Dear son

[Copabanana]

The simplest answer is to quit posting so this will probably be my last post for a long time.

Well. It crossed my mind while I was at work that this might happen. Jabber. I understand this response. To always have to monitor what you say and how do say it. To feel that your son is trespassing to catch you. Who would want that? Jabber, you are always the adult in the room. I will miss you however long you will be gone. I have benefited from your counsel. Thank you.

May change my name so I'm harder to spot in the future.

Good idea, Lil. In a way it might be a good idea for some more of us. We will all recognize each other. I would recognize your voice anywhere at least through the written word. But if we periodically changed names it would add to confidentiality from outsiders, I think. Except we are all outsiders from one way of looking at things. Or once were.

He said he only snooped because we "acted so weird" and I'm sure we did.

He has exhibited absolutely no respect for you or Jabber. He snooped because he wanted to.

I agree.

Lil. You handled this as usual with grace and love. Let us see what son does. I for one believe he will benefit from this. Maybe he will begin posting and help the rest of us out.

 

[Jabberwockey]

I will miss you however long you will be gone. I have benefited from your counsel.

Thank you Copa. Its been my pleasure to help. I won't exactly be gone, just refraining from posting about our child. Unfortunately, this will also color how I respond to the posts of others. I will be minimizing things at least for a while. Unlike Lil, I refuse to change my name or start a new one.

We should always feel safe here.

And that's the reason I will have to fade out for a while. I cant feel safe posting here right now. I will still do the occasional post in the water cooler though.

 

[pasajes4]

I would not give him that much power over what I said or did. You never lied about anything in regard to your son. He owes you guys an apology for snooping. I am somewhat of the opinion, at least where mine is concerned, I would not have had anything to say if you had behaved differently. Just my 2 cents.

 

[BusynMember]

I understand.

A few people on one of the estranged sites formed a 100% private Facebook group after one persons estranged son found the site, figured out who his mom was and raised the estrangement level to the skies.

This is like an online journal. Anyone can see it...
Jabber, you added so much.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

Your son really doesn't realize just how fortunate he is... I would have been stoked to find out that my parents cared enough about me to spend so much time trying to understand and help me. Really, I would. We would all love to just be able to make our past mistakes vanish into nothingness, but that isn't how things work. Hopefully you can get your son to understand that the things you have said here were said ONLY in an attempt to understand the problem to better help him.

Still, when my aunt brings up some of the shameful I did to her and others, I get incredibly uncomfortable. I tried to ignore all of those things, but trying that only makes it worse when it is inevitably brought up. Your son feels shame, and that isn't really a bad thing. If he is embarrassed about the things you have told us here, he understands why those things were wrong. It isn't like those memories are comfortable, or happy for YOU. He doesn't bother to think about how difficult it must have been for you to come to a place full of strangers, and display your own shortcomings and ignorance. That is NEVER easy. It isn't always about him, regardless of whether or not he agrees with that. YOU exposed yourself, and told the absolute truth even when you thought it might reflect poorly on you as a person, or a parent. Which it doesn't, by the way. It demonstrates what makes you a GOOD parent, and a compassionate woman. Speaking for the first time at an NA/AA meeting was incredibly difficult for me. I was terrified, even though the people there knew NOTHING else about me. It took me over a month, and I was literally shaking as I walked up to that podium. So I know just how much bravery and strength it took for you to come here like you did. Respect. Please, don't shy away. This is for HIS benefit, even if he doesn't see that. What you're doing is a positive thing. It is the right thing.

 

[Kalahou]

Thank you Darkwing for the above post.
It is the truth ... very rightly and eloquently spoken! The truth sets us free.

 

[Lil]

I actually think a much bigger deal is being made of this than it needs to be. Fine, he found the site...he came in and asked us if there had been a problem today with him that required assistance (in a joking way). But I'm certain MY reaction was quite - I don't know, guilty? or something? and so he read our posts.

To be perfectly honest, I would have done the same thing! When I was a kid, if I found out my parents were posting on a website for "battle-weary" parents called "Conduct Disorders", I'd look to see what they said about me. As I told him, eavesdropping is a bad idea, you never know what you'll hear. Same thing. But I would have done it. And I wouldn't have even told my parents I had.

Heck Jabber, if I opened your computer (which I don't) and you had the browser open to some "marital problem" website, do you NOT think I'd talk to you? And if you just acted vague and weird about it, do you NOT think I'd look to see what was what? Well I'm sorry Honey, but unless you specifically told me not to do it, I would snoop if I had to, to find out what was going on that you were trying to hide.

As I have told my son countless times, there is nothing truly private on the internet.

He didn't have to tell us he'd seen the site you know folks. He could have just snooped and we'd never know. Just like he didn't have to leave the beer cans on the cabinet the other day. If he had the woman take them or otherwise disposed of them, we'd have never known. But he has been quite open and honest and I see that as a positive thing. In my opinion, it's much better than sneaking about and hiding things, but I seem to be the only one.

Jabber I love you more than anything on earth...but you hold a grudge. I think all he's put us through is stopping you from seeing the progress - and there IS progress. As I said, he's not there yet. But I find your lack of faith disturbing. He's working as many hours as he can at a job he loves. He's not high all the time. He seems to be broadening his group of friends...hopefully for the better. Since April, I've seen him tipsy once. He's still terrible with money. He's still moody. There are still issues there, but he is better. You're looking back at what he's been like and it makes you wait for it be happen again. I understand that, I do...He hurt you and you find that very hard to forgive and forget. But I look back and thank my lucky stars it's not like that anymore and hope it won't be again.

Maybe he's reading these words right now. So? I've never said anything on this site that wasn't true. I've said some things out of pain and anger, but the feelings were all real. It is what it is.

Frankly, I doubt he'll bother - we're pretty damn dull compared to some of you folks.

 

[PonyGirl65]

Just to add my perspective to the mix....both of my sons are well aware of this site. Heck, my youngest still refers to himself as "P C" and would sign his name that way when giving me birthday/mothers day cards LOL

Of course, back in the day, as my signature explains, we had different terms. Perfect child is how we referred to our "easy children" and we used Gift from G*d instead of "difficult child". I think it actually helped my eldest to know he was referred to as a Gift. It absolutely helped me to refer to him that way.

I do NOT know if either of my kids ever came onto this site and read things, so my situation is vastly different from yours.

But the problems in my family were never a "secret", and I never made a secret about seeking help for myself to get through those problems.

This site saved my life in those dark times. And, because of that, it saved my sons' lives, too. So nowadays, if I'm able to relate to something and contribute a few words of support or advice, it's just my way of paying it forward. I continue to reap the rewards of all the warrior parents here.

Peace

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

Dull would be an improvement for most people here, who are in a state of crisis.

 

[Lil]

Dull would be an improvement for most people here, who are in a state of crisis.

True. That was kind of a joke. But I recognize that many here have much more drastic issues than we have to deal with. There have been times I've felt like our problems were so minor in comparison we should just shut up and count our blessings.

 

[RN0441]

Honestly where I am right now I would not care if my son read what I have written on here.

I have spent too much time and energy sheltering him from our pain and discomfort dealing with the result of HIS actions. I'm not doing that anymore. I think it has had a detrimental effect. It has made him think that it's "not that bad" and it IS that bad.

I can understand that some may not want to let their adult child honestly know how they really feel and that's okay too but I'm not in that place any longer.

He will be 21 in a few weeks and I finally get it myself that he is an adult and in some ways my equal in the world. Make your life what you want it to be. That's what I have done.

 

[A dad]

True. That was kind of a joke. But I recognize that many here have much more drastic issues than we have to deal with. There have been times I've felt like our problems were so minor in comparison we should just shut up and count our blessings.

Whenever I see your posts I am thinking you are one of the parents that si dealing with a issue that plagues your country and that is young adults that refuse to grow up. Because ia so common you might think its not so big of a problem.

 

[BusynMember]

its not common. In the U.S. kids are brought up to be independent. Some adults use drugs instead or cant seem to launch for other reasons, but most are eager to leave the nest. Even my autistic son works and lives alone.

You are reading about the minority. The majority dont need to post here. All my kids were out and laujched by 21 and it did not seem unusual...there is peer pressure to move out as well. Especially with boys, it can really stunt your dating life if you live at home at older ages and have no job. Young women in the U.S. are not looking for this in a partner. Especially as the young man is hitting 25 and is still at home and jobless, it is not widely seen as okay in our society.

 

[susiestar]

I truly hope that neither of you back away from the site. You both add so much and are vital parts of our community here. Lil and Jabber's Son, I hope you can see this as what it is, your parents truly loving you and wanting to be the best parents for you & seeking help because they need it to be the parents that you need.

Jabber, PLEASE don't leave. Dads are not as common here and we NEED them to get a well rounded view of situations. I hope you know how we value your contributions and don't want to see you go. We understand you wanting to go, but we need you and value you.

Sorry for any typos, I am using my old laptop that doesn't have working L &o keys. I have to go back and paste them in, but that tells you how badly I felt this needed to be said.

 

[in a daze]

But I recognize that many here have much more drastic issues than we have to deal with. There have been times I've felt like our problems were so minor in comparison we should just shut up and count our blessings.

 

[in a daze]

Oops, I hit reply too fast.

I feel like this, too.

But until they are sober, self supporting, and their mental health issues are under control, we will remain here, supporting others as they support us.

This supportive, all inclusive atmosphere keeps me coming back to this forum.

Everything is on a continuum, and our difficult children inhabit different places on the continuum.

 

[in a daze]

and there IS progress. As I said, he's not there yet. But I find your lack of faith disturbing. He's working as many hours as he can at a job he loves. He's not high all the time. He seems to be broadening his group of friends...hopefully for the better. Since April, I've seen him tipsy once. He's still terrible with money. He's still moody. There are still issues there, but he is better.

My cousin the social worker, who I have a great deal of respect for ( her sister is mentally ill and an addict, and I have seen her walk the walk as well as talk the talk) told me that watching these young adults with issues is....like.....Watching. Paint. Dry. That's my experience with my son.
.
.

I think you're right. He has made progress. But it's never in a straight line. It's two steps forward, one step backwards for these guys.

 

[susiestar]

As far as if your problem is worse than anothers, I have yet to see anyone quantify that. Sometimes we might feel that way, but others don't when they read and answer. If it is a problem for you, it is a problem for us.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Both my kids know about this site. I spent so much of my life here, and changed so much from coming here. My son, especially, hated this site, but I needed it so. I agree that it was less insulting for the kids to hear "P C" and Gift From God ~ and those terms changed how I saw the kids too, a little bit. What the kids will read Lil and Jabber, if they read here, is that we love them. That might be the most welcome and surprising thing our so self-centered children will learn.

That we love them enough to be on this site.

If we've posted something we regret, well, we've all had those days when everything seemed impossibly dark. We are parents. We get to feel resentful or make mistakes or post things that seem so private, but that we cannot know how to do our best parenting through without help.

Darkwing, a sensitive, beautiful post, as usual.

Lil and Jabber, when my family was going through what we came through, we all already knew we didn't know how to handle what was happening to us. Whether I was on an anonymous internet support site was the last thing any of us were worrying about. My children are doing beautifully now, and I have come through it, too. That's what matters. Your son will have seen as well the incredible support both you and he have received from all of us, and the prayers, and the way we love him a little bit, too. And root for him when he is doing well and heartily disapprove when he isn't.

This is a good site.

You are good people.

Jabber, I will miss you too, though I am hardly here anymore. You will never know how that Monty Python clip helped me. Or how funny the Scotsman jokes were, or the little man in the garden ~ I never pass that tree and those gnomes without thinking of you.

And your socks.

And Lil, if we lose you, and you are not here with us anymore, know that I think of you every Christmas when I make baklava, and that how I found the recipe is part of the story of Christmas for my far flung family. And remember the pirate skirt?!?

That was the first time I saw Jabber's socks.



We needed one another, we parents. We didn't just dis our kid. We laughed and we cried and we prayed together and I think we will never forget one another. It's been good, and in time, I hope you both feel comfortable posting again.

So fondly,
Cedar

 

[Childofmine]

Whenever I see your posts I am thinking you are one of the parents that si dealing with a issue that plagues your country and that is young adults that refuse to grow up. Because ia so common you might think its not so big of a problem.

I think you are correct a dad. Many so many of today's kids are slow to launch. Many factors contribute to this---fewer children in a family, so parents have more resources to give each child (guilty), the baby boomer-too precious child mentality (guilty), access to drugs/alcohol/pills, less strict discipline in families (guilty), less faith-based teaching/spirituality/church/something greater than me, new data on late brain development (nothing we can control here), genetic disposition to addiction...on and on. So many variables. I have spent SO MUCH TIME analyzing this, as I tried to figure Difficult Child out and "Where I went wrong...".

The end result is a whole lot of today's young adults launching much much later for a whole bunch of reasons---PCs and DCs---meaning we parents have to shoulder the "burden" much much longer than we ever imagined.

I do think there is SOMETHING to the aging out factor. As I have so often told this story (and yes, I'm going to tell it again), the sheriff's deputy at the workhouse where Difficult Child was jailed one time (one of 8 or 9 times in jail) told me: Oh, he's 23...well you have about three or four more years to go? I said, desperate for some answers, What? She said, oh yes, many of them "get it" once they are 26 or 27 and we don't see them again. I said: You promise? And we both laughed, me wryly.

There is something to many of our kids getting older (brain development, whatever). I know not all of them "get it" as they age. I know that. But many seem to.

That is hopeful.

I think our country will swing back to a less permissive parenting style as well...I look back now on some of my parenting principles and I shudder at myself. Come on, now, I think. Really? But I did the best I could at the point I was at, at that time. Now I know better, and I would do better, were I to do it all over again. Not the command and control strong arm of my father, but a more direct, firm, no-nonsense parenting with very swift consequences. I explained way way way too much. Way too much talking, I did. I was trying to be different from my father.

Sigh. We live and learn.