Deal Breakers?

[Mamaof5]

If you asked your spouse, post emotional affairs, to remove his exes from his past from his facebook and he took offense to it and seemed to care more about what they think then what you think...would you call this disrespect and see it as an indication of not caring about the relationship or marriage?

It's a deal breaker for me now and I made that known 2 days ago and then he got all defensive about it and said well if I have to do that (a specific person) then I'd have to do that for all my exes. No kidding, it's not rocket science.

In the first place, he shouldn't have exes on his facebook. I don't have any on mine.

It's really hard to trust and respect him when he can't respect my wishes and needs to continue in this relationship.

 

[Steely]

It really depends on what sort of marriage you guys have. For instance I am friends with my X and there are no feeling left between us. He is on my facebook. If my boyfriend or spouse wanted me to remove him, I would think he is a little insecure and jealous, and that he doesn't trust me.

Which brings me to my next point. If in the past I had been very flirty with other men, talked for hours to my X on the phone, was sending dirty pics, or given my spouse a reason to not trust me, than that brings your question into a whole new light. Than you have a reason to think that wanting him to keep in touch with these people could be inappropriate and therefore disrespectful.

If I remember correctly your husband and you have other issues, right? The disrespect goes deeper than X's on facebook. Or am I getting you mixed up with someone else? Hugs either way....

 

[hearts and roses]

My feeling, and this has been a topic with our personal therapist, is that if he is interested in maintaining the integrity of your marriage then he would respect your wishes and remove all X's from his facebook, etc.

I believe an exh/exw is a different situation if children are involved. My ex and I are friends on facebook, but we live 150 miles apart and rarely, if ever, comment on one another's walls. My H doesn't have a problem with this at all. If my exh were a lover or person I had an emotional affair with AFTER we were married, I would respect his wishes if he asked me to remove him from my friend's list.

For me, it's about respect and consideration of your spouse's/partner's feelings. If his removing those people from his friends list helps you to feel more comfortable and trusting, then he should do it without any argument. That would show dedication to his working to keep your marriage intact and working through any issues of trust between you that may have been breached in the past.

 

[keista]

If you asked your spouse, post emotional affairs, to remove his exes from his past from his facebook and he took offense to it and seemed to care more about what they think then what you think...would you call this disrespect and see it as an indication of not caring about the relationship or marriage?

100% no doubt in my mind, YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First, I'm assuming the person refusing to remove the ex's is the same person that had the emotional affairs. in my opinion this person still does not believe that an emotional affair is a betrayal. They may be conceding to the fact, but they still don't "get it". Refusing to remove ex's from social media is an indication of this. They just don't "get" what the big deal is.

 

[Mamaof5]

Correct, he cheated on me. There is an old thread here about it (everything from phone s-x, nude pictures, video of him jerk..well yeah I can barely bring myself to say that last one it's so appalling). I, indeed asked for him to remove the exes from his facebook as a means of building my trust back up.

I feel like he's done bare minimum, band aiding work for our marriage. I'm asked for date night 9 months ago and I'm still waiting. I asked for more romanticism (love letter was the specific request, even gave him one as a way of showing him how its done and what I was looking for - the response - I could never do that - gee ...thanks). I've asked for him to share more of his feelings and communicate more with me but barely a dribble of that has happened and only when I get so flustered I explode.

It's like he wants to sweep it under the rug and go back pre-affair. He hasn't even called it an affair or cheating...just that thing that happened (so many words). I'm rather frustrated.

 

[hearts and roses]

I feel like he's done bare minimum, band aiding work for our marriage. I'm asked for date night 9 months ago and I'm still waiting. I asked for more romanticism (love letter was the specific request, even gave him one as a way of showing him how its done and what I was looking for - the response - I could never do that - gee ...thanks). I've asked for him to share more of his feelings and communicate more with me but barely a dribble of that has happened and only when I get so flustered I explode. It's like he wants to sweep it under the rug and go back pre-affair. He hasn't even called it an affair or cheating...just that thing that happened (so many words). I'm rather frustrated.

Have you tried joint counseling? He needs to get to the point of at least acknowledging what he did was wrong and a breach of trust between you and a betrayal to your promise to one another - to forsake ALL others (even if those others are virtual/on line). Until he is at that point, you cannot beging to start over. You cannot pick up where you left off - it doesn't work that way and he is in denial thinking he can. And you are participating in that charade by asking and then showing him how to write you a love letter.

I completely understand YOUR need for him to demonstrate his romantic love for you, but he can't do it for so many reasons. It could be that he's resentful of you for putting a stop to his good time. IOW, he won't cheat, but you won't control him. It's his way of (often subconsciously) punishing you and/or controlling you). It could be that he's emotionally absent from your marriage and relationship and honestly cannot see himself writing you a love letter or doing any other romantically demonstrative actions. It could be that he's gone underground with his activities and is still mentally wrapped up in that affair. There could be so many reasons why.

If you cannot get him to go to counseling, then you should go for yourself. I think I recall you saying that the town you live in has little to no services, correct? Maybe a nearby town? Maybe an online counselor - I hear they are popping up as life coaches all over the place. Hugs, and best of luck. These things take a very long time and do not repair themselves all by themself.

*I just wanted to remind you that infidelities are not usually about love. And his refusal to do any real work does not necessarily demonstrate a lack of love for you, but more likely his own insecurities.

 

[Mamaof5]

I know he hasn't gone underground because I monitor everything. He's done the brick laying for the ending of the affair. Truth about it, no contact letters, removing her from everything online (it was facebook yoville), the friends in that circle are all gone. These things I'm asking for are left overs.

What prompted my request for exes to be off is that an ex randomly sent him hugs and kisses last Thursday. He's also been using yoville behind my back (I have keyloggers, nothing bad just not respecting my request to remove the app and stop using it as he promised). This ex was a significant part of his past, in his words "the one that got away" though he now denies that he said that.

I tried counselling, it left me feeling worse off than before hand. He refuses.

 

[keista]

((((HUGS)))) I'm so sorry. I'm also sorry to say that I wouldn't call what you described as an "emotional affair". It sounds like more of a full blown out virtual affair.

My husband had one of those. Did not involve all the aspects you mentioned. *MAY* have for one night crossed over to the real world - I don't know for a fact and never will, but know the possibility for it was there. (yes, sometimes a healthy dose of denial is what we need to get through the day, so let's just let that "sleeping dog" lay). From the time it was identified to the time it 100% ended was about 6 months. Took another 6 months for husband to really get how wrong it was. Took another year for me to be able to trust him again and stop checking all of his accounts.

How long has it been for you? Is he at least giving you full disclosure - passwords to social media, IM, whatever he used?

Romanticism is not something all men can achieve. I knew this about husband and accepted it, and treasured the once a year comments that were non-traditionally romantic. (If you know country music at all kinda like "Check you for ticks" type of romantic) If he's that type of guy, you do have to accept it, BUT there are things he CAN do in place of traditional romanticism, that qualify. The simplest that comes to mind is making you dinner and lighting a candle. Shoot! It can even be barbecuing and then cozying up around a fire pit. You are looking to respark and rekindle, right? Think back to what he did when you were dating, that made you fall for him. Remind him of those things. Also, while were struggling to rebuild, I became *more* of what he needed as well as acting *more* the way I wanted HIM to act. One day I impulsively bought a bouquet of flowers for HIM. Of course, I wanted them, but presented them to HIM. To my surprise he actually teared up. No one had EVER given him flowers.

Long story short, we did get through. But our marriage still fell apart anyway. Cheating was a part of that falling apart, and I knew it the second his passwords changed and were not stored in 'cookies' whenever available.

The best advice is the good old Dear Abby gold standard. Are you better off with or without him? The answer to that question can help you better gauge how much time and effort you want to put into this.

 

[keista]

What prompted my request for exes to be off is that an ex randomly sent him hugs and kisses last Thursday. He's also been using yoville behind my back (I have keyloggers, nothing bad just not respecting my request to remove the app and stop using it as he promised). This ex was a significant part of his past, in his words "the one that got away" though he now denies that he said that.

Sorry, this isn't good. If it were just the ex, I'd suggest working through your own anxiety, BUT he's using the medium that got him in trouble, and doing it "underground" He does not seem to be taking this seriously.

I'm so sorry.

 

[Mamaof5]

He didn't respond to the hugs and kisses comment (it was xxxs and ooos) but didn't tell me about it either. What is trust building if someone is going to hide it right.

The affair was not with her, it was with some random woman from the states he met online in Yoville. However, because of this random woman from Yoville I now perceive his exes as threats to our marriage. In the tone of our marriage as it is now he should not have exes on his facebook nor should a married man be getting xxxs and ooos randomly from one.

Sorry but he was the one who put us at risk, he's the one who did what he did and made the choice that he did. He now has to earn back not only my trust but respect. I respect him as a person at this point but not as a husband. I love him but his inaction and lack of respect for my feelings on the matter are slowly chipping away at that love and dwindling it. Ever so slowly but time is like water on rocks. It may take a lot of time and a lot of small things I ask for for the health of our relationship and marriage and them not getting done or him not thinking its a big deal but time can build up and fly by if one isn't careful.

I already told him that if he doesn't meet these requests, these deal breakers then I can't stay.

I really do think he doesn't see this whole thing as much a big deal as I do. Its sad really because I've literally laid out the blueprint in how to regain my trust and to rebuild our marriage but he seems to be brushing it aside and ignoring everything, hoping it will just fade away.

We're 9 months out from what one would call D-Day (discovery day).

 

[InsaneCdn]

Side note - there may be another component to this... not explored (just occured to me).
Maybe he's afraid to re-attach to YOU, because he's afraid of losing you?
The cardiac issues, etc. - maybe there is more going on inside of him than you can possibly realize?

 

[DammitJanet]

I am not going to go into all my personal history here but yes, all ex's of any sort need to be removed if they are providing any sort of issues. They dont have to be ex spouses either...they can be ex lovers, ex people you chatted inappropriately with..etc.

Maybe get the Dr Phil book Relationships Matter and read that or get the DVD and play that.

 

[Mamaof5]

I have to, in his defense, at least tell you all what he has done to help the recovery process. When I do want to talk about the affair and ask questions. He answers all of them immediately without side stepping or diminishing it. He comforts when I cry. He's taken to telling me how good I look, how much he likes my smell and communicating the little things he notices (make up, hair done a certain way, he loves pig tails, what I do that comforts him).

He even has taken to sharing intimate details about his childhood (his thoughts on his dad I never knew about before, floored me), things he remembers about growing up he never told me before. He even cooks for me and took over the laundry too. In fact, just this past Sunday he made his all famous nacho chips with salsa and we sat down to a movie together at home. We've set a date night for the 23rd of this month (we are tightly budgeted and this is the only day we can spare some extra - he wants to go grab a bite to eat and play pool like we used to). He cut off all ties with the other person. He has patiently taken my wrath and b!tch fests about what happened.

He has sent me little one liners occasionally like mother's day and the other day in response to something I shared with him. He'll comment verbally instead of email or facebook message. Honestly, most of what's happening now is left over clean up. Oh and Im not holding my breath for date night because...well actions are louder than words and I've been waiting for 9 months for it so I don't hold high hopes for it until it actually happens.

When something does come up he seems very distant about it and cold. Like I'm a party pooper or something. I think he's still stuck in grieving the feel of the affair (how it made him feel) or what the counsellors coin as "Affair Fog".

As for cardiac issues, they started in January a little after d-day. I'm starting to wonder if he blames himself for it and maybe InsaneCdn has a point. I think he's punishing himself for the grief and remorse he feels, the shame he feels for how he hurt me. I know he's feeling a lot of shame because I complimented him the other day several times and he said he isn't really in the frame of mind for being complimented (it was a tone that said he didn't think he deserved it).

I think he's expecting me to get over it faster than what I am...he doesn't mean for that expectation to hurt me or to be disrespectful but just like I can't help feeling hurt I think he can't help what to expect and what not to expect out of all of this because he doesn't know what the norm is.

I think he's punishing himself but not realizing he's punishing me indirectly at the same time.

 

[KTMom91]

I guess I'm in the minority here...I'm not only FB friends with my first husband (not Miss KT's father), but FB friends with his current wife and his former wife (the one before me). Hubby knows and is fine with it. I think he is FB friends with a previous girlfriend, but I'm not exactly sure. We haven't had those issues in our marriage; having dealt with it in previous marriages, but in my opinion if he isn't willing to show you he can be trusted (by removing the person he had a relationship with during your marriage), then some serious counseling is in order.

 

[DammitJanet]

Mary...I think its a totally different matter. You didnt cheat on your current husband with your former husband.

Thats the difference.

Once that line is crossed...then you have to delete them. And if once a partner has cheated with someone like an ex whatever and it makes the current spouse doubt their ability to remain loyal...well...personally I think there are bigger issues than just FB or Texting programs but if the spouse asks said other spouse to rid an account of a person, the cheater should remove people. JMHO

 

[Mamaof5]

No, he never had a relationship with the ex I want removed during our marriage. It was someone else he did have an affair with but I don't think hugs and kisses should be sent randomly from an ex girlfriend from that married man's past either. It's inappropriate behavior on her part the very least and on his for hiding the fact she did send it to him (not telling me about it). Especially in the atmosphere of trying to reconcile and recover from him cheating on me.

Then me to ask for her removal and him only seeming to care about what she would think or the mutual friends would think if he did remove her. I'm sorry but he should be more concerned with what I think and feel not what some ex from his past and their mutual friends might think or feel. That's kind of like saying I care more about what they think and feel than what my wife thinks and feels.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Mamaof5 -
I think there's two sides to this...
1) Yes, given the circumstances, sensitive material has to be dealt with appropriately. He doesn't have an option on whether... only on what approach he takes to do so.
2) On the other hand... unless husband was writing you long love letters back in the early days of your relationship... I'd say you are expecting too much.

I'm married to the kind of husband many women "dream of"... but romantic? NOT. As in, absolutely-never-going-there NOT. I might get a love-note once every 2 or 3 years. Flowers? Nope. Chocolate? (oh, chocolate... well, he insists on having it in the house at all times, and insists that we only buy the good stuff.. so that doesn't count). Candle-light dinners - NO WAY, I need to enjoy the sight of the food as well as the scent and the taste. Can't even get a back rub out of the guy.

But... laundry is always in the bucket - including undoing the collar buttons on his dress shirts. Does the dishes every single day. Watches for my favorite stuff coming on sale, so we can afford to buy it. Won't buy a vehicle unless the seats "work for me" (back issues - can't sit in 75% of them). Would not consider leaving the house without saying goodby. The most considerate bloke you ever met. But not a single solitary romantic bone in his body. And no, I'm not complaining.

The point is... being "romantic" is not what makes a good husband.
Being considerate of YOU and YOUR FEELINGS, is the important part.

Just my two cents...
(we've been married over 20 years)

 

[HaoZi]

I can see several different angles on this, including being the ex or female friend that a male friend is asked to remove from his life (yes, I do actually have some ex's I get along with, lol) as well as the one that he cheated on with an ex. This is such a subjective and personal situation I don't think I could coherently comment in any one direction, but wanted to let you know that I'm thinking about you and hoping for the best for you.

 

[DammitJanet]

Oh...I thought he cheated with her.

Well...I will tell you that I say Luv ya to a whole lot of people that I hardly know. It is also really really common on the internet to sign off with xxx ooo in places.

 

[susiestar]

in my opinion what matters isn't what I think. It is what you FEEL. Clearly you feel it is a problem, so it is. Period. Doesn't matter that I don't actually care if my husband goes to dinner with any of his exes. I don't have reason to not trust him. Matter of fact, a few months after he married one of his exes invited us to dinner. I didn't go. I knew her, not when they were together, didn't dislike her but didn't find her an interesting person. They went, he came home to me, nothing wrong happened.

It was okay wtih ME. In the context fo my relationship.

in my opinion you need to force counselling. It isn't easy. He may not ever admit it helped. It probably will even if he doesn't admit it. How do I know? My mom forced my dad to go. Back in the early 80's when it was something you hid, at least where we lived. She had never threatened him with divorce, it was the first time (according to them both years later, so I believe it). My mother promises, she doesn't threaten on things like that. So they went, for months. I went maybe 2 times, gfgbro probably 6 because how he acted and they reacted was a big part of the problem. Years later, like 2 years ago, my father admitted that while he hated going, and resented it the entire time, it did make him think and he drew on what he learned back then for years. Even though he acted like a big baby about some of it (I won't, you can't make me stupid stuff), it still helped.

in my opinion if you don't get counseling TOGETHER, you are either not going to stay together or you are going to continue to be upset and it will tear at the foundation even more than the affair did. Not admitting it was a relationship is a way to minimize it and make you feel like the bad guy. You are not. Earning trust once broken is long and hard, and in my opinion this is NOT a good step for him to take. Doesn't matter that I don't care that my husband talks to his exes once in a while. It does matter that YOU have reason to distrust him, and he is again breaking your trust and not respecting you.

Period.