lobby has also learned that fear is the best weapon for getting people to do what you want so they convince enough people that "the government is coming for all of your guns" and a lot of people are too stupid to figure out that they are being used. It is sad....and dangerous for us all.
     
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  3. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    The daughter reportedly told the dad she did not know the boy fwiw
     
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I heard that, but I wonder if the boy kept doing her while the father was there. If not, still no reason to kill him.
     
  5. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Given what I have studied of history, the scenario of a boy having sex with the daughter probably WAS a scenario that the Founding Fathers had in mind. Remember, back then women were NOT equal to men under the law, they were the PROPERTY of their father or husband.

    I do think it is crazy to shoot someone having sex with your child unless it is clearly rape. Not knowing the boy does NOT mean she did not agree to have sex with him. It is sad to me, but MANY teens have sex just to have it, far outside anything that could be considered a relationship, meaningful or otherwise. Clear evidence of rape would be needed to justify a shooting in my mind.

    I do think the gun lobbies are too powerful, but I think ALL lobbies are too powerful in our government. I just don't know that there is a way to stop that. I do think more screening should be done before you can own a gun. I KNOW, for a stone cold FACT, that I should not have a gun in my home. NOT because I would shoot someone else, but because I would likely use it during a migraine to make the pain stop. They are THAT BAD and I can become totally irrational. I know this, and this is why I do not have a gun. I am literally a minute from my father and his extensive collection of them, and if I need the help he is closer than a cop. He also knows the cops, and is one of very few people I think is a responsible gun owner. The safety rules that he taught me are a major reason that I KNOW that I am not able to be a responsible gun owner. For that I thank him.

    I feel terrible for this young man's family. I sincerely hope htey sue for wrongful death and win, because it is doubtful that they will see any justice through the courts. I cannot believe that ANYONE bought Zimmerman's claim of self defense.
     
  6. 1905

    1905 Well-Known Member

    Supposedly the boy was "reaching for something". ...bs...but who will refute it? Of course he'll get away with it.

    A few weeks ago the man who killed a kid for playing his music too loud was found not guilty of murder. He fired shots, missed some kids and killed one. He was found not guilty for killing the one boy, but found guilty of almost killing the others. What sense does that make? He's going to be in prison anyone, but how would he be not guilty of murder if those other missed shots were crimes? How would he be not guilty of killing an actual boy? I can't wrap my head around that. Plus, his neighbors said on the stand he walked around saying he wished he could kill someone. Then later he said he was the victim, said on the prison phone.

    Too many people see others get away with this and think it's ok to do it. Someone is texting in a movie and then he was shot by a retired law enforcer who himself had been texting a minute before. He could have gotten up and moved. Or even punched him...that's wrong too..but shoot? It's sad.
     
  7. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    Not to beat a dead horse - but the father asked the daughter if she knew the young man in the moment and the daughter replied "no" - so the father thought he was raping her. That's a whole different scenario.
     
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I don't know, Sig. Unless he heard her screaming before he saw it...I don't buy it. How did they even have that conversation with his daughter while she was allegedly being raped? Something stinks to me. And he could have pulled the guy off and called 911, while holding the gun to the kid's head He most certainly had other options other than to kill him. I think the gun swagger is going to far and, as time cycles, it will change and go back eventually.

    We lost a beloved child on this site because some cops got frisky with their guns. I really think they are very often misused.

    My husband is a protective father, but if he was in the same boat, I know he'd take the gun and threaten the boy until he heard the story, but nobody would end up dead.
     
  9. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    Again, not to beat a dead horse but the father was awakened by another child at 2am & told that someone had gotten into the house, and then found a stranger apparently raping his daughter -- the whole thing is a tragedy. Including the daughter who lied about knowing him.
     
  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Well, not going to argue that daughter is a major difficult child and an idiot. She knows her father, probably knew he was fond of his guns and had loaded weapons around, yet still told her father that she didn't know her boyfriend so he was killed. I think she should be charged with something too.

    Yes, it is an all around tragedy. It is also too bad, in my opinion, that some parents get so nutso over teens having sex that the kids are afraid to tell them the truth. Not saying it's a good thing for a too-young teen to have sex with somebody, but it happens and it is what it is. Parents need to be willing to hear what is going on with their kids, and not freak out over "moral" issues. Dangerous issues, yes. Moral issues, I would say no. Better she had shared, although who knows? Maybe crazed father would have threatened to kill her boyfriend...I know people who live with this mentality (shrug). I have nothing against responsible gun owners. I live amongst them in my area of the world.

    But I agree. Bottom line: Tragedy
     
  11. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    I'd be very interested in tracing guns involved in a limited number of "accidental" deaths, and compare them to the life of the same number of guns involved in criminal deaths. There is such a strong push by one side to never ever trace or limit guns. But I am of the opinion that all guns in the USA start out as legal guns. If only bad people with guns kill people, and only good people can get guns ergo we should not keep track of guns, where did these guns that kill people come from?

    (I also suppose that this is far too logical of a question to ask of many people who support unfettered access to guns.)
     
  12. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Witzend ... they're stolen. :)
    And yes, it does appear that the girl is a difficult child. She's going to need major therapy.
     
  13. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    Even with the smiley I can't be certain whether you're serious. There are many people who will absolutely agree with that statement but obviously that can't be the case in every situation involving a gun that turns bad. All guns begin life as something that is perfectly legal.

    Either way I am of the opinion that any person who is careless enough with a gun that it is stolen and used in a crime should be prosecuted for that same crime. I also feel that anyone who is "careless" enough with a gun that someone is "accidentally" shot should be charged with at the very least attempted manslaughter whether they pulled the trigger or not. FWIW, the Captain of the SWAT team that spoke at our Rotary last week agreed with me.
     
  14. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Agree too, Witz.
     
  15. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    She could reasonably make the argument that her dad is a gun nut and she was frightened that he would shoot her if she told him the truth. Not that that would be a reasonable reaction for him to have, but she could say that with a straight face and get away with it.
     
  16. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Witz, I'm right there with you on this particular issue.
     
  17. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I agree with-the potential manslaughter charge for someone who "accidentally" shoots someone.
    In regard to the guns being stolen, I'm not a mathematician, but I do know that a lot of them are stolen. I also know that people can pass background ID tests to get guns initially and then go on to commit crimes, and they are never caught. Someone could have a long history and never get caught. I would be interested in knowing how many people would actually be refused a sale based on a background check if it were done in all 50 states. As it is, I think you can simply drive somewhere else and buy one.
    I guess we've got to start somewhere.
    Yes, it's quite possible that the girl was afraid of her dad. And for good reason. Seems they have impulsivity and poor judgment in common. :(
     
  18. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Okay I will preface this with the fact that we own guns...long guns. I dont believe in military style weapons being sold to just anyone. As someone else said, you dont use an AK47 to kill a deer. It would damage the meat too much.

    I grew up with only one gun in my family and that was a family heirloom. It was my grandfather's gun from WWI. We never shot it but then again, we lived in a bedroom community outside of Richmond VA. Now since I have lived with Tony for the last 3o years I have become much more used to guns. We have always had at least 2 if not more. My boys were taught to shoot as small boys. They went to their first turkey shoots at age 6 (and both came home after winning a round). If you dont know what a turkey shoot is, well people meet somewhere and shoot at paper targets and whoever gets a pellet closest to the center wins a frozen turkey or ham. They are all supervised and many of them are held by local fire depts to raise money. Monkey wants to go to her first one this fall and we will take her.

    We never had play guns or BB guns. They started out with 20 gauge shotguns. Even with difficult child's guns were never an issue. They simply knew better.

    As far as this girl and the cry of rape, well I dont know the story but many women dont scream out when being raped because they are threatened not to. I would probably shoot someone if I found someone in Monkey's room on top of her. I have 3 guns in my closet right now. 2 shotguns and a rifle. One of the shotguns is kept loaded. Right now I am alone much of the time and some times for days at a time when Tony works out of town. I keep my doors locked but it would take nothing to kick in a deadbolt. Should someone actually try to come in on me, it wouldnt be pretty. I would also know if they were friend or foe because I have two dogs in the house at night. However all that said I have only had to use a gun one time...to shoot a snake I found in the yard.

    Oh and the background checks. For handguns there is a waiting period and an FBI background check. For long guns they do a background check. When Jamie bought Tony the rifle for Xmas sometime in the mid 2000's, his background check was delayed because he was in the Marines and worked as an MP. That work history flagged him and he had to wait about 3 days.
     
  19. nlj

    nlj Well-Known Member

    Living in the UK, as I do, this whole thread is completely crazy to me.
     
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  20. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Lucy, lol. I can imagine.

    Some of what you read is pretty crazy to me too.
     
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